History YMMV / Smogon

30th Jan '16 10:24:07 PM flamemario12
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not sure mons counts, but they were hyped
%% * HypeBacklash: %% ** Electivire is the poster mon of it. Back in Gen IV, it was in OU. But it has several flaws such as having mediocre speed and most of its moves have low Power or low accuracy. Eventually, its usage dropped. %% ** When Mega Gallade became available, players thought Mega Gallade is superior than Mega Medicham. However, this isn't the case. While Mega Gallade has advantages that Mega Medicham does not. Mega Medicham has the ability, Pure Power which doubles its Attack stat therefore it actually hits harder than Mega Gallade. Meanwhile, Mega Gallade has Inner Focus which is considered mostly underwhelming. Ultimately, while Mega Gallade isn't bad, just not better than Mega Medicham.

** Electivire. It was hyped up in Gen IV for having massive coverage in one moveset, but HypeBacklash quickly settled in once people found it it was too slow (its speed is Base 95 when Base 100 is the most important speed stat), too weak (all of its attacks have low Base Power and/or low accuracy), and too predictable (it was often found with Gyarados to try to abuse its ability by switching in to absorb Electric attacks Gyarados would have taken). It was horribly bashed while it was OU in Gen IV and it later dropped down to RU in Gen V (where it also sucked) and finally hit NU in Gen VI. It's still bashed for being a crappy Mon and is massive SnarkBait whenever people use it.
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** Electivire. It was hyped up in Gen IV for having massive coverage in one moveset, but HypeBacklash quickly settled in once people found it it was too rather slow (its speed is Base 95 when Base 100 is the most important speed stat), too weak (all of its attacks have low Base Power and/or low accuracy), and too predictable (it was often found with Gyarados to try to abuse its ability by switching in to absorb Electric attacks Gyarados would have taken). It was horribly bashed while it was OU in Gen IV and it later dropped down to RU in Gen V (where it also sucked) and finally hit NU in Gen VI. It's still bashed for being a crappy Mon and is massive SnarkBait whenever people use it.
25th Jan '16 7:47:40 AM GermanTroper
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Added DiffLines:
** However, {{Scrub}} is played straight in the sense that Smogon uses extensive house rules and tries to propagate them outside their community as the only actual balanced rule set.
20th Jan '16 5:16:31 PM Luigifan
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* AuthorsSavingThrow: The outcome of the Shadow Tag test for Ubers was vetoed by the site owner due to the extremely controversial method that the moderators where using to count the votes. [[note]]For those unaware, the suspect test required anyone that met the conditions to write a paragraph on why they felt Shadow Tag should or shouldn't be banned, which is something that has never been required in any Ubers suspect tests before and was only present in a very small amount beforehand. Said paragraph could be rejected by those in charge of the test, and the two people behind it (until a third, neutral one joined) were very heavily biased towards its ban. Far more than half of the rejected votes were "no ban" on it, changing the outcome from not banning it to banning it. The mods also refused to elaborate when asked.[[/note]]
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* AuthorsSavingThrow: The outcome of the Shadow Tag test for Ubers was vetoed by the site owner due to the extremely controversial method that the moderators where were using to count the votes. [[note]]For those unaware, the suspect test required anyone that met the conditions to write a paragraph on why they felt Shadow Tag should or shouldn't be banned, which is something that has never been required in any Ubers suspect tests before and was only present in a very small amount beforehand. Said paragraph could be rejected by those in charge of the test, and the two people behind it (until a third, neutral one joined) were very heavily biased towards its ban. Far more than half of the rejected votes were "no ban" on it, changing the outcome from not banning it to banning it. The mods also refused to elaborate when asked.[[/note]]

* ComplacentGamingSyndrome: The site is infamous for how much they love the entry hazard Stealth Rock, to the point that it's almost {{memetic|Mutation}}; virtually every team carries it regardless of what tier is being played since it's just so darn useful. If you're playing on the actual games' random Wifi and doing a Singles battle, you can probably infer whether or not your opponent from the site based on whether you see Stealth Rock being used.
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* ComplacentGamingSyndrome: The site is infamous for how much they love the entry hazard Stealth Rock, to the point that it's almost {{memetic|Mutation}}; virtually every team carries it regardless of what tier is being played since it's just so darn useful. If you're playing on the actual games' random Wifi and doing a Singles battle, you can probably infer whether or not your opponent is from the site based on whether you see Stealth Rock being used.

