open/close all folders
The Roots of Anti-Mutant Racism
- Question: Why are people so aggressive against mutants in general in the Marvel Universe? It seems suicidal. At least being aggressive against Muslims, Gays, or black people provides an easy target; making a mutant or superhero angry could result in your head getting blown off. It's like attacking a firearms convention. I don't read comics, but I thought of this after seeing the new X-Men movie, where the US and Russian governments decide to fire on Xavier's team. When dealing with people with unknown, extremely deadly powers, wouldn't a sensible person try not to make enemies?
- Well, most mutants, pre M-Day, were easy targets, as beforehand there was millions of mutants with benign powers, as I and another person mentioned previously. The ones that are dangerous that get attacked are just idiots. Over in England, its common for Chavs to try and start fights with people they likely can't win against (including Cops or people way stronger than them) because, simply, they're idiots who think getting beaten up by a cop is a great way to look tough. As for the First Class moment, I guess it was a "OMG look at those people they break all laws of physics or logic that I have come to believe as fact! Kill them! Burn them to death with fiery explosions!"-type reaction. At the same time, its also meant to be portrayed as negative behavior, and as such is portrayed as logic breaking as possible to show you that what they do is wrong.
- In addition, anti-mutant racists tend to be very smart about whether or not they're Bullying a Dragon. They're either equipped with Power Nullifiers or cybernetic enhancements to suppress mutant powers or their targets are easy ones as mentioned above. Also, I don't know if this was the case in the comics but in the animated series, they attacked humans who sympathized with mutants too. Obviously if they were genuinely concerned about dangerous and evil mutants, the Friends of Humanity and the Brotherhood of Mutants would duke it out in an epic Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny, wipe each other out and leave only the X-Men as the positive examples of mutants, or at least try to do something about evil ones.
But your question wasn't just about anti-mutant racists, it was about all of the Marvel U being filled with reindeer. The most commonly given reasons (Pre-M-day) are thus
- The fear that mutants will enslave or replace humans because they're genetically superior.
- Rev. Stryker and some other religiously-motivated enemies think mutants are demons or demon spawned.
- The overall anger/discontent with the collateral damage that mutant-on-mutant battles cause.
- Fears that mutancy can "spread", so if a mutant is in your neighborhood, he has to be killed before he irradiates you or your family, turning them into mutants.
- This one actually seems to be true in the Marvel Universe.
- This is actually a question that bothers me a lot. Nearly every adaptation I've seen, as well as the 616 comics themselves, featured the X-Men as an established organization before the anti-mutant racism kicked in. This creates the very uncomfortable Fridge Logic that the reason people hate and fear mutants so much is because their first real exposure to mutants is Charles Xavier and Magneto's mutants trying to kill each other in American cities, destroying much property and endangering many lives on a constant basis. Couple that with the self-imposed segregation that mutants impose on themselves (even the X-Men have always lived apart from humanity, locked up in their secret mansion with holograms/psychic suggestions/what have you preventing people from locating them), then add in the fact that they labeled themselves homo superior and, ultimately, what this amounts to for the common man who doesn't know the full story is a mysterious race of individuals with destructive powers who arrogantly title themselves as humanity's betters, refuse to be a part of human society, and only ever come out of their hiding places to wreak destruction and havoc on human civilization. Is it really any wonder that people are so afraid?
- Might be a good time to point out that the very term "Homo Superior" was basically propaganda by Magneto; the original and more accurate term was "Homo Mutatis". So the fact that everyone is using it means that mutants are implicitly encouraged to think of themselves as a Master Race, whether they realize it or not. And humans are implicitly encouraged to think that all mutants believe that. Doesn't help at all that many humans and mutants (and writers) really do believe they are the next step in "human evolution" (even though that's not what evolution actually means) rather than a scientific experiment by space gods conducted for some ambiguous purpose, and that most distant future stories don't really depict mutants as actually being any more prominent or populous than any other time.
Mr Sinister is an idiot
- Cyclops spent his childhood in Sinister's orphanage, so it would be no problem for him to get Scott's DNA sample. He also had a DNA sample of Jean, as evidenced by Madelyn's creation. So the thing is: why wait till Scott & Jean make their babies and then send him a clone when she dies before it's accomplished? Wouldn't it be much easier to just clone Scott and Jean both several times, and closely observe their little super-powerful mutant kids in safety of his lab without anyone knowing about them? Besides, Conservation of Ninjutsu notwithstanding, a horde of them would have more chances to take out Apocalypse for good.
- This is actually what he did in the Age of Apocalypse, which is where X-Man came from and which makes it even weirder.
