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Last_Hussar Since: Nov, 2013
#28076: Aug 28th 2016 at 4:53:58 AM

My writing is Chick-lit, read by British women in 30s+,

Use of the F word in Chick Lit? Acceptable in a situation where lead male is incredible angry, and barely restraining himself against a Domestic Abuser? - in as much as he has already assaulted - in the legal sense - the abuser, but hasn't yet properly hurt him, he is right on the edge. Can I put lines like "So what the fuck you gonna do big man, call the fucking police so we can tell them all about how you hit women?" screamed into the weasel's face. Or is that too much for chick-lit?

DeMarquis Since: Feb, 2010
#28077: Aug 28th 2016 at 6:58:26 AM

First of all, "Chick Lit" is way too broad of a category, since it basically includes nearly every form of non-genre fiction. Some people regard the term as sexist. "Contemporary literature" the more formal term. Secondly, it's all in the presentation. You can get away with nearly anything if it's essential to the work's theme and you have the skill to pull it off.

TeraChimera Since: Oct, 2010
#28078: Aug 28th 2016 at 10:40:04 AM

Based on my own experiences, I've come up with an unusual method to show a character is clumsy: he cuts himself shaving with an electric razor.

What happened was, as I was shaving, my hand slipped and I pressed the razor hard into my lip. Some skin must've gotten squeezed into the gaps and nicked off by the blades. It barely hurt at all, but I definitely saw a droplet of blood.

Last_Hussar Since: Nov, 2013
#28079: Aug 28th 2016 at 3:16:13 PM

De Marquis - -I didn't call it that to start, one of my female readers did! Its all star crossed lovers and romances not quite working. (I get told off for making them cry!)

Alex is a big bloke who keeps in shape, plays Rugby. His best friend is Izzy (female). We've watched him always look out for her. He's never used violence, but did go Alpha Male 3 years previously, as students, when she received unwelcome attention in a bar. Now she's called saying "her boyfriend has gone weird". He drives 2 1/2 hours to help.

There was silence, and then, after five seconds of eternity, a click of the bathroom being unlocked, and Izzy came out. Her hair was dishevelled, her face ashen, and her eyes red-rimmed. And on one cheek a red mark, the size of a palm.
What ever twentieth century constraints Alex still possessed evaporated, and the Id took over, smashing Cal back into the left hand wall. There was a sharp ‘crack’ as the pine baton supporting the plasterboard gave way, and the wall bowed.
“You bastard. You fucking bastard!”
“Alex!” screamed Izzy.
Alex smashed him back into the other wall, leaving a dent. “Come on then, big man. Come on, let’s try that with someone who has a pair of balls.” His right hand drew back, fist balled, seemingly holding Cal easily with just his left. Cal’s face had started to go puce.

DeMarquis Since: Feb, 2010
#28080: Aug 30th 2016 at 9:52:25 AM

Depends on what effect you want to have here. It sounds like Alex is going too far, which deprives the victim of some of her agency. If that's the impression you are going for, then jolly good.

Last_Hussar Since: Nov, 2013
#28081: Aug 30th 2016 at 2:20:27 PM

Thanks for the reply - having trouble pitching it.. When you say 'some of her agency', do you mean it lessens her victim status

Hope you don't mind if I post most of the rest of the section. It shows more of the relationship between Izzy and Alex in this scene. I'm also trying to get over an idea that will be developing in earlier parts; that of Alex as an alpha male, except that he is a nice bloke so doesn't need to use it- he probably doesn't even realise it. This violence is completely out of character, showing his devotion to Izzy. Jack is Izzy's dad, who arrived fractionally after Alex.

