Playing with the Harem Sub-Genre

I decided not to title this "deconstructing" because we so often digress from deconstruction anyway. So, let's talk about the harem subgenre.

In brief, we have a protagonist, and at least three people who for various reasons are interested in hooking up with him or her. While there may be a clear favorite, the protagonist is for whatever reason unwilling or unable to make a clear choice that locks the other competitors out.

Male character with multiple possible girlfriends is the most common version, but the Gender Flip is now seen enough that you can no longer count them on one hand. While I don't recall any offhand, I'm sure that gay/lesbian/bisexual versions exist.

So, ways this can be subverted/inverted/deconstructed/invoked/etc.?

A first thought: A series where the protagonist keeps trying to set up his excess "girlfriends" with Those Two Guys on the grounds that it's selfish for him to hog all the cuties.

Well, The World God Only Knows makes it an enforced trope where the incredibly disinterested lead has to go out and make girls fall in love with him or bad things happen.

Hmm, but do any of the girls still have feelings for him after he succeeds in exorcising the "makes her act like a dating sim character" spirits? And if so, why?

To a degree, yes they do. Most of the girls still have residual memories left over, but they don't quite understand why they feel attracted to him. Especially since he's quite unpopular and disliked in school.

#IceBearForPresident

Yes, lots of them do. Not all of them, but most. Reasons vary from character to character. Some of them he interacted with too much to be erased from their memory completely. One girl who he interacted with very little doesn't even remember him let alone like him. There are about half a dozen other girls that still seem to like him due to spoilery reasons.

There are also several character he didn't didn't go out of his way to seduce though they usually were 'targets' to some extent.

Well deconstructed is pretty much is always and forever School Days

But the Brutal use of this trope is with Persona 3 dating other girls will make them Jealous (Unless you have maxed out their S-Link then they trust you) and will go reverse (which means you have to spend time begging and giving them gifts just to continue going out with them)

Having Romanced all of them, You do not get a choice if you want the all the best gear and the ultimate Persona (This is changed in the remake P 3 P which lets you stay in the Friend Zone) You DIE in the ending

The Playable Epilogue you get to see exactly the 5 party member Girlfriends (You don't get to see what the three Non-Party member ones are doing) are dealing with the loss (Which is to say NOT well even the Cute Robot Girl) .

edited 22nd Jan '11 11:31:03 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

Hmm, another possible subversion—one of the possible love interests, after a while, gets really sick of the protagonist's inability to make a choice. And instead of trying to force a choice, which never works, she or he simply leaves the Love Dodecahedron altogether and gets on with their life.

Honestly, in a realistic take I'd expect most of the girls to do this sort of thing. Unless the guy has some utterly amazingly winning charm and/or something the women really want (or the girl in question has exceptionally low self-esteem), finding out that he's apparently stringing along a whole bunch of women at the same time would just make him look like a douchebag. And would probably kill a lot of desire to be in a relationship with him.

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I'm writing something aiming for an 'Everyone is Everyone's Else's Unwanted Harem' feeling. Basically it's taking the Love Dodecahedron to its ultimate consequences. Naturally, the fact such things can't be explained easily at all, much less when they're happening all over the place to pretty much anyone, is the main crux preventing a mass Tenchi Solution from happening right off the bat.

edited 23rd Jan '11 8:35:24 AM by NapoleonDeCheese

No surprise, I'll add the mixed bag harem-esque situation of Elfen Lied. Of the five manga ladies, only two are real candidates for the lead's affections. Lucy, love her dearly, is something that can never be for Kouta, though he tried with all his might. Mayu is his daughter for all intents, her age aside, and I think K&Y likely suspect her backstory situation even if it is never made explicit to them. Nana is also his charge, and any affection between them took awhile to build up, and I believe Nana might always have their tense introduction in the back of her mind. Nozomi, no matter how confident she ultimately becomes, will always yield to Yuka, the first and last girl standing. Even the 'dense harem hero' is tossed around a bit with Kouta—he likely is a bit thick, but part of that has to come from blocking off his traumatic memories.

I would never say the other relationships are impossible—that's what AU's and fics are for. I will say, for Lucy to work, you need an AU where say, she boards the train and scares the crap out of everyone, but spares Kanae and their father. Elsewise, it's a fic bridge too far.

Another one I like is Tona Gura. In that one, most ladies are in fact not interested in the lead, though their degree of disinterest varies, and almost all want to help the two leads overcome their flaws and hook up.

