Description doesn't match usage: The Ace

The description of The Ace says that it's a minor character who is essentially a parody of The Hero, being so ridiculously heroic that it's Played for Laughs. Most wicks use it as "In-Universe Memetic Badass", and most examples seem to fit the latter definition better than the former as well. We already have Comically Invincible Hero, which seems to capture what The Ace's description is about pretty well. I'd suggest rewriting the description of The Ace to match its usage and shifting its old description onto Comically Invincible Hero.

edited 13th Aug '11 9:41:28 AM by NativeJovian

I could have sworn we did this already. Anyway, support.

Apparently, the trope is named after Ace Rimmer from Red Dwarf, who is an example of this kind of character. That's right, it's not using the common meaning of the word "ace"; it's a character-named trope. A minor character, at that.

The mind boggles. Support.

edited 13th Aug '11 10:36:57 AM by DoktorvonEurotrash

Support. The Ace is a pilot who's good at his job; Ace Rimmer is a parody of that trope.

Previous threads on this trope, for the interested.

The Ace is not required to be a pilot; that's for the actual Ace Pilot. The word "ace" on its own has the definition of "a very skilled person; expert; adept", which more or less agrees with the trope's usage.

I do, however, request that the trope be renamed from "The Ace" to remove the inherent implication that there's supposed to be one and only one such character, as well as making it more comptabile with sentences whose very context makes using the definitive article quite less awkward (i.e. talks about "an Ace", rather than "the Ace"); Amazing Ace would be my suggestion for an alternative, which would fit nicely with Broken Ace.

edited 13th Aug '11 8:41:09 PM by MarqFJA

Support.

@Post 3:Wait, what?!

Support. Big time.

The Whatever is a pretty accepted method naming scheme for character archetype tropes. The Lancer, The Aloner, The Chew Toy, etc. I don't think The Ace needs to be any different.

But it's not following that naming scheme. See post 3; this is a character-named trope.

No its not... that name is named after the concept... look at the 100 other people named Ace, like Ace Hardlight from Ratchet And Clank, Ace Azzameen in X-Wing Alliance a former The Ace, any Ace Pilot ect.

edited 14th Aug '11 12:07:57 AM by Raso

Ace Rimmer may have been the character in mind when the original poster came up with this trope, but the character has that name because of its association with this kind of trope. It's not like something like The Mario, where "Mario" as the trope defines it exists only because of the character; Ace Rimmer's name is a consequence of the trope, not a cause. (Did that make sense?)

The Ace as written is a trope that I've seen everywhere and I can't say I've personally noticed abuse. I'd like a wick check.

If we pretty much harvest the entire page and transfer it (minus non-applicable examples) to Comically Invincible Hero, then I suppose I might support if you can prove misuse.

I know, but the trope is modelled on Ace Rimmer (the character who's so perfect, it's comedic). If the trope followed the general concept of an "ace", it wouldn't have the "comedy" element to it.

• And Then What?: Potholed to a character named Starbuck on the original 1980s Battlestar Galactica. Not familiar with the character, but looking at the series page, Starbuck is listed as an Ace Pilot, which seems to suggest "awesome badass" not "heroic parody". Probably misuse.
• Beginner's Luck: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha, talks about how badass the title character is. Misuse.
• Ferris Buellers Day Off: Refers to the title character. Misuse.
• GI Joe The Rise Of Cobra: Refers to a main character. Misuse.
• Hammers Slammers: Vague, but appears to refer to a main character. Probably Misuse.
• Kaichou Wa Maid Sama: Refers to a main character. Misuse.
• Let's Get Dangerous!: Refers to a character's father from Aaahh Real Monsters. Used correctly!
• M*A*S*H: No explanation. Unknown.
• Or My Name Isn't...: Refers to a character from Tale Spin; appears to be more Miles Glorious than The Ace, but I'm not familiar enough with the source material to tell.
• Pokemon Anime Current Main Cast: Vague, but appears correct.
• Run Fat Boy Run: Main character. Misuse.
• Screw the Rules, I'm Beautiful!: Saturday Night Live skit, appears correct.
• Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy: Main character. Misuse.
• You Dont Mess With The Zohan: Main character. Misuse.
• Academy Of Superheroes: Vague, but appears to be a main character, so probably misuse.

