"Is my character a Mary Sue" thread

I definitely Write Who You Know - most the characters are at least loosely based on friends and family with a few, as they say in the disclaimers for "Based On A True Story" films, "composite characters" where I've taken two or more people with related hobbies etc and made them into one character.

The important thing is to prevent them from becoming to idealised and Sue-ish, include their failings (or someone else's failings if it makes 'em more interesting).

Ian's me with very few changes - he's living in the region where I grew up (the story actually refers to him/me having recently moved back there from here), he's in a relationship of the sort I would like to be in and he's actively pursuing hobbies that I would pursue (given reliable transport and more spare cash) but other than those changes, he's an aging computer geek with my job, my skills, interests, hobbies, values/religion/opinions, strengths and weaknesses.

Although he's moved away from a number of friends up here (who are referred to and even visit from time to time), the other characters in the story (in the region where the action takes place) are at least loosely based on those same friends - with enough mixing and changing to make them unique.

Not really a complete description, there's really only one detail I'm worried about.

If a character is liked romantically by multiple characters of both sexes, does this warrant suedom?

Not just because of that one trait. It would be like saying that any character with purple eyes and hair is automatically a Mary Sue by default. If your character has some physical or moral flaws, like some people despise her, she would be less sue-ish.

edited 6th May '11 1:50:48 PM by chihuahua0

To be specific: It would be a Sue if she was liked (romantically or not) by everyone she meets except by designated antagonists, who would hate her for no adequately explained reason ("because she is so beautiful" is not an adequate reason).

Alright, then. My question's answered. Thanks guys.

Not necessarily. One can be a shining example of Even The Guys/Girls Want Him/Her without being anything close to a Mary Sue, be it through being otherwise thoroughly unimpressive, blatantly vain or cruel, supremely oblivious, or even just reasonably flawed and genuinely interesting.

Really, the essential thing is how much the audience can reasonably sympathise with those in-story who are attracted to said character; it's ultimately just "show, don't tell" all over again.

edited 6th May '11 1:54:31 PM by JHM

I think THE biggest problem, as noted by many tropers and other off-line critics, with my characters is that I'm trying to build them based on tropes/traits. I mean, really, The Hero in my story is, in fact, built from three tropes, and the character design came later. It doesn't help that I'm going for a totally Trope Overdosed Troperiffic work that utilizes AS MANY TROPES in existence.

By the way, being uncomfortably formal to everyone, even to his classmates, is not a sign of Mary Sue*

Not at all. It can be pretty annoying, under certain circumstances, especially if someone were to take it as a kind of backhanded insult.

I have a few characters like that, come to think of it, the most blatant being Timon, due to his moral objections to ambiguous phrasing.

I see. This is irrelevant to this thread, but would being polite, while never, EVER changing his expression and always going last name basis (Mr, or Ms something), even to his classmates (he's a highschooler), feel a bit too odd for readers?

Perhaps, but if you have a good reason for it (or just write it properly), then it won't be a bad kind of weird.

edited 6th May '11 5:12:42 PM by JHM

I have to ask, why would you possibly think being too formal is a sign of being a Mary Sue? Easily one of the most bizarre "Sue Traits" I've heard of.

Is editing a story to avoid the Idiot Ball trope necessarily making characters more of a Mary Sue?

Well, come to think of it, I don't know either. He always calls his friends in honorifics and...yeah, I think I got confused being Mary Sue and being idiosyncratic.

P Down: No, it's just a relief for the readers. They won't have to bang their head against the wall so many times.

Unless everyone but said character still has said idiot ball.

Okay so I have a main character with Mismatched Eyes. In the beginning of the story he gets annoyed when some of his classmates (some of them not all of them do this) point it out or stare at him. As per his nature he's sort of the I Just Want to Be Normal kinda guy who doesn't really like attention. His reaction to this is to show how he feels about his powers and things that make him stand out. He doesn't Wangst over them, he just doesn't like attention.

I talked with someone and they mentioned that I should have him grow out of it and learn to shrug it off. Any other suggestions?

Just have him grow out of it and shrug it off. You know how hard it is to tell if someone has different-colored eyes, unless one is very light and the other dark? Not the sort of thing you can spot from across the classroom.

When I took this test for my main fanfic character she ended up with... I think 15ish? I dunno.

Should probably test her employer at some point.

My antagonist OCs have more of a major role in my fanfic than the main canon characters probably will (they come up with an evil scheme and actually succeed, leaving the heroes in a last-ditch effort to stop them).

Does that make them Villain Sue territory?

Mine main protagonist and story is considerable lacking flaws or challenges... that aren't romantic or personal. The whole story is about his relationship with a vampire in a fairly civilized world-with-supernatural-creatures. It is for Luminosity.

Another aspect of him, that I think it might come off a little Mary Sue-ish: He has a tendecy to not like when people suffer and try to listen to they problems (which he is somehow good, people do have a tendecy to open up with him), I was thinking to make him a little extreme doormat, but don't think I can make it in a sympathetic way... dunno, just want to make him human or something xP

EDIT: Of course I had to forget his main Mary Sue-ish trait

The character, called Tomas, wants to become a vampire, but if he does, he will lose his memories when he turns. So he is spending a few months with his vamp-lover recovering his journals (who had been water damaged). He is very terrified of forgetting things.