The Go-To For Accurate, Thorough Information about Elfen Lied : http://elfen-lied.wikia.com/wiki/Elfen_Lied_Wiki

Another thought for a series:

The first episode opens with the harem storyline already in place, as Bob is pursued by Alice, Carol, Debbie and Erika. Wacky Hijinks and Fanservice galore! But at the end of the episode, Bob finally turns around and says, "Carol, will you marry me?" Cue a mass "EEEEHHH!?!" from the other girls.

The second episode opens with Alice moving to a new town to start over. "It was a lovely wedding." She happens to meet her new next door neighbor, the handsome but kind of clueless Fred, under somewhat embarrassing circumstances but soon spots his good qualities. At the very end of the episode, Alice meets her other new neighbor Gigi, who also rapidly takes a shine to Fred.

Alice realizes where this is heading, and spends the rest of the series trying to avert the harem genre tropes.

^ I'm pretty sure your story would end up with monsters attacking pretty early on.

Then it's not really a harem, but pseudo-harem (guy still coexists with pretty girls, but only one has an actual love interest on him). Much like Ah My Goddess.

@Arha, other than that's in fact rather my taste in anime, what makes you say that?

It's just the natural progression of events in anime. Somehow.

@Napoleon:

What, like Star Driver?

I guess it is.

Haven't checked that one yet, but it sounds somewhat interesting. Maybe I'll check it out, thanks.

Following up from @Drakyndra, a few posts above...yes, in a realistic treatment, many women would quickly move on if it looked like the harem pivot character wasn't going to make up his mind soon...and quite a few men would do the same in the gender flip version. So why doesn't this happen more often in the genre, what makes the girls stay?

In Infinite Stratos, the protagonist is simply the only game in town, being The Only Guy. Pursue him, sleep alone, or learn to like Schoolgirl Lesbians. Even when a second guy finally shows up, he's no help for spoilery reasons.

In the one where the guy can use magic only X number of times before dying, I forget the name, all the girls who are after him are (initially) after his sperm, since the odds are heavy that his offspring will be very magically gifted. Even the one that initially wants to kill him instead can't back out due to family obligation.

But I'm not sure that the "low self-esteem leads to her being unable to fault the protagonist for not immediately choosing her, and thus she stays" version has ever been openly done.

@Napoleon: Well, although I quite like the show, I feel I should point out I was being somewhat facetious there. It's not really a harem show, and while one could get the impression from fans that all the characters want to screw all the other characters, that's something of an exaggeration. It's certainly the kind of show where you can ship pretty much anyone with anyone, though.

I guess it is.

Ranma 1/2 is a deconstruction if you get the fact that most of the participants are stuck in obligations of honor, so if Ranma makes a choice he will be violating his obligations and dishonoring himself, as well as one or more of the women.

For example, Ranma is engaged to marry a Tendo (specifically Akane, although technically he can fulfill his obligation with one of her sisters). He is also engaged to Ukyo (and his father accepted the bridal dowry- so this is a pretty solid engagement, no backing out without major dishonor). Ukyo will be dishonored if she doesn't marry Ranma, both because of the shame of being jilted, but also it's implied Ukyo has sworn some kind of oath that hinges on Ranma decision to marry or not marry her. Similarly Shampoo, according to her society, is obligated to marry Ranma and bring him home, (although in her case Ranma is probably not personally obligated to marry her). The other main girl in the harem, Kodachi, is insane. (Yes, she is insane, all the Kuno's are insane).

Because of this they are all chasing Ranma and can't stop no matter how much of a jerk he is, or how indecisive he is. There is simply no way out. Which is why Ukyo and Shampoo are both constantly convincing themselves that they are in love with Ranma and that there is no other man for them. If they didn't do that, it would mean admitting that their honor requires them to marry someone they don't love.

Because of this they insist on blaming "the other woman" for the problem, instead of blaming Ranma, (although they do tend to punish Ranma a bit sometimes). Akane on the other hand is still pissed at her father about being engaged to a man she had never met, but being unable to take it out on her father, she instead vents her anger on Ranma. And then when the other women come around she continues to blame Ranma for not making a decision, and instead leaving them all in limbo land.

Ranma has his own priorities- getting rid of his gender bender curse, and not getting his head cut off by his own mother being the main ones. That and learning martial arts. He has a bit of an ego, so he finds it flattering to have all the girls chasing him, but he is in a situation where he can't make a choice without violating one of his other obligations, so it seems his tactic is to just delay until a solution presents itself.

