Cut list of hentai from article for being unnecessary?: Hentai

Does an entire list of hentai publications/videos/etc need to be on that page? Seriously, we have a Porn Tropes *index*, but it doesn't list every single work of pornography ever created (or even notable works of pornography in detailed index form) Not asking out of Family Friendly or anything but simply because the page being basically hentai recs when it would be far better and more succinct as just a definition of the term and what it is... kind of looks almost as bad on us as Fetish Fuel did. We don't need a categorized list of hentai on a definition page... IMO anyway.

I need to make a crowner but can't seem to make it work???

edited 3rd Jun '11 4:36:03 AM by AGroupie

I think it has a list because Hentai tends to have a plot more often than western porn.

Generally you try to discuss it a little before you make a crowner. Sometimes a crowner isn't necessary.

Good point.

It might look a little cleaner if we split off the list of works onto a separate page.

Making a list of hentai subpage seems simplest. Keeps the main page concise.

Yeah. Let's make a Hentai Index, List Of Hentai or something like that.

If we make a new page/index, do we need to YKTTW it?

Western Pornographic works do have an index of their own, at Explicit Content. Hentai is a sub-index of that, as is its sister-genre, H-Games.

Hentai, like Pornography, is a genre of works, and many of those works have pages on this site. There is no good reason not to have an index for those types of works since, as pieces of fiction, they are just as valid uses of tropes for the purposes of this site as any other. The only reason not to index them is sheer prudery, which should not be a concern for us, especially when it gets in the way of the wiki's mission.

As Madrugada stated when objections were raised in the Explicit Content YKTTW: "Indexes are tools. Indexing simply makes searching for related pages easier. It makes no moral judgment on what's being indexed. The fact that you personally don't like a type of work is not a valid reason to not index it. "

edit: As far as splitting the work index portion off to the second page is concerned, it's doable but in my opinion redundant. Keep in mind that the article was originally created as a work listing, the related tropes were only added in later.

edited 5th Jun '11 11:12:51 AM by Meeble

There are some genre pages where we split the genre tropes from the genre examples on a different page, for example Comedy and Comedy Tropes, or Superhero and Superhero Tropes, but these are all awfully long trope lists, that are simply uncomfortable to have on the same page.

Most of the time, it is not necessary, there are only 1-2 page lenghts of tropes, and the rest of the page is for work examples, like Film Noir, Harem Genre, or Real-Time Strategy.

And even if we decide that Hentai falls into the former category rather than the latter, it would make more sense to follow the format, and keep Hentai as the page with the work list, and split off Hentai Tropes.

For the record (and a bit confusingly), Explicit Content lists all works with, well, explicit content, not just pornography/erotica. For example, American Gods is listed because it contains a few explicit sex scenes, but nobody would call it a pornographic novel.

Anyways, theoretically, we could have a Porn movies page, dsecribing porn movies, and ending in a list of porn. The only reason why we dont have it is that we wouldn't find enough notable entries.

(Notable in the sense, that at least someone would bother to remember their names, list them, and maybe make work pages for some of them.)

Bump.

Very much against cutting.

However Hentai Genre would work (co-exist with H-Game and others.) Although you would have to copy and past the entire thing so much so that Hentai the page would be pretty much a Redirect to Hentai Genre. or its cleaner little brother Ecchi.

edited 27th Jun '11 10:32:29 AM by Raso

Actually, if we would really need to split, it would make more sense to keep the Hentai genre at the Hentai page, and split off Hentai Tropes, to follow the format.

E.g.:We don't have Comedy with a list of Comedy tropes, and then a separate "Comedy Genre" for Comedy works.

We have Comedy for works that are in the Comedy genre, and then a separate "Comedy Tropes" for the tropes.

It makes more sense that way. Comedy, and Hentai are, by definition, genres. It's obvious that a page about a genre will hold the work examples of the genre.

edited 27th Jun '11 12:31:20 PM by EternalSeptember

That would work.

I remember that the Hentai index was made in the first place so tropers had a place to list off hentai titles without having to put them on the Anime or Pornography indexes. It helps further separate them apart so people know what is what. I think it's fine as is.

As a genre of works, it makes sense that we would have the works listed on the main Hentai article.

I think the proposal to move the trope listing to Hentai Tropes is the most sensible, however I question how much of them are really "Hentai Tropes" and how much are "Tropes that some believe are commonly found in Hentai".

Thats what every ____Tropes Index page is.

edited 28th Jun '11 6:18:18 AM by Raso

Well, the reason I mentioned that is because most "X" Tropes indexes contain tropes that are directly relavent to the core genre. Horror Tropes are pretty much all related to horrific situations in some form.

While most of the sex related tropes on the Hentai listing would be relevant, there are also tropes like Romantic Comedy, Genre-Busting, Karma Houdini, Villain Protagonist, and so on that (while I'm certain those things do appear in some Hentai works) are not a core part of the genre. Labelling those as "Hentai Tropes" would be a bit of a stretch.

However, if we remove that kind of thing from the list, what would be left would basically be redundant to Sex Tropes and Porn Tropes.

Oh umm those are all very common in hentai works.

I suppose Hentai Romantic Comedy would be a subgenre (very common and funny) As well as the Villain Protagonist Hentai is pretty much a genre as well. (who almost always gets Karma Houdini.).

(love the first one hate the second one.)

I dont think we should divide them up like that though.

edited 28th Jun '11 7:25:05 AM by Raso

There are exclusively hentai-specific "tropes" (though apparently no one bothered making any). Ahegao, for instance, which I've never seen outside of hentai (or hentai-inspired fan-made porn).

In that case, having a listing that included those tropes would give the idea of a Hentai Tropes article much more merit.

I still think that if we do create Hentai Tropes, we should only include those that are core to the genre, leaving out ones such as Villain Protagonist, Mary Sue and the like.

@Meeble: Agreed. We should include tropes like Naughty Tentacles, though, that no non-Japanese porn uses them. Well, AFAIK that is the case with Naughty Tentacles; mature films with plot that include sex/rape scenes don't count as porn, right? And do we even have American/European-made animated porn?

Yes, I would consider Naughty Tentacles to be a core part of the genre. It even says something to that effect in the Naughty Tentacles article.

Probably what would need to happen if people want to pursue this is to run Hentai Tropes through YKTTW so that there could be some discussion on what should be included.

Good idea. Do you want to do the honors...?

There would need to be a few new ones as well. I've had "Sex Battle" sitting in my brain for a while, but I haven't had the guts to YKTTW it.