%%** [[http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1898145&postcount=13 Pimpoleon]], King of the [[http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/nigger-cup.81371/ N*gger Cup]].
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%%** ** [[http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1898145&postcount=13 Pimpoleon]], King of the [[http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/nigger-cup.81371/ N*gger Cup]].

** Use Numel [[labelnote:Explanation]]When the Swag Play tactic was being discussed, some users brought up this Pokemon, by virtue of it being the only one immune both to confusion and paralysis, and therefore, the only hard counter to this strategy. The catch? [[ThisLooksLikeAJobForAquaman Numel is a terrible Pokemon in every other way]][[/labelnote]]
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** Use Numel [[labelnote:Explanation]]When the Swag Play tactic was being discussed, some users brought up this Pokemon, by virtue of it being the only one immune both to confusion and paralysis, and therefore, the only hard counter to this strategy. The catch? [[ThisLooksLikeAJobForAquaman Numel is a terrible Pokemon Pokémon in every other way]][[/labelnote]]way]]. And Numel's not actually immune to paralysis in general, just Thunder Wave.[[/labelnote]]

** Tactical Luke[[labelnote:Explanation]]A user on the simulator was running a Mega Lucario with Aura Sphere (which is normal), Dark Pulse and Shadow Ball (which have Identical Super Effective Coverage), and Foresight [[UselessUsefulSpell (which lets Normal- and Fighting-Type attacks hit Ghosts, which this set can hit anyway because of Dark Pulse and Shadow Ball)]]. When asked about their set, they replied with [[InsaneTrollLogic "It is tactical"]].[[/labelnote]]
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** Tactical Luke[[labelnote:Explanation]]A user on the simulator was running a Mega Lucario with Aura Sphere (which is normal), Dark Pulse and Shadow Ball (which have Identical identical Super Effective Coverage), and Foresight [[UselessUsefulSpell (which lets Normal- and Fighting-Type attacks hit Ghosts, which this set can hit anyway because of Dark Pulse and Shadow Ball)]]. When asked about their set, they replied with [[InsaneTrollLogic "It is tactical"]].[[/labelnote]]

** [[SarcasmMode Free/Unban x, y counters it]] [[labelnote:Explanation]] A sarcastic retort to players who think something shouldn't be banned or should be unbanned because a counter exists to it, [[CripplingOverspecialization even though most counters to]] {{Game Breaker}}s [[CripplingOverspecialization tend to be useless outside of countering them]]. One of the most common versions of this is "Free [[OlympusMons Kyogre]], Gastrodon counters it," since Kyogre is infamous for being able to kill almost anything in the game in two hits with Water Spout [[ScissorsCutsRock even things that resist it like Ferrothorn or Eviolite Chansey, the most Specially Defensive Pokemon in existence]]. The only reason Gastrodon is a "counter" is because its immune to Water Spout thanks to Storm Drain, but can't really do anything back to it.[[/labelnote]]
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** [[SarcasmMode Free/Unban x, y counters it]] [[labelnote:Explanation]] A [[labelnote:Explanation]]A sarcastic retort to players who think something shouldn't be banned or should be unbanned because a counter exists to it, [[CripplingOverspecialization even though most counters to]] {{Game Breaker}}s [[CripplingOverspecialization tend to be useless outside of countering them]]. One of the most common versions of this is "Free [[OlympusMons Kyogre]], Gastrodon counters it," since Kyogre is infamous for being able to kill almost anything in the game in two hits with Water Spout [[ScissorsCutsRock ([[ScissorsCutsRock even things that resist it it, like Ferrothorn Ferrothorn, or Eviolite Chansey, the most Specially Defensive Pokemon in existence]]. existence]]). The only reason Gastrodon is a "counter" is because its it's immune to Water Spout thanks to Storm Drain, but can't really do anything back to it.[[/labelnote]]

