YMMV / Smogon

Main Site

  • Acceptable Targets: Poké Tubers, people on YouTube that post videos of "competitive" Pokémon matches, are often mocked due to them indirectly invoking Sturgeon's Law for competitive play and their propensity to give out bad advice. More skilled Poké Tubers or those directly from Smogon themselves (like pokeaimMD or CybertronProductions) aren't subject to this since they actually know what they're talking about.
  • Americans Hate Tingle: Given that at least Americans, if not the whole of the English speaking world, loves Charizard, it is quite ironic that Charizard was generally hated amongst Smogoners (also predominantly English-language based) until the 6th Generation. Justified due to Charizard actually being not very useful until the buff for Generation 6, and Scrubs attempting to use Charizard regardless adding to the ire.
  • Author's Saving Throw: The outcome of the Shadow Tag test for Ubers was vetoed by the site owner due to the extremely controversial method that the moderators were using to count the votes. note 
  • Broken Base:
    • Most ban discussions end up as this, but a special mention goes to the discussion of SwagPlay, a "strategy'' which consists of confusing the enemy and increasing his Attack in order to use it against him with Foul Play. The original thread was split between those who wanted all forms of confusion banned and those who felt that banning Swag Play is completely ridiculous and should have never been considered in the first place. In the end, the discussion devolved into such a mess that it was locked. The current consensus seems to be that while it isn't broken and can be beaten out, it's so incredibly Boring but Practical to the point where entire official tournaments hinged on the strategy, and people are just sick of seeing it.
    • Their dedication to 6v6 singles while official tournaments follow doubles format is contentious within the competitive community. A new site, Nugget Bridge, was dedicated to the official VGC format due to Smogon's half-hearted coverage and lack of good players within that format.
  • Casual/Competitive Conflict:
  • Complacent Gaming Syndrome: The site is infamous for how much they love the entry hazard Stealth Rock, to the point that it's almost memetic; virtually every team carries it regardless of what tier is being played since it's just so darn useful. If you're playing on the actual games' random Wifi and doing a Singles battle, you can probably infer whether or not your opponent is from the site based on whether you see Stealth Rock being used.
    • The Gen V metagame was widely hated due to the fact that Politoed's permanent rain caused this. Even after Drizzle and Swift Swim were banned from being used together, it was still powerful enough that few people used anything else, and Smogon refused to put any larger of a ban on it, for fear of Jumping Off the Slippery Slope. About half of all teams used had Weather by the time X and Y were announced.
      • It's generally seen now by those outside of Smogon (and some in it) as the greatest failure of their suspecting process, as even after several bans to nerf the play-styles based around it, Rain still remained extremely dominant. Also, since Gen. V, the current banning philosophy has been far more aggressive and has raised concerns that Smogon is now Jumping Off the Slippery Slope they said they were trying to avoid in trying to avoid something like Gen. V weather teams' dominance from happening again.
  • Creator's Pet:
    • Stall. Most Pokemon that are tested for banning are offensive in nature, and several have been tested specifically because they threaten this one playstyle. What makes this even worse is that the best Special Walls in the game (Chansey and Blissey) have never been put up for testing despite technically being suspect-worthy.Explanation 
    • During Gen V, weather, especially rain teams, got accused of this, thanks to Smogon, in general, favoring weather teams despite outcries of people who were sick of seeing nothing but "weather wars" during said generation. Most of the competitive matchups of that generation boiled down to either two rain teams facing each other, or teams specifically designed to counter rain teams facing rain teams or teams specifically designed to counter rain teams. Despite this falling under the main reason Smogon tends to hit Pokemon with the ban hammernote , Smogon instead put bans on specific abilities or combos such as swift swim in permanent rain instead of finally hitting weather outright. It's telling when most Pokemon online battle simulators offered a mode specifically to address this problemnote  while Smogon still continued to ignore most major complaints about this format to continue to focus on rain oriented teams.
    • The Kami trio also get accusations of this type, due to many bans apparently being made to aid them in the metagame no matter how versatile/broken they may be. However, this may change since Landorus-I is now Kicked Upstairs to Ubers in the ORAS Metagame
  • Fandom Berserk Button: Being a common target for ire in the Pokemon community and a trouble magnet for it has caused Smogon to have little tolerance for trolls and people who invoke Insane Troll Logic as arguments in the forums, especially during suspect tests.