Jack gently laid his hand on Alex’s wrist. “Stop there lad, he can’t do any more now we’re here.”
“Give me one reason, Jack, one reason,” Alex snarled. Cal looked like a rabbit caught in the open, the predator’s snarl reaching into his soul.
“I don’t want you to,” came a small voice. Alex’s breathing calmed a little, and he looked at Izzy. In her too big jumper, and messy hair, she looked, just for a moment, child-like. Vulnerable. Not the confident, out-going young woman he always saw. “I don’t want you to be arrested.”
“Yeah, I’m gonna get the filth on you.”
Alex turned back to Cal, a look of incredulity on his face. “You wanna try that, big man? You want to tell them how I had to come in to stop you hitting a girl?” Cal deflated, his last bluff called. “Iz is right, you ain’t worth the bleeding candle.”
Without moving his gaze off Alex, not letting him go too far, Jack said “Get your things together, Sweet-pea. We’re going. All your things, you are never coming back.”
“What about my job. The deposit.”
“We’ll worry about that tomorrow. It’s a rubbish job. You’ve got a degree, I’m sure I can ask around – builders don’t like water-tables. In the meantime you are coming back to me and your Ma.”
Alex put his head forward, his nose a hair’s breadth from Cal’s. “And I hear anything bad has happened to Izzy, I’m coming back. So you better hope she doesn’t trip over any paving stones. Am I crystal?”
Everything went still. Suddenly the air was filled with a pungent smell, and a dark patch began to spread across the crotch of Cal’s jeans. Alex leaned back with a sneer of contempt, and let him drop into a corner. A face appeared at the flat door, an anxious looking student. “Shall I call the police?”
Jack shook his head. “Izzy is just leaving. Everything else is his problem.”
Izzy ran and stuffed as much as she could into her suitcase, the rest into various carrier bags. Further trips to the Land-rover loaded her books. She looked at Cal. “I bought the TV, you told me to. I don’t really want it, you can keep it.”
Cal hadn’t moved in twenty minutes, not daring to upset the wolf in his flat.
Outside Izzy hugged Alex. “I’m sorry, I’m so sorry.” She started to cry into his shoulder. “And now I’m making your shirt wet.”
Alex laughed. “Oh you silly mare! You think that is the important thing, my laundry?”

An sentence just before refers to Alex's intelligence being "Buried under the caveman". The reason I posted this is it shows Izzy is the one who can get past that, his love for her gets past his Id's instinct.

DeMarquis Since: Feb, 2010
#28082: Aug 30th 2016 at 4:33:18 PM

No, I mean this strong man just solved Izzy's problem for her, which undermines her agency as a character. She's going to be taken less seriously by the readers because she hasn't done anything to earn this resolution (at least not that you have shown). She's just doing what she's been told, and letting the men deal with it, not unlike a child.

edited 30th Aug '16 4:34:53 PM by DeMarquis

CrystalGlacia from at least we're not detroit Since: May, 2009
#28083: Aug 30th 2016 at 5:52:20 PM

I'm assuming, however, that there are other scenes before and after this that show Izzy as confident, outgoing, and with agency, or scenes (assuming Alex isn't the only POV) where she tries to fix the situation herself by threatening to call the police or trying to get out that should prevent this one instance of her being unable to solve a problem by herself from completely destroying her agency as a character. I mean, you can't have a useless doll who mopes around and hopes somebody will come and save her, but they can't exactly be fixing every single problem by themselves, either.

But, looking it over, you said that Alex drove two-and-a-half hours to help her, which is making the situation look kind of improbable to me. Situations with abusers can escalate very quickly from 'he's being weird' to 'oh God he's hitting me', and I'm struggling to figure out why she called Alex in the first place, what she did in the meantime, or how the situation would work temporally with him swooping in after Cal's only slapped her.

If she thought the situation was bad enough that she needed help but was still able to access a phone, she probably should have called the police at some point. The average police response time (in the US at least) is ten minutes, and that should at least buy her some time to get out of the situation, if nothing else. If the police genuinely suck in her area and she just called Alex first, hoping that he'd be close enough, and Cal is the type who could very well have gone further than just a slap (Alex's remarks imply that he stopped Cal from going further, or imply that there's a real chance he would have), more than a slap should have happened. And if Cal really did just slap her, either because that's all he intended to do or chickened out of going further, that still leaves time for her to get away to someplace safe, regardless of when the slap occurred during that two-and-a-half hour time frame.

I guess what I'm saying is that the situation doesn't add up. The scene you've shown us depicts Izzy coming out of the bathroom, presumably not very long after Cal slapped her, with her father and Alex present, which tells me that the situation between her and Cal took two-and-a-half hours to get physical, and Alex and John arrived on the scene in the nick of time. And yet with all that time, she still felt that she needed Alex, and not the police's help, and apparently doesn't seem to have done anything effectual during that time.

edited 31st Aug '16 2:49:01 AM by CrystalGlacia

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth."
Last_Hussar Since: Nov, 2013
#28084: Aug 31st 2016 at 11:10:12 AM

Good point - I'll stick a little post incident exposition in it. The incident on which its based the response time was 24 hours! The fiction - basically got out of hand pretty quickly. Cal was being controlling, and lost it when he found out Alex was outside.

