trope transplant (alt-title crowner added Sept 29): Career Killers

Career Killers is a pretty simple enough trope, but for some reason someone has decided to base the trope description around a supposed dichotomy between two types of Career Killers. I don't think this is true or helpful. With such a general trope like Career Killers, there are all sorts of different characterizations possible. Trying to reduce all characters into A or B is silly and often inaccurate. A lot of the examples that I'm seeing don't fit with the way each type is defined. Can we wipe out this dichotomy theory and let each example stand on its own characterization?

The name seems to be used these days for works that end careers. Why not call this trope "Hitman" or Professional Killer?

edited 13th Aug '11 12:20:19 AM by DragonQuestZ

I think these are two common ways for the trope to be used, and while I don't feel they need to be split off altogether, there's nothing wrong with making note of them. However, if the page is saying that all Career Killers are either "Assassins" or "Hitmen", then that should be eliminated. They're common takes on the trope, but not the only way it can be used.

Edit: I didn't even think about that, but it's a good point - this seems like it should be part of the Genre-Killer - Franchise Killer snowclone family, but it's not. Not sure if it's actually being used that way, though.

edited 13th Aug '11 12:23:15 AM by nrjxll

This title really should be a redirect to Creator Killer.

I want to see misuse before backing a rename, because I think the current name is clear and witty. I'm aware that there's another meaning of "career killer", but it never occurred to me to confuse the two.

I agree that the two common sub-variants are worth discussing, but shouldn't limit the trope.

I think this is a more common definition of the term outside the wiki than "something that ends someone's career."

edited 13th Aug '11 10:09:12 AM by INUH

Yeah, I've only seen it used—both on and off the wiki—as "Someone who's career is killing." If there's been actual misuse for the other thing, then we can think about it, but otherwise I don't see any problem.

Outside of T Vtropes, the common meaning of "career killer" is "something that destroys your career", as easily confirmed by just googling the term.

Inside T Vtropes, the common meaning of "<foo> killer" is something that destroys a reputation, as evidenced by e.g. Creator Killer, Genre-Killer, and Franchise Killer. This trope sounds like it's similar, but it's not.

So the name is unclear and problematic on both counts, and we can't even justify this by Rule of Funny since it's not a humorous or punny name.

Thankfully, the trope already has a perfectly serviceable redirect: "Assassin", which is precisely what the trope is about. Since swapping a trope with its redirect is not a big deal, let's do it.

Outside of TV Tropes, the term is used the way we do 90% of the time when referring to people!! It's a common English phrase with two meanings, both widely known and accepted, and we're using one of those meanings.

It's nowhere near as potentially misleading as Human Resources, which nobody seems to be objecting to in its TRS thread. Like Human Resources, it is actually based on the everyday meaning of the words in question, and makes perfect sense, even if there is another meaning. Plus its mildly amusing because of the double meaning, which is always a bonus.

If this were actively confusing or wrong, I would jump on the rename bandwagon, but I see no evidence that it's either. For obviously bad names, I don't insist on a misuse check, but this is not obviously bad. This is a common and standard use of a common and standard term.

Google proves you wrong. This may be how you personally use the term, but it's not how people on the internet in general use the term. The very first page, for example, shows that NBC, Huffington Post, and Tech Republic all use the term for "something that destroys your career", and not for "assassin".

None of those examples are referring to people. That's why I said, "when referring to people".

edited 13th Aug '11 10:51:03 AM by Xtifr

Google is not infallible. It's been demonstrated numerous times that two people can google the exact same term and get wildly varying results, or that one person can google the same thing several different times and get wildly different results.

Xtifr makes a very good point: "Career killer" can be used to refer to either a person or a thing. If it's used to refer to a person, it's overwhelming used the way our page uses it; if it's referring to a thing, it's equally overwhelming used the way we use it in the rest of the "X killer" tropes.

That said, this is an ambiguity that we can't solve. It exists in the outside world, and it's too big for one site to make go away.

For this reason, I suggest that

1. we change the name of the character supertrope to Professional Killer, and
2. make Career Killer a dismbiguation page that explains that it can be used either way and points to Professional Killer if you're looking for the person and to Creator Killer, Genre-Killer, Franchise Killer, and Star-Derailing Role if you're looking for a work that destroyed someone's career.

{ETA: Add Star Derailing Role}

edited 14th Aug '11 7:58:58 AM by Madrugada

Support Foxxy Mod.

Works for me.

Nthing Madrugada's suggestion as well as removing the assassin / hit man dichotomy.

Besides high - class professional assasins and lowly hit men, other types of Career Killers:

• Less sympathetic, usually range from Complete Monster to Punch-Clock Villain:
  • A member of a Quirky Miniboss Squad whose main role in the Generic Evil Organization Squad is to quietly dispose of any Mauve Shirts who get too close to the Big Bad or The Masquerade. Not necessarily a 2 - dimensional hit man or a high class assassin; can be The Brute or The Dragon.
  • A "Professional Terrorist" who makes bombs for pay rather than out of a devotion to the cause.
• More sympathetic, typically range from a Dragon with an Agenda to a Knight in Sour Armor:
  • Private Military Contractors who happen to specialize in particularly "dangerous" operations - particularly dangerous to their employer's enemies' mooks, that is.
  • A character who is a professional killer because their only other choice is retirony or a slow death from a preexisting medical condition at the hands of their employer.

edited 5th Sep '11 1:41:31 PM by FrodoGoofballCoTV

I don't think that we can justify a rename unless we can demonstrate misuse. That said, adding some redirects like Hit Man (which currently goes to the video game series) or Professional Killer wouldn't be a bad idea.

edited 5th Sep '11 5:16:29 PM by NativeJovian

Sure we can. It's wide open to confusion. We done have to wait until it's a mess to do something to prevent the mess from happening in the first place.

Doesn't seem to meet the Trope Renaming Guidelines, does it? Plenty of wicks and inbounds, it's not completely nonsensical, and there doesn't seem to be widespread misuse.

The "we need to fix it quick before people start to misuse it" argument seems particularly weak for a trope that's existed for a long time without noticable misuse. If this were a brand new trope, I might find the argument persuasive, but this isn't a new trope, and, as it turns out, the name seems to be working fine, despite what I might have tghought. So, I'm forced to consider this a case of it ain't broke; don't "fix" it.

I agree, there's no need for a rename (though of course Redirects Are Free). I do support eliminating the assassin/hitman dichotomy, however.

Career Killer Work?

Redirects Are Free I suppose.

I'm always a big fan of searchable redirects! Not only are they free, but they've made my life easier on numerous occasions.

I would prefer to go with this plan.

Yes, it would definitely improve the trope if this was renamed. T Vtropes is not a formal place; if we can improve something by renaming it, we don't need an Official Policy Page to allow us to do so. We just need a discussion (here) and a group of tropers who agree (also here).

It ain't broke, so "fixing" seems like the opposite of smart. At best, things will barely change; at worst, we kill its popularity, incomings drop off, the site loses money and Fast Eddie gets mad. Oh, and it somehow sets off World War III and makes bunnies cry and wakes Great Cthulhu where he lies sleeping in lost R'lyeh.

I admit it may not seem likely, but do you really want to take the chance? :)