However, once he gets turned there are couple things that happen:

• He gets a power that allows him to recover memories in himself (and eventually other people)
• As another facet of this power... he sort-of-forgets-everything he wakes up as a vampire completely blank. In essence his power "pushed" his memories to a corner of his mind where they could be safely kept. He can retrieve them from "there", but has to make a effort to retrieve them, however very slowly, maybe taking years before his has his regular set of memories back, meanwhile he relieves his live almost entirely backwards.

edited 10th May '11 5:32:53 PM by Bluelantern2814

Okay. I have an Eldritch Abomination who is Ax-Crazy and an irritating Cloudcuckoolander who spews old memes like it was 2006, but only targets villains (yep, Pay Evil unto Evil). His main features are two ragged arms with red hands that destroy anything that they slash, and he can "infect" (think in the style of Agent Smith) people. He's the very definition of a Glass Cannon - he can wipe a city clean, but a .22 to the head can stop him. Each of his "infected" share the same powers, but appear to act independently (they have "personalities" when it's really just talking to himself) and can expertly use any sort of weapon. He's also capable of teleportation.

edited 10th May '11 7:46:46 PM by Jackerel

No, just because they are actually competent does not mean they're Sues.

That character could be a Sue, depending on how it's handled. As it is now, he gets turned into a vampire but gets a way around the disadvantages. How does he get the power to recover memories? If it happened randomly without a good explanation, then I'd say yeah. The plot made an exception just for this character.

We can't judge your character with just that. Powers and characteristics don't make a Mary Sue, wrapping the plot to fit them does.

In my original work, the main character is a teenager who is a pretty formidable martial artist (mix of krav maga/silat to be specific) who can use low level of magic (compared to most other magicians in my verse), is one of the top student in his fairly prestigious school, and can momentarily (1 to 3 seconds) access to reality manipulating power with cost of extremely rapid body breakdown. The setting is mostly same with present time, except that magic is much more commonplace.

Is there any part about him that would make him look like a mary sue (it's a he, but for some reason female term sounds more fitting to him...)?

There is a whole deal of "power based on personality/skill" and the main justifications are:

• He has a good memory (I am having trouble with making this more than a informed atribute though)
• He is afraid of losing his memories, it is probably the most scary aspect of turning to him.
• Related to above, he will spend several months recovering his old journals, and while he does a pretty good job at it, he also feels that his journals are too "imcomplete" and start to re-writting/adding as much information he can.

edited 11th May '11 3:31:39 AM by Bluelantern2814

I almost giving up the character, dunno, it might be paranoia.

or...

Well... the thing the main character is receiving lots of help though in the context of the setting. Check Luminosity page or read the story to truly understand, but the relevants bits are (beware of spoilers):

• Vampires have a kind of intense love at first sight. It is simetrical if both of they are vampire or if one of them is a vampire and the other is turned into one later
• The supernatural world is currently ruled by the benevolent The Golden Empire.
• You can't forcible turn someone into a vampire. Every turning must be informed and consensual.
  • It is somehow controversial that vampires can't turn their human mates, a vampire that loses a mate (or with a unloving mate) suffers much more than a human ever could. Consider that a forcible turned human mate would be a superstrong immortal that will be happy and genuinely in love with his mate.
• As a rule, all vampires are "forgiven" of any crime before they are informed the new laws, but once they are informed, it is fair game.

In the particular case of the story, Tomas is a human, and Sasha is a vampire that mated on him.

Sasha didn't knew about the change of power, and did the "traditional" method of dealing with a human mate... kiddnapping and forcible turning (as in the old laws).

However the Golden Empire intervenes and stops Sasha, acidentally causing Tomas to go catatonic in the process due to magic.

Sasha fully coperates with the law the moment he hears it. Sasha also has a interesting power.*

Sasha is tolt the situation, and when he finds out that Tomas has the power to decide to be with him or not. Sasha asks for help... to be killed if Tomas says No (go read Luminosity if you think this is too much), Sasha is sure that Tomas is going to say no.

Tomas+Sasha case is somehow controversial, they *quite* couldn't arrest him for the kiddnapping, he obeyed and cooperated completely, and there is the suicidal request. One of the Golden Empire most powerful witches*

Tomas is "restored" from his catatonic state and explained the whole situation.Due to overcomplicated but sound logic. Tomas decides that he wants to be a vampire and be Sasha's mate (again: immortal and happy). Tomas's mom is not happy about it thought she doesn't want to completely alienate her son, she doesn't want Sasha around.

However due to some in story reasons, Tomas doesn't want to be turned right away, and the date is set to be sometime after Tomas's makes 18.

because of the case is controversial, and because Sasha has a interesting power and the empire wants to have him in it.

They help like this:

• Tomas's moves to the wolf village because:
  • This keep Tomas and Sasha close to eachother
  • Keeps Tomas in a safe place that is nearby enough, at same time, that it is far enough so Sasha can't "suffocate" Tomas too much.
  • Keeps Sasha and his power close enough for use.
• Help Tomas to go to high school with a fake background story because:
  • It would please Tomas's mom, she hopes that her child stays human and leads a human life and that the whole vampire thing is "just a fase".
  • Gives Tomas something to to. Boredom is terrible for romance.
• Loam, loam a car to Tomas go to said school.
  • Because walking sucks, and is conspicious.
• Give Tomas's a small allowance while he lives in said village.
  • Reparation to the catatonic state caused above
  • Tomas's mom isn't happy at all with the current arragement.
  • The Golden Empire is loaded with money, if anything, thrown dollars at the problem is the easiest thing they can do.

So in essence, the golden empire acts like a super rich shipper on deck due to "political" reasons. >.>

edited 11th May '11 8:59:57 PM by Bluelantern2814