** RU Pride [[labelnote:Explanation]]During Generation 5 a user by the name of tsunami would ask people on IRC for 5 random Pokemon (nicknamed after the people who suggested them) to make up a team he would battle with live for the chat. The random teams were eventual dubbed "RU Pride" for only using Pokemon tiered RU or lower, [[SelfImposedChallenge even in UU or OU matches]].[[/labelnote]] *** Mightyena [[labelnote:Explanation]]The last Pokemon on the team was always a Mightyena nickednamed after tsunami. It was discovered to be legitimately dangerous since it could solo unprepared teams after a [[KillStreak Moxie]] boost.[[/labelnote]]
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** RU Pride [[labelnote:Explanation]]During Generation 5 5, a user by the name of tsunami would ask people on IRC for 5 random Pokemon (nicknamed after the people who suggested them) to make up a team he would battle with live for the chat. The random teams were eventual eventually dubbed "RU Pride" for only using Pokemon tiered RU or lower, [[SelfImposedChallenge even in UU or OU matches]].[[/labelnote]] *** Mightyena [[labelnote:Explanation]]The last Pokemon on the team was always a Mightyena nickednamed nicknamed after tsunami. It was discovered to be legitimately dangerous since it could solo unprepared teams after a [[KillStreak Moxie]] boost.[[/labelnote]]

* ScrappyMechanic: Gen V OU is infamous for this. Thanks to [[GameBreaker the Permanent Rain given by Politoed]], most teams on the simulators ran Weather to either abuse it or counter it, ausing the entire meta to revolve around it.
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* ScrappyMechanic: Gen V OU is infamous for this. Thanks to [[GameBreaker the Permanent Rain permanent rain given by Politoed]], most teams on the simulators ran Weather to either abuse it or counter it, ausing causing the entire meta to revolve around it.

** Claydol in RU. Often used by newer players, because of its seemingly good access to both Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin. However, in reality, Claydol is so flawed that most experienced players regard it as complete trash (in fact, Rarelyused Leader Molk tried to make it work, and publically judged it as the worst Pokemon he's ever used after weeks of testing). While Rapid Spin is a great move to have, Claydol's ability to use it effectively is hampered by the fact that it simply gets dominated by any Ghost-type Pokemon. Not just having its Rapid Spin blocked, but an almost complete inability to get past them otherwise and a weakness to Ghost-type moves to top it all off. On top of this, Claydol's unfortunate defensive typing gives it a weakness to almost every relevant offensive type in the tier, making its good defensive stats almost moot and meaning that even if Claydol ends up getting past a Ghost type somehow, it often gets [=KOed=] or forced out before it can pull off a Rapid Spin regardless, ''[[YouAreTooLate and by the time it finally gets an opportunity to Rapid Spin, the entry hazards it's aiming to remove have already done their job]]''. On top of all of that, the buff to Defog in Generation VI to remove hazards from both sides of the field gives it major competition, since Defog cannot be blocked like Rapid Spin. Its standard set is called "DON'T USE CLAYDOL," to give you an idea of its reception.
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** Claydol in RU. Often used by newer players, because of its seemingly good access to both Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin. However, in reality, Claydol is so flawed that most experienced players regard it as complete trash (in fact, Rarelyused Leader Molk tried to make it work, and publically judged it as the worst Pokemon Pokémon he's ever used after weeks of testing). While Rapid Spin is a great move to have, Claydol's ability to use it effectively is hampered by the fact that it simply gets dominated by any Ghost-type Pokemon. Not just having its Rapid Spin blocked, but an almost complete inability to get past them otherwise and a weakness to Ghost-type moves to top it all off. On top of this, Claydol's unfortunate defensive typing gives it a weakness to almost every relevant offensive type in the tier, making its good defensive stats almost moot and meaning that even if Claydol ends up getting past a Ghost type somehow, it often gets [=KOed=] or forced out before it can pull off a Rapid Spin regardless, ''[[YouAreTooLate and by the time it finally gets an opportunity to Rapid Spin, the entry hazards it's aiming to remove have already done their job]]''. On top of all of that, the buff to Defog in Generation VI to remove hazards from both sides of the field gives it major competition, since Defog cannot be blocked like Rapid Spin. Its standard set is called "DON'T USE CLAYDOL," to give you an idea of its reception.

