I changed accounts.
Actually, reading down to the note, I would disagree that it's a Western-specific trope. That doesn't make sense. Hell, even the name is misleading. It's supposed to be a kind of "superpower," and yet a Badass Normal qualifies. It's just an excuse to have a trope exclusively for the comic book-style heroes...
And once again, a character-type cannot be genre-specific. Most Common Superpower is a character attribute. Dark Magical Girl is a character type.
edited 13th Sep '11 3:56:38 PM by USAF713
I am now known as Flyboy.
Just found Evil Counterpart. But these examples aren't exactly black Evil, they're grey, Anti-Hero, Anti-Villain and/or manipulated into being evil.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
You missed the beginning of that sentence. The bit that says that the mutant, alien and Amazon have to be superheroes or supervilians.
I changed accounts.
I'm opening a TRS thread to keep that out of this one...
I am now known as Flyboy.
Cure Candy
usually yes and looking on Evil Counterpart page alot of the ones on this page are there already. The conflicted or used as a tool ones too. confusing...
edited 13th Sep '11 4:36:29 PM by Raso
Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
I changed accounts.
So, explain how a (Dark) Magical Girl is Japanese-fiction specific. Couldn't a person do a story in a Western-style with a character who still hits the functional qualifications of the character type and still have it be a Magical Girl story?
No character type is specific to any type, medium, or genre.
edited 13th Sep '11 5:09:39 PM by USAF713
I am now known as Flyboy.
Cure Candy
Magical Girl genre itself is not strictly Japanese it has been copied by Italians and its popular in Europe. Any actual usage of a Magical Girl is a reference or Shout-Out to it.
From the Magical girl page
- From Italy,Winx Club, Pop Pixie W.I.T.C.H., and Angels Friends; there is also the French Sky Dancers and Canadian Trollz.
We have been working on Magical Girl page to define the genre and the Magical Girl herself which would be
- Magical Girl,
- Magical Girl Warrior,
- Dark Magical Girl
- and the old style Cute Witch which it evolved from but not limited to.
The western examples do not follow the character type.
edited 13th Sep '11 5:21:23 PM by Raso
Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
I'm willing to entertain the idea that the qualities of Dark Magical Girl might actually be tied in with something broader and more generic. I'm considering it an open question for now. But it is incredibly recurring in the Magical Girl genre and we need to clean up exactly what it means in that context before we can really make that comparison.
As for the definition of Magical Girl itself, see that thread. In its modern form, it's a distinct Sub-Trope of female Super Hero and Henshin Hero, it originated in anime/manga and Japan is where it's the most popular.
edited 13th Sep '11 6:02:47 PM by Elle
Cure Candy
Well we just had a discription repair shop which made it shorter but didn't do any example clean up. Probably need to remove the maybes on some stuff.
Inevitably, the Dark Magical Girl will fight the Magical Girl as her Evil Counterpart or Shadow Archetype, and often as The Dragon or the Dark Chick of the Big Bad. It's usually because she wants approval from the Big Bad as a parental figure, or she's jealous of everything the heroine has that she does not. And she doesn't want the Magical Girl's pity.
She's also faster, smarter, and more ruthless. Don't be surprised if she often wins fights against the MG, who only survives because the DMG is holding back. (Something she may not do, when she gets more and more frustrated as time goes by.) The MG is also desperate not to hurt the DMG, and usually wants to save her from her inner darkness.
Eventually the MG will reach a level of skill to face her. But it's not enough... she has to get through and let the DMG know that she is a lovable person, and that they can be friends, and that the DMG doesn't have to be alone anymore. ...but she has to beat the tar out of her too.
Yes, the DMG almost always gets converted to the Good Guys. After this, despite pyrotechnics, the ultimate battle against the Big Bad (which the ex-DMG joins in) is almost anti-climactic.
Afterwards, the ex-DMG is loyal to the MG almost to the point of being Schoolgirl Lesbians. They rarely get depowered a la Good Is Dumb and will be an equal partner to the hero or heroine (often knocking the other characters down a rank). She'll be the equal or above in physical attacks and is less naive, but will recognize that the MG is the one with the emotional power. (After all, she witnessed that personally.)
Younger Dark Magical Girls tend to be Little Miss Badasses (and at least something of the Elegant Gothic Lolita; see below), even if just a Cute Witch. If a Magical Girl Warrior, she's frequently a Lady of War.
One common way of noting the Dark Magical Girl is her outfit is usually slightly more fetishy (purples versus the usual white, stylized 'undergarments' versus normal lace), which might explain why a Heel–Face Turn doesn't always mean a switch in costume.
Not to be confused with the Black Magician Girl or especially the Dark Action Girl (since the latter is almost, but not quite, exactly unlike the DMG).
It should also be noted that, despite being called the Dark Magical Girl, it is not rare to see a Spear Counterpart, especially in video games. In that case, expect a large amount of Bad Ass mixed in with the Dark Magical Boy in question's personality as well, and it isn't unlikely he's a protagonist, in which case the Dark Is Not Evil aspect is always emphasized. Sub trope of Anti-Villain.
Old one
A Dark Magical Girl's greatest fear isn't monsters, or magical threats from beyond time and space. No, her greatest fear overshadows all of those things.
Her greatest fear is to be alone.
Normal Magical Girls have a good relationship with their family members, they make friends at school—they may be a little dim, but that's okay, and this all translates into the magical ability to defend what they love from external threats.