That's 15 wicks, of which 7 are definitely misuse, 4 more probably are, 3 are correct, and 1 has no context. That's a pretty bad record.

(Incidentally, I kept checking pages in The Ace's "related to" subpage, only to find no instance of The Ace on that page. What gives with that?)

edited 14th Aug '11 12:28:46 PM by NativeJovian

Thank you. I think that's pretty decisive.

Favor trope transplant to what" Ace" really means a "very skilled person" or "very skilled person in a lot of things" but not a Mary Sue (although it would probably be on the Mary Sue Index) to match up with Broken Ace. (most of the wicks point to that anyway)

Amazing Ace would be a good name for it if we wanted to ditch The Ace.

This trope wouldn't be Comically Invincible Hero though. Like Seta from Love Hina is good at a lot of things from Martial Arts (kicking Motoko ass all the time when she fights him), Archeology etc and it's funny. he is looked up to by Keitaro, and Keitaro takes all these qualities too... however Seta just sucks at romance (the focus of the story).

If it really was just using Ace whatever as a trope namer..... This might be the worst trope name in the history of TV Tropes....

edited 14th Aug '11 12:57:32 PM by Raso

Add Mahou Sensei Negima, where the resident Ace of Class 2/3-A is far from a minor character or a parody. Of course, one can argue that Jack Rakan is a parody of sorts of Amazing Ace - or a subverted parody.

Yeah, Mary Sue is often an Amazing Ace - its practically a requirement for God-Mode Sue - but most Amazin Aces outside of fanfic OCs aren't Mary Sues.

edited 14th Aug '11 12:57:01 PM by MarqFJA

In the history of TV Tropes? "The Catapult Turtle Flying Castle Gambit," "Are They Still On Namek?," and "Push Pop Plot" were better trope names than The Ace?

I stand by my earlier remark that I don't think this is a character-named trope, or at least not in the same way as The Mario, The Aragorn, et al.

Unsure on what that last one is but the other two... yes they are better than this if this was named and modeled after that character... This trope does not mean what Ace means.

You of course mean the current description doesn't match up with the title.

It doesn't match up with what the trope is being used for as well.

The Ace should be about The Star Player basically he is damn good at whatever and others see it as such. Maybe as a rival or has Fan Girls or such. He might end up the Big Brother Mentor only to become The Obiwan or Broken Ace. The more extreme version when they are good at many things. (IE Chao in Negima)

It is not a Mary Sue but it is a symptom of one if not done well though Character Development, Killed Off for Real, Out of Focus, Face–Heel Turn, Said thing not being the focus of the series or personality quirks and/or flaws.

Can it be comedic? Sometimes but that is very YMMV.

edited 14th Aug '11 5:54:17 PM by Raso

I've always been of the opinion that this is a pretty bad title, but the worst in TV Tropes history? Not by a long shot. Those other names are far worse then this.

Not that this is particularly relevant, as it's a poor name regardless of whether it's the "worst" name. I'm just feeling pretty short-tempered towards hyperbole after coming from the Internet Backdraft thread.

On a more on-topic note, does Amazing Ace really get across the sense that this character type (that is, the one in the current description) is Played for Laughs? I'm not sure it does, and since that's what a large amount of the misuse seems related to, it might not be that good a replacement.

edited 14th Aug '11 5:39:35 PM by nrjxll

Or we could just follow the Mary Sue trend and call it Parody Ace.

That would require that we have an "Ace" Super-Trope to parody in the first place.

Sorry, yes, I meant after making The Ace supertrope. Or reformating the existing one or whatever.