- But didn't X-Man rebel against him and refuse to work for him? Mister Sinister is supposed to know about the AoA universe which is why he ordered the Morlock Massacre since they were formed by Dark Beast, who escaped the AoA universe.
- He knew the alternate time line existed, and that someone had obtained access to that timeline's version of his technology. That doesn't mean he knew any details. We also don't know when he became aware of it, just that it was some time before the massacre, so it could have been long after he'd set his 616 breeding experiments in place.
Omega Sentinels. Or rather the tech behind them
- So how are mutants scary to normal humans anymore when there is technology out there that can make a normal human more powerful than 99% of the mutant population?
- Because, Mutants are different to them, while Omega Sentinels are just a bunch of Machines.
- Because if people weren't scared of mutants, Marvel couldn't keep hammering the "racism is bad, mmmkay?" Aesop.
- Actually, that is why they don't use Omegas anymore. They got too destructive and then SHIELD shut down Operation: Zero Tolerance.
- Omega Sentinels weren't created by humans for human benefit. They were made by a couple of robots programmed to kill mutants who just thought it was a good idea.
- But it remains a valid question, as myriad means of Super Empowering exist on Marvel Earth. Genetic Engineering Is the New Nuke and any seriously committed Mad Scientist could provide biological or technological enhancements that equate natural super powers. Gadgeteer Genius types alone have found a multitude of ways for becoming the Jack-of-All-Stats of superhumanity!
Considering that the X-Men are all about peace/coexistence with humans, why don't the X-Men reach out to more humans?
- Most of their human allies are people like Moira McTaggert who conveniently help mutants but why do they ignore non-mutant superhumans like in Runaways? They'd have more credibility if the X-Mansion was explicitly open to all non-mutant superhumans who need help/training with their powers. I point this out because in Ultimate X-Men, Emma Frost's mutant academy allows all talented/gifted persons without regard to their origins.
- They did once; it caused a riot and killed at least two students.
- Keep in mind that most of them don't want to associate themselves with mutants and vice versa. Superpowered humans didn't want to get involved in the Mutant Registration Act and most mutants, specifically the X-Men, stayed the hell out of the Civil War. There were times in the comics where they tried to recruit the help of characters like Spider-Man (who is also an outcast) but they didn't want to get mixed up in mutant affairs.
- They do, but Muggle Power kicks in and human supporting characters are the first to be killed off whenever a writer needs a Tonight, Someone Dies issue. No codename and powers = no marketability = no reason to keep them alive.
- Imho the problem is that the X-Men's intentions of peaceful coexistence and understanding do not match their actions. Yes they regularly save the lives of those who hate and fear them and provide a safe place for mutants to learn about their powers. But they also actively segregate themselves from the very society they want to coexist peacefully with and their main method for training new mutants in how to use their powers is through extensive combat training which only serves to make them fighters rather than peaceful neighbours. Anti-mutant prejudice, like all forms of prejudice, stems largely from fear and lack of understanding and by hiding themselves away and isolating themselves from society the x-men are only encouraging that fear and lack of understanding. After all from the general publics perspective the X-Men and their students spend their time hiding out at some privately owned mansion/island undergoing combat training and usually only show their faces in public when giant robots, space aliens, rogue mutants or something else that cause lots of property damage and civilian casualties occurs. As for the x-students the isolation can't be good for them. Yes their safe from the anti-mutant persecution but since the only people they have to interact with are other mutants all with similar experiences of being discriminated against both physically and verbally by ordinary humans it just encourages the idea that ordinary humans are a bunch of bigots who will never understand or accept them. Also getting the idea drummed into them that that they should only use their powers for good to protect mankind whilst well intentioned has strong potential to backfire by making them believe that humans are lesser beings for always needing mutants to rescue them and never being gracious enough to say thank you. Its a wonder the x-students don't all grow up to become mini Magnetos.
- Not true, at all. It's not as if Xavier or Cyclops is building a slum or forcing mutants to use certain bathrooms. Yes, he opened up a home for mutants, but unlike Segregation, its completely voluntary. The Xavier Institute is a school and Utopia is more along the lines of an island retreat; nobody is forced to go. Secondly, the whole 'fighting' thing is for the same reason rape victims tend to take similar training: To defend themselves. A large number of X-Men show up after being attacked for their mutations, and they interact with other mutants (and by becoming superheroes get to meet friendly non-mutant faces or meet Moira/Nurse Anne/Dr Rao/the current pro-mutant human of the decade in order to show them not all mutants hate them), along with classes in ethics and such (taught by a former villain, but that's beside the point) which teach them how they should trust humans once they get to know them. There is plenty of mutants who attend Xavier's and believe humans are all bigots, and do become mini-Magnetos, but that's specifically treated as a negative thing. Its been shown a few times that when a student expresses similar opinions one of the other X-Men will encourage them to think differently.