A Dark Magical Girl doesn't have that. For her, Parental Abandonment is not funny or convenient. Her parents are absent at best and abusive at worst, and though she's smart, she can't understand why her life has turned out as it has. She doesn't have real friends or exploits past the academic (if she goes to school). This is because she either doesn't know how to communicate socially, or she's already lost her friends, and wants to avoid making new ones, the loss of which will just bring her further pain. If she seems outwardly creepy, it's another unfortunate reason people avoid her, which only leads to her being further perceived as evil or otherwise abnormal.
She often acts as The Dragon or the Dark Chick to the Big Bad, who she may crave approval from as a parental figure. Inevitably, the Dark Magical Girl will fight the Magical Girl, acting as her Evil Counterpart or Shadow Archetype, her motivation being acknowlegment from the Big Bad or jealousy of everything the heroine has that she does not. She doesn't want the Magical Girl's pity, but the MG usually tries to reach out to her and gain her friendship regardless. The DMG almost always gets converted to the good guys by the end. Once this happens most Dark Magical Girls tend to be fiercely loyal to the Magical Girl heroine.
The abilities of the Dark Magical Girl are often the polar opposite to the Magical Girl. She is also usually faster, smarter, and more ruthless then the MG, making her the primary obstacle to the MG's triumph. Younger Dark Magical Girls tend to be Little Miss Badasses, even if they are a Cute Witch. If she is a Magical Girl Warrior, she's frequently a Lady of War. One common way of signalling a Dark Magical Girl is her outfit is usually slightly more fetishy and dark, which might explain why a Heel–Face Turn doesn't always mean a switch in costume.
The Dark Magical Girl is a subtrope of Anti-Villain. Not to be confused with the Black Magician Girl or especially the Dark Action Girl (who is quite different).
New one.
edited 13th Sep '11 6:04:28 PM by Raso
Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Oh...I forgot. The description is *really* lousy about saying just what the dark magical girl is. It goes on about her being lonely and tormented, and her role in the story, there's nothing that can be boiled down to a laconic version. That's certainly contributing to misuse even if we permit non Magical Girl examples.
Rabid Fujoshi
Characters who are The Rival+Evil Counterpart+Shadow Archetype of the Main Character are highly likely to: A) be killed/imprisoned forever after loosing a fight with the main Character, or B)after loosing a fight with the main character, perform a Heel–Face Turn, sometimes after being an Aloof Ally for a while.
Basically one of these two things happens 99.999% of the time. That's probably what you're thinking of. We kind of have the different aspects of this scattered over different tropes and pages.
edited 13th Sep '11 6:19:07 PM by NoirGrimoir
SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
Also, the Laconic is horrific.
Wow, that's bad.
To clarify something from earlier in the thread - do we have a trope currently for what most of the misuse seems to be?
Evil Counterpart is close, but not quite right.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
@ #32: Nobody is saying Dark Magical Girl is exclusive to Japanese media.
Just that it is pretty well exclusive to Magical Girl series and/or shows that are parodying or referencing Magical Girl shows.
For example, the Dark Magical Girl shows up in Megatokyo a western webcomic- but it directly references the Magical Girl genre.
Those examples Raso listed are all bad. Is there really anyone disputing that?
edited 13th Sep '11 7:08:41 PM by Sackett
Rabid Fujoshi
Er, I would definitely argue that Winx Club and such are definitely magical girl, if that's what you're asking.
edited 13th Sep '11 7:03:55 PM by NoirGrimoir
SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
Don't think so, Sackett. This is rare outside of Japanese media soley because Magical Girls are rare outside Japanese media. But apparently Europe has embraced the genre. Although we are trying to figure out if we need a new trope for the misuse, or if it belongs in an existing trope or what.
Also, new Laconic:
Yes, that's what I'm saying. A Dark Magical Girl can appear in that kind of show.
She's not going to appear in a normal Buffy The Vampire Slayer episode. Unless they decide to do a Magical Girl parody/reference episode.
Huh... What are you talking about? That's what I just said. Dark Magical Girl isn't exclusive to Japanese media. It's exclusive to Magical Girl series.
Edited my previous post to make it clear who I'm responding too.
edited 13th Sep '11 7:09:04 PM by Sackett
Rabid Fujoshi
My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic actually has one: Princess Luna
Yeah, I'd say it's Magical Girl genre specific, not Japan-specific, it's just the Magical Girl genre was practically invented in Japan, if not actually invented.
edited 13th Sep '11 7:13:24 PM by NoirGrimoir
SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
Cure Candy
Thats a remnant when the studio wanted a Magical Girl show... notice how she never shows up again in the series (IIRC) Creator Fiat! But yes she would be this.
edited 13th Sep '11 7:12:19 PM by Raso
Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Rabid Fujoshi
(OMG, new season starts this week!)
Supposedly Luna is supposed to be in the upcoming season.
MLP is still magical girl, just...with ponies, and kind of unusual in that it's slice of life? Whatever, all I know is it's awesome.
edited 13th Sep '11 7:14:10 PM by NoirGrimoir
SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
I think that there is a supertrope which would be something like
Someone (usually a girl) has a twisted relationship with the villain. While being in the bad camp, this person isn't actually evil but desire so much to be loved by the villain that she will perform questionable action for him/her/it. In idealistic story, that person is converted to the good camp with true love/untwisted caring, or simply by knowing what and who they are helping. In cynical ones, that person ended up dead because of her initial errors. Their are a Shadow Archetype to one of the protagonist, frequently to The Hero.
So... are we done here?
We have a new description.
Do we still need a clean up of examples?
What's left to do?
That's not a new-for-this-thread new description, that's the previous rewrite attempt.
(Rewrite moving to next page so people actually see it)
edited 2nd Oct '11 5:28:14 PM by Elle
Evil Counterpart? but thats so broad and arbitrary right now its not even funny.
edited 13th Sep '11 3:55:53 PM by Raso
Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!