** Mega Rayquaza was so powerful (Obscene offense, par defense, speed in-between the two, an Ability that reduces weaknesses from any Flying types on the field and can't be overridden, and the ability to use an item[[note]]Mega-Evolving a Pokémon requires them to hold a species-specified item. Raquayza instead needs to know the move "Dragon Ascent", which is powerful in its own right.[[/note]]) that it succeeded in which Mega-Gengar failed and gotten '''''banned from Ubers'''''. Resulting in Ubers graduation from "Glorified OU Banlist" to a legitimate tier as well as the creation of "Anything Goes", a setting where most of the clauses are off and where every Pokémon ''and'' Mega is useable.
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** Mega Rayquaza was so powerful (Obscene offense, par defense, speed in-between the two, an Ability that reduces weaknesses from any Flying types on the field and can't be overridden, and the ability to use an item[[note]]Mega-Evolving a Pokémon requires them to hold a species-specified item. Raquayza instead needs to know the move "Dragon Ascent", which is powerful in its own right.[[/note]]) that it succeeded in which Mega-Gengar failed and has gotten '''''banned from Ubers'''''. Resulting Ubers''''', resulting in Ubers Ubers' graduation from "Glorified OU Banlist" to a legitimate tier as well as the creation of "Anything Goes", a setting where most of the clauses are off and where every Pokémon ''and'' Mega is useable.
8th Dec '15 1:08:28 PM Thepenguinking2
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** Inversely, Smogonites tend to be considered AcceptableTargets by Youtube commenters [[OlderThanTheyThink (and long before Verlisify existed too)]], to the point where [[{{Scrub}} uploading a battle using a Smogon moveset will immidiately get you flamed]]. [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement Which is probably why the situation tends to get so ugly.]] * AmericansHateTingle: Given that at least [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff Americans, if not the whole of the English speaking world, loves Charizard]], it is quite ironic that Charizard was generally hated amongst Smogoners (also predominantly English-language based) until the 6th Generation. Justified due to Charizard actually being not very useful until the buff for Generation 6, and Scrubs attempting to use Charizard regardless adding to the ire. See the TierInducedScrappy, and TheScrappy entry within the Pokémon pages.
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** Inversely, Smogonites tend to be considered AcceptableTargets this by Youtube commenters [[OlderThanTheyThink (and long before Verlisify existed too)]], to the point where [[{{Scrub}} uploading a battle using a Smogon moveset will immidiately immediately get you flamed]]. [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement Which is probably why the situation tends to get so ugly.]] * AmericansHateTingle: Given that at least [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff Americans, if not the whole of the English speaking world, loves Charizard]], it is quite ironic that Charizard was generally hated amongst Smogoners (also predominantly English-language based) until the 6th Generation. Justified due to Charizard actually being not very useful until the buff for Generation 6, and Scrubs attempting to use Charizard regardless adding to the ire. See the TierInducedScrappy, and TheScrappy entry within the Pokémon pages.

* BaseBreaker: Most ban discussions end up as this, but a special mention goes to the discussion of [=SwagPlay=], a [[LuckBasedMission "strategy'']] which consists of [[StandardStatusEffects confusing the enemy]] and increasing his Attack in order to [[HoistByHisOwnPetard use it against him with Foul Play]]. The [[http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/swagplay-evaluating-potential-bans-basic-definition-of-uncompetitive-in-op.3500620/ original thread]] was split between those who wanted all forms of confusion banned and those who felt that banning Swag Play is [[{{Scrub}} completely ridiculous]] and should have never been considered in the first place. In the end, the discussion devolved into such a mess that it was locked. The current consensus seems to be that while it isn't broken and can be beaten out, it's [[CombatPragmatism so incredibly]] BoringButPractical to the point where entire official tournaments hinged on the strategy, and people are just sick of seeing it.
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* BaseBreaker: BrokenBase: ** Most ban discussions end up as this, but a special mention goes to the discussion of [=SwagPlay=], a [[LuckBasedMission "strategy'']] which consists of [[StandardStatusEffects confusing the enemy]] and increasing his Attack in order to [[HoistByHisOwnPetard use it against him with Foul Play]]. The [[http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/swagplay-evaluating-potential-bans-basic-definition-of-uncompetitive-in-op.3500620/ original thread]] was split between those who wanted all forms of confusion banned and those who felt that banning Swag Play is [[{{Scrub}} completely ridiculous]] and should have never been considered in the first place. In the end, the discussion devolved into such a mess that it was locked. The current consensus seems to be that while it isn't broken and can be beaten out, it's [[CombatPragmatism so incredibly]] BoringButPractical to the point where entire official tournaments hinged on the strategy, and people are just sick of seeing it.