  • Game Breaker: Here.
  • Memetic Badass: Druddigon is commonly referred to by RU players for being the most overpowered pokemon in existence, a great contrast to how it's treated as the most unmemorable Dragon Type in the series by the rest of the fandom.
  • Memetic Loser: Charizard, prior to Gen VI introducing two very strong Mega Evolutions for it. That said, the base form is still considered this, as well as any versions of it in Ubers.
  • Memetic Mutation: Can be found here.
  • Mis-blamed:
  • More Popular Spin-off: Smogon's rules, while not perfect, are widely (but not universally) considered to be superior to the official rules set down by Game Freak/Nintendo.
  • Rescued from the Scrappy Heap: In Gen 6, Charizard's Mega Evolutions made it a legitimately solid choice in higher tiers; Mega Charizard X is essentially Salamence with a better typing and a built-in, recoil-free Life Orb for contact moves, while Mega Charizard Y gets Drought and is the hardest-hitting non-Uber weather inducer. Not to mention that it's often hard for the opponent to predict which Mega Evolution Charizard is packing.
  • Scrub:
    • Averted. Almost everything they ban is determined by community feedback, whether or not the supposed Game Breaker is overcentralizingnote , and ultimately tests with ladder ranking entry requirements. The process is nonetheless prone to groupthink. This was taken into account by disallowing voters from changing their votes.
    • However, if you want Evasion to be legal, the entire competitive community will brand you as one.note  You will also likely ignite a horrible flame war.
      • Ironically, evasion was allowed for Ubers after testing the tier and participants deciding that it isn't that bad due to how powerful everything is there. Doesn't stop a few losses turning into wins due to blind luck every now and then, though.
      • Double Team advocates tend to change their minds after fighting Justy from Colosseum/XD or a Minimize Chansey holding Eviolite.
    • However, Scrub is played straight in the sense that Smogon uses extensive house rules and tries to propagate them outside their community as the only actual balanced rule set.
    • Defending your favorite Pokemon (namely unviable Pokemon and/or starters) against legitimate criticism by invoking Popularity Power will also cause you to be viewed as this. note 
    • Also played straight with casuals who try to adopt Smogon rules and force others to abide by them despite a) not having a single clue what half of them mean and b) not being anywhere near the skill level where those rules start to mean anything.
  • Scrappy Mechanic: Gen V OU is infamous for this. Thanks to the permanent rain given by Politoed, most teams on the simulators ran Weather to either abuse it or counter it, causing the entire meta to revolve around it.
  • Special Effects Failure: Mega Steelix's animation does not loop properly.
  • Tier-Induced Scrappy: Considering what the website is about, you'd expect there'd be a lot.
    • Politoed in Gen V, for causing the Weather Wars, turning the metagame into nothing but Weather Teams and creating a ton of Game Breakers just by its mere presence.
    • Prior to Gen VI, Charizard in any tier above RU (read: the tiers with the best/most used Pokémon) after Generation 4 introduced Stealth Rock, at least to the more experienced players. Especially so in the Uber tier, where Charizard has no business participating in at all. Here's a quick explanation of why.
    • Zig-Zagged with the item Assault Vest. While it's a legitimately good item, newer players tend to slap it on anything that runs sets with 4 attacks (such as Durant) and/or has middling Special Defense, giving it the reputation as a noob item.
    • Electivire. It was hyped up in Gen IV for having massive coverage in one moveset, but Hype Backlash quickly settled in once people found it it was rather slow (its speed is Base 95 when Base 100 is the most important speed stat), too weak (all of its attacks have low Base Power and/or low accuracy), and too predictable (it was often found with Gyarados to try to abuse its ability by switching in to absorb Electric attacks Gyarados would have taken). It was horribly bashed while it was OU in Gen IV and it later dropped down to RU in Gen V (where it also sucked) and finally hit NU in Gen VI. It's still bashed for being a crappy Mon and is massive Snark Bait whenever people use it.
    • Shaymin-S is another infamous example for having a very high special attack and speed stat in conjunction with the annoying combo of Air Slash and Serene Grace. It was loathed so much that it was the first Pokemon to be banned to Ubers unanimously.