The whole book is basically a 'just a friend' situation waiting for the pair of them to realise.

CrystalGlacia from at least we're not detroit Since: May, 2009
#28085: Aug 31st 2016 at 11:23:24 AM

I guess another way you could play the initial phone call is by having the call be just a friendly conversation, with Izzy and Alex just chatting about how their day has been going, Izzy just mentions offhand that "oh yeah, Cal's been acting kind of weird lately", and Alex flies into full-on Violently Protective Friend mode at the mere suggestion that things might be getting iffy between Izzy and Cal, and then drives over to find the situation's gotten violent since the call, despite Izzy's attempts in the meantime to protect herself or get Cal to calm down in whatever ways you feel work for your story.

But do whatever works for your story.

edited 31st Aug '16 11:24:47 AM by CrystalGlacia

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth."
DarkbloodCarnagefang They/Them from New Jersey Since: May, 2012
They/Them
#28086: Sep 4th 2016 at 10:47:29 AM

Dreams make for interesting story ideas if you can remember them after waking up. The problem is that you rarely have a dream that serves as a follow up of the first dream. I guess some people can work with what we got, but I'm bad at everything I do and I need more material to work with. My subconscious mind is way more creative than my conscious mind.

Point is, I had an idea for a dream and I can remember the details, but I have no clue where to go from there. I've also kinda stopped writing in general, but that's not important.

Note to self: Pick less edgy username next time.
ewolf2015 MIA from south Carolina Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I-It's not like I like you, or anything!
MIA
#28087: Sep 4th 2016 at 12:03:08 PM

i have a question, what do you call something that's a star that comes out of people's hearts when their happy or inspired?

MIA
electronic-tragedy PAINKILLER from Wherever I need to be Since: Jan, 2014 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
PAINKILLER
#28088: Sep 4th 2016 at 3:28:02 PM

[up]Wouldn't that be better suited for the "what should I name this" thread? Because I don't think that's a thing that exists.

Life is hard, that's why no one survives.
Collen the cutest lizard from it is a mystery Since: Dec, 2010
the cutest lizard
#28089: Sep 4th 2016 at 3:56:04 PM

Wait, you mean that's not normal for other people? I should probably see a doctor

Gave them our reactions, our explosions, all that was ours For graphs of passion and charts of stars...
ewolf2015 MIA from south Carolina Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I-It's not like I like you, or anything!
MIA
#28090: Sep 5th 2016 at 7:32:52 AM

[up]humans are the only one's who don't know this since stelladites are invisible to most people.

MIA
sabrina_diamond iSanity! from Australia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
#28091: Sep 6th 2016 at 12:16:07 AM

I am writing a short ghost-possession scene, where the ghost of a former-lover (Arydas) possesses a lady called Kotone in order to speak with a male called Zach. The problem is mainly with the Show, Don't Tell method, so how do I show Arydas is dramatically controlling Kotone and make the whole scene seem creepier - instead of describing everything that Kotone does during the paragraph?

edited 6th Sep '16 12:27:54 AM by sabrina_diamond

In an anime, I'll be the Tsundere Dark Magical Girl who likes purple MY own profile is actually HERE!
Adannor Since: May, 2010
#28092: Sep 6th 2016 at 12:26:43 AM

Well for starters, clipped motions, as if struggling against herself? That's Uncanny Valley right there.

sabrina_diamond iSanity! from Australia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
#28093: Sep 6th 2016 at 12:30:48 AM

I forgot to say, it also comes with a temporal personality-shift, as Arydas the succubus is more scornful and dramatic, than Kotone ever is (Kotone is more of the calmly Technical Pacifist nature).

edited 6th Sep '16 12:33:20 AM by sabrina_diamond

In an anime, I'll be the Tsundere Dark Magical Girl who likes purple MY own profile is actually HERE!
SlendidSuit Freelance Worrywart from Probably a Pub Since: Oct, 2011
Freelance Worrywart
#28094: Sep 6th 2016 at 4:06:32 AM

It's probably worth keeping in mind that show, don't tell is kind of a reductive rule to go by. Sometimes you do just need to tell. Try out a couple of different approaches to showing the mind control at work and see what's best? E.g. having both characters say the same lines or something

Gimme yer lunch money, dweeb.
DeMarquis Since: Feb, 2010
#28095: Sep 6th 2016 at 5:53:45 AM

Changing the manner of speech is the first thing that occurs to me. Give the dead character a phrase they always use, then have the possessed character useit.