Another silly idea: First episode, our Unlucky Everydude protagonist meets the Manic Pixie Dream Girl. Since she's pretty much the first woman ever to treat him nice at all, Dude is thinking he's pretty lucky and set to go steady if that's what she wants.

Except that come Episode Two, and suddenly other really hot women are massively interested in Dude too, and showing it. And he's trying to back out of the exclusivity thing Pixie wants because, hey, he's got the chance to play the field. And yes, he kind of realizes he's being a douchebag, but he didn't know he had options.

A Perspective Flip might be interesting. Follow one of the harem members through the series instead of their common Love Interest, or maybe give each member of the harem A Day in the Limelight. Explore the interactions between them in detail: The schemes, the fights, the negotiations, politics, gives and takes etc.

And make the common Love Interest a Flat Character who gets no development at all. I'm sure this has been done before but I don't think it's common.

edited 26th Jan '11 10:32:21 PM by Recon5

Hmmm.

Raw Power in one thread uggested an ACTUAL Harem Anime, taking place in say, the Ottoman Seraglio with intrigue eunuchs, sultan mothers, and the entire works. I'd watch it.

One though I had was to basically deconstruct it into "What kind of person would accept that kind of arrangement/competition?" my basic idea was to have one girl who's just got bad confience all around, one girl who's willing to stick with it du to some kind of ulteror motive (material or social) one who just gets off on the entire situation (for added bonus points hve her hit constantly on the other haremettes too, don't necessarily play i for comedy though, but do a creepy sex-addict thing of it) one would be a childhood friend who isn't *realy* into the lead omantically, but she thinks it's the only way to keep their friendship (which she's very emotionally dependant on) going, one would be a Christmas Cake figuring this is her last/only shot at getting a guy since her own social circle considers her too old (or just unacceptable for some other reason)....

Basucakky guve everyone a reason to go after the guy that is more related to them and their own needs/issues than with the mnain love interest.

edited 26th Jan '11 11:09:39 PM by Arilou

"No, the Singularity will not happen. Computation is hard." -Happy Ent

That'd be interesting. It sounds like it would make a better deconstruction than School Days was (if one can consider that show a Deconstruction).

I also like the idea of giving the harem more a wider scope of guys to choose from. Sort of friends of the harem lead. This would also show that the lead isn't some unsociable guy who happened to hit a lucky streak by having people that are generally way out of his league love him with almost no effort. Also show that the harem have interests outside the love interest (or rather, show that they have interests that aren't there just so they can say "Now we can do this together/Now I can be alone with him"). Y'know, actually flesh them out more.

Speaking of the friends, have at least one of them be as pleasant as the lead and one of them not be so extremely perverted  ^*

. Part of the problem I have with some of the harem anime is that the leads tend to be the only decent guys that the harem members have ever encountered (and if the guy has friends, they're usually only able to make the lead look better by comparison). I kind of want to see something akin to Touga and Eiji in Gravion (yes, I know that's not a harem series). Basically, we have the typical overly too-nice-for-his-own good and socially awkward lead and have his Foil be a somewhat popular/more sociable/Hot-Blooded, yet also nice (except with probably a bit more cynicism and common sense) friend (so I guess it'd be a sort of variation of Red Oni, Blue Oni or Sensitive Guy and Manly Man; they aren't complete opposites, but are also not really that similar, so the harem can see "boyfriend material" in both). They may follow The Bro Code if it comes down to it.

I'd probably tolerate more harem series if it at least had two decent male leads and a member of the harem that isn't into the lead but is still his friend (I feel like it should be that way if the last harem member happens to have been an antagonist prior to joining). Mostly because I haven't seen a harem series where the members of the harem had trouble deciding who they like... or the male friends all sharing the Unwanted Harem feeling just wants the entire group to not compromise each others' frienships... or at least slow down. I'd also tolerate it more if I didn't have to worry about what happens to the other girls who weren't chosen by the lead (assuming he chooses at all). Maybe it's Fridge Logic for me, but I do wonder how those girls, whose lives were probably significantly changed by the lead, would cope with losing him (and you could say "Oh, they just got over it", but given the amount of attention and time the girls devoted to trying to "catch" him, it'd be hard for me to accept that).

 ^note

edited 27th Jan '11 12:43:41 AM by Customer

Now that I think about it, White Album did a bit of playing around with the stuff. Eg. the reason the male lead gets a harem in the first place is due to him being very lonely and afraid of being alone.

edited 27th Jan '11 12:51:17 AM by Arilou

"No, the Singularity will not happen. Computation is hard." -Happy Ent