YMMV / Smogon

Main Site

  • Acceptable Targets:
  • Americans Hate Tingle: Given that at least Americans, if not the whole of the English speaking world, loves Charizard, it is quite ironic that Charizard was generally hated amongst Smogoners (also predominantly English-language based) until the 6th Generation due to Charizard actually being not very useful until the buff for Generation 6, and its fans attempting to use Charizard regardless adding to the ire.
  • Author's Saving Throw:
    • The outcome of the Shadow Tag test for Ubers was vetoed by the site owner due to the extremely controversial method that the moderators were using to count the votes. note 
    • Shadow Tag + Hypnosis was banned after realizing how broken and uncompetitive it is. Doubly so with the Mega Evolution changes in Generation 7, where Pokémon get the speed of their mega form the turn they evolve, rather than the turn after, which made the incredibly fast Mega Gengar unstoppable as long as it lands a 60% move before the opponent is able to act.
  • Broken Base:
    • Most ban discussions end up as this, but a special mention goes to the discussion of SwagPlay, a "strategy'' which consists of confusing the enemy and increasing his Attack in order to use it against him with Foul Play. The original thread was split between those who wanted all forms of confusion banned and those who felt that banning Swag Play is completely ridiculous and should have never been considered in the first place. In the end, the discussion devolved into such a mess that it was locked. The current consensus seems to be that while it isn't broken and can be beaten out, it's so incredibly Boring, but Practical to the point where entire official tournaments hinged on the strategy, and people are just sick of seeing it.
    • Their dedication to 6v6 singles while official tournaments follow doubles format is contentious within the competitive community. Nugget Bridge is a site dedicated to the official VGC format due to Smogon's half-hearted coverage and lack of good players within that format.
  • Casual/Competitive Conflict:
  • Complacent Gaming Syndrome:
    • The site is infamous for how much they love the entry hazard Stealth Rock, to the point that it's almost memetic; virtually every team carries it regardless of what tier is being played since it's just so darn useful. If you're playing on the actual games' random Wifi and doing a Singles battle, you can probably infer whether or not your opponent is from the site based on whether you see Stealth Rock being used.
    • The Gen V metagame was widely hated due to the fact that Politoed's permanent rain caused this. Even after Drizzle and Swift Swim were banned from being used together, it was still powerful enough that few people used anything else, and Smogon refused to put any larger of a ban on it, for fear of Jumping Off the Slippery Slope. About half of all teams used had Weather by the time X and Y were announced. It's generally seen now by those outside of Smogon (and some in it) as the greatest failure of their suspecting process, as even after several bans to nerf the play-styles based around it, Rain still remained extremely dominant. Also, since Gen. V, the current banning philosophy has been far more aggressive and has raised concerns that Smogon is now Jumping Off the Slippery Slope they said they were trying to avoid in trying to avoid something like Gen. V weather teams' dominance from happening again.
  • Creator's Pet:
    • During Gen V, weather, especially rain teams, got accused of this, thanks to Smogon, in general, favoring weather teams despite outcries of people who were sick of seeing nothing but "weather wars" during said generation. Most of the competitive matchups of that generation boiled down to either two rain teams facing each other, or teams specifically designed to counter rain teams facing rain teams or teams specifically designed to counter rain teams. Despite this falling under the main reason Smogon tends to hit Pokémon with the ban hammernote , Smogon instead put bans on specific abilities or combos such as Swift Swim in permanent rain instead of finally hitting weather outright. It's telling when most Pokémon online battle simulators offered a mode specifically to address this problemnote  while Smogon still continued to ignore most major complaints about this format to continue to focus on rain oriented teams.
    • The Kami trio (especially Landorus) also get accusations of this type, due to many bans apparently being made to aid them in the metagame no matter how versatile or broken they may be.
  • Fandom Berserk Button: Being a common target for ire in the Pokémon community and a trouble magnet for it has caused Smogon to have little tolerance for trolls and people who invoke Insane Troll Logic as arguments in the forums, especially during suspect tests.
  • Game-Breaker: Here. And here.
  • Hype Backlash:
    • Electivire is the poster mon of it. Back in Gen IV, it was in OU, but it has several noticeable flaws, such as having mediocre speed and most of its moves have relatively low power or low accuracy. By the time Generation V rolled in, players stop using Electivire in OU, so it was dropped to lower tiers.
    • When Mega Gallade became available, players thought Mega Gallade was superior to Mega Medicham. However, this isn't the case. While Mega Gallade has advantages that Mega Medicham does not, Mega Medicham has the ability, Pure Power, which doubles its Attack stat; therefore, it actually hits harder than Mega Gallade. Meanwhile, Mega Gallade has Inner Focus, which is considered mostly underwhelming. Ultimately, Mega Gallade isn't bad, just not better than Mega Medicham.
  • Love It or Hate It: Smogons rulesets and tier system are often seen as either the most balanced and interesting take on the Pokémon meta or an annoying bunch of know-it-alls who stifle Pokémon team building creativity and results in a lot of boring matches using the same set of Pokémon with the same set of moves over and over again, with barely any in between opinions on the group and site.
  • Memetic Badass: Druddigon is commonly referred to by RU players for being the most overpowered Pokémon in existence, a great contrast to how it's treated as the most unmemorable Dragon Type in the series by the rest of the fandom.
  • Memetic Loser: Charizard, prior to Gen VI introducing two very strong Mega Evolutions for it. That said, the base form is still considered this, as well as any versions of it in Ubers.
  • Memetic Mutation: Can be found here.
  • Mis-blamed:
  • More Popular Spin-off: Smogon's rules, while not perfect, are widely (but not universally) considered to be superior to the official rules set down by Game Freak/Nintendo.
  • Poor Man's Substitute: After Deoxys's Defense form was banned from OU, the Spikes-stacking core of Klefki and Bisharp became known as "Poor Man's Deosharp".Deosharp? 
  • Rescued from the Scrappy Heap: In Gen 6, Charizard's Mega Evolutions made it a legitimately solid choice in higher tiers; Mega Charizard X is essentially Salamence with a better typing and a built-in, recoil-free Life Orb for contact moves, while Mega Charizard Y gets Drought and is the hardest-hitting non-Uber weather inducer. Not to mention that it's often hard for the opponent to predict which Mega Evolution Charizard is packing.
  • Scrub:
    • Averted. Almost everything they ban is determined by community feedback, whether or not the supposed Game-Breaker is overcentralizingnote , and ultimately tests with ladder ranking entry requirements. The process is nonetheless prone to groupthink. This was taken into account by disallowing voters from changing their votes.
    • However, if you want Evasion to be legal, the entire competitive community will brand you as one.note  You will also likely ignite a horrible flame war.
      • Ironically, evasion was allowed for Ubers after testing the tier and participants deciding that it isn't that bad due to how powerful everything is there (read: the odds are very high that an Evasion user will be wiped out long before it manages to buff itself to nigh-unhittable status). Doesn't stop a few losses turning into wins due to blind luck every now and then, though.
      • Double Team advocates tend to change their minds after fighting Justy from Colosseum/XD or a Minimize Chansey holding Eviolite.
    • Defending your favorite Pokémon (namely unviable Pokémon and/or starters) against legitimate criticism by invoking Popularity Power will also cause you to be viewed as this. note 
    • Also played straight with casuals who try to adopt Smogon rules and force others to abide by them despite a) not having a single clue what half of them mean and b) not being anywhere near the skill level where those rules start to mean anything.
  • Special Effects Failure:
    • Mega Steelix's animation does not loop properly.
    • Pheromosa's animation still has the Sun/Moon Pokédex background behind its translucent wings.
  • That One Rule: Speed is calculated at the beginning of the turn and not directly after a change to speed. While this normally does not pose a problem, as it typically takes a turn to use a speed-altering move, a Pokémon that Mega Evolves can suddenly seem too under-speedy against the opponent, because speed on that turn is still determined using pre-Mega Evolution stats. This was changed in Generation 7.
  • Tier-Induced Scrappy: Has its own page here.
  • Vindicated by History: Happens every now and again, due to people finding things that actually work better than previously thought. Such examples are Rotom-W in Gen IV (an issue of The Smog even said it goes from being mediocre to "a sub-par Lanturn" when the Rotom form type changes were discovered) and Deoxys-D in Gen V, where it was UU for a short period of time before it was discovered how bulky it was.

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