KillerClowns Since: Jan, 2001
#28096: Sep 6th 2016 at 7:10:47 PM

Ah, how characters change over the writing. A character I initially wrote as an Ax-Crazy Psycho for Hire Serial Killer has now gotten to the point where it's perfectly natural for her to give her friend shit about said friend's taste in bloodthirsty video games. (Granted, Alice doesn't like ultra-violent video games because leaving a body count feels unprofessional to a woman in her line of work, but still.)

TeraChimera Since: Oct, 2010
#28097: Sep 6th 2016 at 9:24:52 PM

I've figured out the source of my dislike for tropes like Humans Are Bastards and Humans Are the Real Monsters, which is less the tropes themselves and more how they're commonly used. In their most frequent usage, they're a subtrope of the utterly abhorrent Planet of Hats.

Too often, Humans Are Bastards is subtly changed to All Humans Are Always Bastards. I'm not denying humans have a massive potential for bastardry, but all of them? Dumb and uninteresting. It reduces humans to a collection of stereotypes, especially since a lot of the time, humans jump off the slippery slope to be bastards. And sometimes, the context can make things, although not necessarily justifiable, at least understandable. (One of the reasons I love Left 4 Dead: that bit of graffiti that says, "We are the real monsters." "No, that's the zombies.")

Also too often, particularly in more amateurish writing, works that use those tropes act like they're the first work to use the trope and are saying something deep and profound that's never been said before, when it's already been done to death. Once, I was reading a noir story where the jaded, cynical cop was telling his idealistic rookie partner about how the corrupt politicians are the real criminals. Having already read plenty of stuff with corrupt politicians that showed you they were bad instead of telling you, the following conversation immediately ran through my head:

"So, um, what about the dudes on the streets killing people?"
"Huh?"
"The dudes on the streets. Killing people. They aren't criminals?"
"Well, no, they are, but-"
"Then why are you saying these guys are the real criminals?"
"They're rotten to the core and exploit others for their own gain."
"Are they killing people?"
"...No..."
"'Cause that stuff's bad, but killing people's also pretty bad. Like, criminally so. Literally."
"Look, I'm just pointing out that these politicians are corrupt."
"Um, yeah, I know that. I've lived in this hellhole my whole life. I know those guys are terrible, terrible people. But you can't say they're the real criminals, like no other crime exists."
"Uh..."
"You're not the only person with a brain, you know."

And just once, I'd like to see a survivor camp in a zombie apocalypse where the survivors are pleasant and friendly not because they're luring you in to eat you or kill you and take your stuff, but because they're genuinely pleasant and friendly. And, okay, maybe Big Tom is a bit domineering and overprotective of his position as leader, but his meticulous planning and his genuine care for every individual is the primary reason they haven't lost a single survivor to the zombies in well over a year. And they offer to take the protagonists in, no strings attached, so long as they pull their weight, and are completely honest about that.

SabresEdge Show an affirming flame from a defense-in-depth Since: Oct, 2010
Show an affirming flame
#28098: Sep 7th 2016 at 12:55:04 PM

Not to mention, trying to backstab everyone and gaining a reputation for unreliability and unpleasantness places you at a competitive disadvantage.

Charlie Stross's cheerful, optimistic predictions for 2017, part one of three.
KillerClowns Since: Jan, 2001
#28099: Sep 7th 2016 at 8:49:55 PM

RE: "Corrupt politicians are the real criminals". Obviously it's been done to death a dozen times, but the obvious answer is, in the appropriately guttural growl:

"The dudes on the streets. Killing people. They aren't criminals?"

"No, son, they ain't. Some of 'em are psychos, sure, but a lot of 'em ain't 'real criminals'. They're poor fucks trying to stay alive in a world were the only thing they know is crime, violence, fear. And who you think built that world, son?"

But then, that rejects Humans Are Bastards in its own way.

edited 7th Sep '16 8:54:42 PM by KillerClowns

kegisak Element of Class Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
Element of Class
#28100: Sep 7th 2016 at 8:52:06 PM

And then an actually genuinely interest debate on the nature of crime and it's relation, or occasional lack thereof, to actual ethics?

Or just more romanticized alcoholism?

Birthright: an original web novel about Dragons, the Burdens of Leadership, and Mangoes.

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