** [[SchmuckBait Go ahead]]. Mention the place ''[[FlameBait anywhere]]'' outside of its own forums. [[DisproportionateRetribution I hear it's fashionable to limp around with only half of your face left]].
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** [[SchmuckBait Go ahead]]. Mention the place ''[[FlameBait anywhere]]'' outside of its own forums. [[DisproportionateRetribution I hear Believe it or not, it's fashionable to limp around with only half of your face left]].

** [[FanNickname Focus Miss]] [[labelnote:Explanation]]The move Focus Blast is necessary on some competitive sets, due to it being the strongest specially-based Fighting-type attack appearing in most movepools... but its accuracy, at 70%, is far lower than is typically acceptable for competitive play. A Focus Blast miss typically costs the user the game, or at least considerable momentum, and is the cause of many a RageQuit. The move has attracted a sizeable {{Hatedom}} as a result of this.[[/labelnote]]
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** [[FanNickname Focus Miss]] [[labelnote:Explanation]]The move Focus Blast is necessary on some competitive sets, due to it being the strongest specially-based Fighting-type attack appearing in most movepools... [[PowerfulButInaccurate but its accuracy, at 70%, is far lower than is typically acceptable for competitive play.play]]. A Focus Blast miss typically costs the user the game, or at least considerable momentum, and is the cause of many a RageQuit. The move has attracted a sizeable {{Hatedom}} as a result of this.[[/labelnote]]
24th Nov '15 2:19:19 PM Heartlesswithaheart
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Elaborating on the Shadow Tag test.
* AuthorsSavingThrow: The outcome of the Shadow Tag test for Ubers was vetoed by the site owner due to the extremely controversial method that the moderators where using to count the votes.
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* AuthorsSavingThrow: The outcome of the Shadow Tag test for Ubers was vetoed by the site owner due to the extremely controversial method that the moderators where using to count the votes. [[note]]For those unaware, the suspect test required anyone that met the conditions to write a paragraph on why they felt Shadow Tag should or shouldn't be banned, which is something that has never been required in any Ubers suspect tests before and was only present in a very small amount beforehand. Said paragraph could be rejected by those in charge of the test, and the two people behind it (until a third, neutral one joined) were very heavily biased towards its ban. Far more than half of the rejected votes were "no ban" on it, changing the outcome from not banning it to banning it. The mods also refused to elaborate when asked.[[/note]]

*** It's generally seen now by those outside of Smogon as the greatest failure of their suspecting process, as even after several bans to nerf the play-styles based around it, Rain still remained extremely dominant. Also, since Gen. V, the current banning philosophy has been far more aggressive and has raised concerns that Smogon is now JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope they said they were trying to avoid in trying to avoid something like Gen. V weather teams' dominance from happening again.
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*** It's generally seen now by those outside of Smogon (and some in it) as the greatest failure of their suspecting process, as even after several bans to nerf the play-styles based around it, Rain still remained extremely dominant. Also, since Gen. V, the current banning philosophy has been far more aggressive and has raised concerns that Smogon is now JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope they said they were trying to avoid in trying to avoid something like Gen. V weather teams' dominance from happening again.
16th Nov '15 6:11:01 PM JRads47
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* ScrappyMechanic: Gen V OU is infamous for this. Thanks to [[GameBreaker the Permanent Rain given by Politoed]], most teams on the simulators ran Weather to either abuse it or counter it, [[ItsAllAboutMe causing the entire meta to revolve around it]].
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* ScrappyMechanic: Gen V OU is infamous for this. Thanks to [[GameBreaker the Permanent Rain given by Politoed]], most teams on the simulators ran Weather to either abuse it or counter it, [[ItsAllAboutMe causing ausing the entire meta to revolve around it]].it. * SpecialEffectsFailure: [[http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/steelix/ Mega Steelix's animation]] does not loop properly.
16th Nov '15 7:21:21 AM Thepenguinking2
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Removing "See X below" example. Also, if all the scrappies are Tier Induced Scrappies, why not just make it a Tier Induced Scrappy example?
* MemeticBadass: Druddigon. See MemeticMutation below for the reason why.
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* MemeticBadass: Druddigon. See MemeticMutation below Druddigon is commonly referred to by RU players for being the reason why.most overpowered pokemon in existence.