    • Claydol in RU. Often used by newer players, because of its seemingly good access to both Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin. However, in reality, Claydol is so flawed that most experienced players regard it as complete trash (in fact, Rarelyused Leader Molk tried to make it work, and publically judged it as the worst Pokémon he's ever used after weeks of testing). While Rapid Spin is a great move to have, Claydol's ability to use it effectively is hampered by the fact that it simply gets dominated by any Ghost-type Pokemon. Not just having its Rapid Spin blocked, but an almost complete inability to get past them otherwise and a weakness to Ghost-type moves to top it all off. On top of this, Claydol's unfortunate defensive typing gives it a weakness to almost every relevant offensive type in the tier, making its good defensive stats almost moot and meaning that even if Claydol ends up getting past a Ghost type somehow, it often gets KOed or forced out before it can pull off a Rapid Spin regardless, and by the time it finally gets an opportunity to Rapid Spin, the entry hazards it's aiming to remove have already done their job. On top of all of that, the buff to Defog in Generation VI to remove hazards from both sides of the field gives it major competition, since Defog cannot be blocked like Rapid Spin. Its standard set is called "DON'T USE CLAYDOL," to give you an idea of its reception.
    • Hitmonchan is considered the worst of the Hitmon brothers due to being outclassed at literally everything it can do. What really sets it in this trope is that many believe that it would perform much better in lower tiers but people won't stop using it in RU. Much like Claydol, Hitmonchan's standard set is called "DON'T USE HITMONCHAN."
    • Mega Gengar is widely despised on Smogon, and for good reason. Unlike the other non-legendary banned Megas (Kangaskhan, Lucario, Salamence and Mawile), Mega Gengar wasn't banned for being a team-annihilating Lightning Bruiser with way too many options and far too few counters (the first three) or a Mighty Glacier with a near-perfect typing and obscene offensive muscle (Mawile), but rather for being able to Perish Trap with absolutely no drawback and force anything going up against it into no-win situations. Played properly, Mega Gengar is completely foolproof, and it was kicked out of OU and into Ubers in less than a month, where it continued to be so obnoxious that it got suspected for banning from Ubers. It stayed, but the fact that a complete ban was even discussed to begin with says an awful lot about how abusive the thing is.
    • Mega Rayquaza was so powerful (Obscene offense, par defense, speed in-between the two, an Ability that reduces weaknesses from any Flying types on the field and can't be overridden, and the ability to use an itemnote ) that it succeeded in which Mega-Gengar failed and has gotten banned from Ubers, resulting in Ubers' graduation from "Glorified OU Banlist" to a legitimate tier as well as the creation of "Anything Goes", a setting where most of the clauses are off and where every Pokémon and Mega is useable.
    • Mega Salamence has also become widely hated for being so transparently broken that, like Mega Rayquaza, it seems unlikely that balance was even considered when making it. Possessed of amazing offenses (145 Attack, 120 Special Attack, 120 Speed), it hits horrifically hard and fast and can easily run Special or mixed sets to make dealing with it a total crapshoot (which is what got Mega Lucario banned more than anything else), but two things really push it over the edge and into the realm of total stupidity: its Defense boost and Aerilate. The former is better than most dedicated walls at 130 and makes it very, very difficult to even scratch while it's ripping through your team or getting ready to (and this doesn't take into consideration the effects of Intimidate before it Mega Evolves), while the latter makes the likes of Return/Frustration, Thrash, Double-Edge, and Hyper Voice hit like nukes. Add this all together and you get the ultimate Lightning Bruiser. Thrown into Ubers in less than a month, it actually wound up being so ridiculous that it actually got banned from Doubles. Mind you, Doubles still allows things like Mega Kangaskhan; in essence, this is like one step away from Mega Rayquaza. That's how bad it is.
    • Dragon types in Gen IV OU before Salamence was banned, due to the DragMagnote  playstyle dominating.
  • Vindicated by History: Happens every now and again, due to people finding things that actually work better than previously thought. Such examples are Rotom-W in Gen IV (an issue of The Smog even said it goes from being mediocre to "a sub-par Lanturn" when the Rotom form type changes were discovered) And Deoxys-D in Gen V, where it was UU for a short period of time before it was discovered how bulky it was.
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