* TheScrappy: Any TierInducedScrappy, due to the communities focus on gameplay.
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* TheScrappy: Any TierInducedScrappy, {{Scrub}}: ** {{Averted|Trope}}. Almost everything they ban is determined by community feedback, whether or not the supposed GameBreaker is overcentralizing[[note]]becomes so common that you are required to run something to counter it specifically, regardless of what kind of team you are running[[/note]], and ultimately tests with ladder ranking entry requirements. The process is nonetheless prone to groupthink. This was taken into account by [[ObviousRulePatch disallowing voters from changing their votes]]. ** However, if you want [[GameBreaker Evasion]] to be legal, the entire competitive community will brand you as one.[[note]]Evasion is so universally hated that one of the most common HouseRules outside of simulator play is to ban it, since it forces a LuckBasedMission on the opponent that they have no control over. It's also impossible to completely counter, since most [[AlwaysAccurateAttack perfect accuracy attacks]] [[UselessUsefulSpell are too weak to use]], Switch Out Moves have negative priority and are blocked by Taunt, and literally every Pokémon that can learn [=TMs=] (read: all but 5 or so) can be taught Double Team (the main evasion attack). Since Smogon promotes skill-based playing over luck, [[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope legalizing Evasion would go against everything they have stood for since its inception]].[[/note]] [[http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/evasion.3490307/ You will also likely ignite a horrible flame war.]] *** Ironically, evasion was allowed for Ubers after testing the tier and participants deciding that it isn't that bad due to how powerful everything is there. Doesn't stop a few losses turning into wins due to blind luck every now and then, though. *** Double Team advocates tend to change their minds after fighting [[http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Justy Justy]] from Colosseum/XD or a [[NighInvulnerable Minimize Chansey holding Eviolite]]. ** WhiteKnighting your favorite Pokémon, especially starters, against legitimate criticism by invoking PopularityPower will also cause you to be viewed as this. [[note]]For reference, this ''is'' the communities focus reason for Charizard's Scrappy Status in past gens.[[/note]] ** Also played straight with casuals who try to adopt Smogon rules and force others to abide by them despite a) not having a single clue what half of them mean and b) not being anywhere near the skill level where those rules start to mean anything. * ScrappyMechanic: Gen V OU is infamous for this. Thanks to [[GameBreaker the Permanent Rain given by Politoed]], most teams on gameplay.the simulators ran Weather to either abuse it or counter it, [[ItsAllAboutMe causing the entire meta to revolve around it]]. %%StopHavingFunGuys is banned from examples. Please do not add it. * TierInducedScrappy: Considering what the website is about, you'd expect there'd be a lot.

* {{Scrub}}: ** {{Averted|Trope}}. Almost everything they ban is determined by community feedback, whether or not the supposed GameBreaker is overcentralizing[[note]]becomes so common that you are required to run something to counter it specifically, regardless of what kind of team you are running[[/note]], and ultimately tests with ladder ranking entry requirements. The process is nonetheless prone to groupthink. This was taken into account by [[ObviousRulePatch disallowing voters from changing their votes]]. ** However, if you want [[GameBreaker Evasion]] to be legal, the entire competitive community will brand you as one.[[note]]Evasion is so universally hated that one of the most common HouseRules outside of simulator play is to ban it, since it forces a LuckBasedMission on the opponent that they have no control over. It's also impossible to completely counter, since most [[AlwaysAccurateAttack perfect accuracy attacks]] [[UselessUsefulSpell are too weak to use]], Switch Out Moves have negative priority and are blocked by Taunt, and literally every Pokémon that can learn [=TMs=] (read: all but 5 or so) can be taught Double Team (the main evasion attack). Since Smogon promotes skill-based playing over luck, [[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope legalizing Evasion would go against everything they have stood for since its inception]].[[/note]] [[http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/evasion.3490307/ You will also likely ignite a horrible flame war.]] *** Ironically, evasion was allowed for Ubers after testing the tier and participants deciding that it isn't that bad due to how powerful everything is there. Doesn't stop a few losses turning into wins due to blind luck every now and then, though. *** Double Team advocates tend to change their minds after fighting [[http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Justy Justy]] from Colosseum/XD or a [[NighInvulnerable Minimize Chansey holding Eviolite]]. ** WhiteKnighting your favorite Pokémon, especially starters, against legitimate criticism by invoking PopularityPower will also cause you to be viewed as this. [[note]]For reference, this ''is'' the reason for Charizard's Scrappy Status in past gens.[[/note]] ** Also played straight with casuals who try to adopt Smogon rules and force others to abide by them despite a) not having a single clue what half of them mean and b) not being anywhere near the skill level where those rules start to mean anything. * ScrappyMechanic: Gen V OU is infamous for this. Thanks to [[GameBreaker the Permanent Rain given by Politoed]], most teams on the simulators ran Weather to either abuse it or counter it, [[ItsAllAboutMe causing the entire meta to revolve around it]]. * StopHavingFunGuys: As mentioned above, mostly {{averted|Trope}}. A diverse metagame is outright encouraged by the suspect test process. They don't have much of a tolerance for {{Scrub}}s, though.. ** As mentioned above, it's not so much the site itself that has a reputation for this, it's people who bring its rules outside the site and try to enforce them, since they tend to act really smug. Also, the rules and strategies were specifically designed for 6v6 Single matches, which are generally not natively supported in regular pvp in-game and thus is for Showdown (not to mention that if you use said strategies in Doubles, they usually don't work).
12th Nov '15 9:15:44 PM bwburke94
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It's spelled "Politoed" dammit
** The Gen V metagame was widely hated due to the fact that Politoad's permanent rain caused this. Even after Drizzle and Swift Swim were banned from being used together, it was still powerful enough that few people used anything else, and Smogon refused to put any larger of a ban on it, for fear of JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope. About half of all teams used had Weather by the time ''X and Y'' were announced.
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** The Gen V metagame was widely hated due to the fact that Politoad's Politoed's permanent rain caused this. Even after Drizzle and Swift Swim were banned from being used together, it was still powerful enough that few people used anything else, and Smogon refused to put any larger of a ban on it, for fear of JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope. About half of all teams used had Weather by the time ''X and Y'' were announced.
22nd Oct '15 2:36:08 AM Grobi
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Red link cleanup.
* BaseBreaker: Most ban discussions end up as this, but a special mention goes to the discussion of SwagPlay, a [[LuckBasedMission "strategy'']] which consists of [[StandardStatusEffects confusing the enemy]] and increasing his Attack in order to [[HoistByHisOwnPetard use it against him with Foul Play]]. The [[http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/swagplay-evaluating-potential-bans-basic-definition-of-uncompetitive-in-op.3500620/ original thread]] was split between those who wanted all forms of confusion banned and those who felt that banning Swag Play is [[{{Scrub}} completely ridiculous]] and should have never been considered in the first place. In the end, the discussion devolved into such a mess that it was locked. The current consensus seems to be that while it isn't broken and can be beaten out, it's [[CombatPragmatism so incredibly]] BoringButPractical to the point where entire official tournaments hinged on the strategy, and people are just sick of seeing it.
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* BaseBreaker: Most ban discussions end up as this, but a special mention goes to the discussion of SwagPlay, [=SwagPlay=], a [[LuckBasedMission "strategy'']] which consists of [[StandardStatusEffects confusing the enemy]] and increasing his Attack in order to [[HoistByHisOwnPetard use it against him with Foul Play]]. The [[http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/swagplay-evaluating-potential-bans-basic-definition-of-uncompetitive-in-op.3500620/ original thread]] was split between those who wanted all forms of confusion banned and those who felt that banning Swag Play is [[{{Scrub}} completely ridiculous]] and should have never been considered in the first place. In the end, the discussion devolved into such a mess that it was locked. The current consensus seems to be that while it isn't broken and can be beaten out, it's [[CombatPragmatism so incredibly]] BoringButPractical to the point where entire official tournaments hinged on the strategy, and people are just sick of seeing it.

** 4drag2mag[[labelnote:Explanation]][[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin A team composed of 4 Dragon-types and 2 Magnet Pull users]]. The Magnet Pull users (usually Magnezone and Magneton) would trap and eliminate Steel-types so the Dragons could spam [[SpamAttack Outrage]] without being walled and pretty much assure victory. It was at its peak in Gens IV and V but died down when Fairies were introduced in Gen VI. A mutation, "DragMag", refers to any team with a Dragon-type and offensive Steel-type regardless if they're following the original strategy or not.[[/labelnote]]
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** 4drag2mag[[labelnote:Explanation]][[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin A team composed of 4 Dragon-types and 2 Magnet Pull users]]. The Magnet Pull users (usually Magnezone and Magneton) would trap and eliminate Steel-types so the Dragons could spam [[SpamAttack Outrage]] without being walled and pretty much assure victory. It was at its peak in Gens IV and V but died down when Fairies were introduced in Gen VI. A mutation, "DragMag", "[=DragMag=]", refers to any team with a Dragon-type and offensive Steel-type regardless if they're following the original strategy or not.[[/labelnote]]

** However, if you want [[GameBreaker Evasion]] to be legal, the entire competitive community will brand you as one.[[note]]Evasion is so universally hated that one of the most common HouseRules outside of simulator play is to ban it, since it forces a LuckBasedMission on the opponent that they have no control over. It's also impossible to completely counter, since most [[AlwaysAccurateAttack perfect accuracy attacks]] [[UselessUsefulSpell are too weak to use]], SwitchOutMoves have negative priority and are blocked by Taunt, and literally every Pokémon that can learn [=TMs=] (read: all but 5 or so) can be taught Double Team (the main evasion attack). Since Smogon promotes skill-based playing over luck, [[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope legalizing Evasion would go against everything they have stood for since its inception]].[[/note]] [[http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/evasion.3490307/ You will also likely ignite a horrible flame war.]]
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** However, if you want [[GameBreaker Evasion]] to be legal, the entire competitive community will brand you as one.[[note]]Evasion is so universally hated that one of the most common HouseRules outside of simulator play is to ban it, since it forces a LuckBasedMission on the opponent that they have no control over. It's also impossible to completely counter, since most [[AlwaysAccurateAttack perfect accuracy attacks]] [[UselessUsefulSpell are too weak to use]], SwitchOutMoves Switch Out Moves have negative priority and are blocked by Taunt, and literally every Pokémon that can learn [=TMs=] (read: all but 5 or so) can be taught Double Team (the main evasion attack). Since Smogon promotes skill-based playing over luck, [[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope legalizing Evasion would go against everything they have stood for since its inception]].[[/note]] [[http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/evasion.3490307/ You will also likely ignite a horrible flame war.]]
25th Sep '15 8:33:59 PM Eagal
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Not a YMMV trope
* SkillGateCharacter: Eviolite Doublade in RU. Thanks to Doublade's great Attack stat, incredible coverage, excellent Steel/Ghost typing, and absolutely absurd physical defense, players who are new to the RU tier often build teams that can't even hurt Doublade, let alone take it out, which often causes it to be mistaken for a GameBreaker among newbies. However, Doublade's poor Special Defense and Speed stats, reliance on moves with low base power, and vulnerability to the ever common move Knock Off (which doesn't just hit the sword super effectively, but immediately cuts its defenses because of its reliance on the item Eviolite) can be taken advantage of quite easily by someone who knows what they're doing, and cause it to be viewed as a perfectly manageable (albiet still threatening) Pokemon in higher level play.
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