- Just because its voluntary doesn't mean its not segregation. By choosing to live apart from the rest of humanity in their little utopian colonies like the mansion or their nation of Utopia they are actively segregating themselves from the rest of the world. Yes there is usually a human character or two hanging about usually in a scientific/medical capacity. But even without super powers of their own the human character is usually gifted with exceptional natural intelligence so they are not really representative of the average human on the street who is fearful/jealous/prejudiced against mutants. Your own description of such characters as being the 'current pro-mutant human of the decade' is itself an indication of how rare it is to find a human who doesn't hate/fear mutants in the X-mens world. And since the current pro-mutant human of the decade usually occupies a passive role as a scientist/medic they usually spend the majority of their time with the adult X-men who already understand that not all humans are bigots and dont really hang about with the impressionable students whose main experience of humanity is being persecuted for something beyond their control. You are right about the X-men encouraging the impressionable ones away from attitudes and beliefs that are negative towards humans and encouraging them to think differently though.
- This is also an interesting case of the mutant/homosexuality analogy breaking down. In recent years, as acceptance of LGBT people has gradually improved, the "gay ghettos" of decades past have gone into decline, and you see more and more LGBT people choosing to live in places based on more conventional factors (e.g. convenience to work, nice neighborhood, etc.). The end result has been the steady improvement of society's attitudes towards LGBT people because they are less of a mysterious counterculture and more just the people next door. However, mutants have tended towards the opposite trend, increasing their isolationist tendencies. Plus, even groups like the X-Men have taken up the mantra that mutants are a separate "species" from ordinary humans, and thus made outreach to even liberal-minded humans more difficult. That this comes with a certain racial loyalty only makes things worse. The X-Men have taken to defending, and even accepting as members, documented mass-murderers like Magneto under the premise of mutant solidarity. On what basis should society at-large forgive Magneto for his crimes just because Cyclops chooses to do so? Especially since the Heel–Face Revolving Door means that a former villain can become a welcome member of the X-Men one day, and become their sworn enemy again the next? That the X-Men have a history of declaring that the judgment of crimes by mutants is a matter for mutants to decide has negative implications in the concept of people being judged by a jury of their peers, since this implicitly makes the statement that humans are not the peers of mutants ("Homo Superior") and even if they have been harmed by a mutant it is not up to them to judge said mutant.
How was Xavier's dream ever going to have worked? (Part 1)
- How was Xavier's dream ever going to have worked?
- ...Do you really expect an answer for that? You might as well ask "How will world peace work?"
- I kinda of do because Xavier has been talking about peace between humans and mutants for forty years now.
- It's still kind of a loaded question. I don't think there's a "plan" for it, even in Xavier's head, because it's something with so many variables that have to be considered. Plus, those 40 years have consisted entirely of the "stop the lunatics on both sides from trying to wipe each other out," and if you can't get past that bit, the rest is going to be much more complicated.
- I don't think it's ever supposed to work. Just think about all the Alternate Universes where mutants are enslaved, exterminated or ruling over the humans with an iron fist. There's no AU's out there where humans and mutants are just getting alongnote . Think about that; with the unlimited possibilities in alternate universes, we don't have one single AU where humans and mutants get along. My thinking is that it goes back to the top point; as long as there's no realistic solution for keeping dangerous mutants from hurting innocent humans, Status Quo Is God will be in full effect. Of course, this doesn't apply to the movieverse which doesn't have to worry about chugging out additional films; X3 seems to suggest mutants have made great strides in human-mutant relations since they've got a big hairy beast working for The White House.
- I think there has been at least one or two au's that shows humans and mutants living together in peace more or less otherwise what's the point of the X-Men?
- Exiles presents a couple of Universes where regular humans and mutants get along.
- That's the bottom line, really: It's an ongoing comic book, the story of which depends on the conflict between humans and mutants. As long as the comic book is ongoing, there isn't a chance in hell that there's going to be peace between humans and mutants. It's only the movies and AU's that do it because they have a finite end. Humanity will never truly accept mutants because then you don't have a story to sell.
- That's why I don't really like the X-Men comics.
- The point of it is the same as any civil right campaign, to protest for human-mutant peace. The reason they exist in their world is to show mutants they can use their powers for peace, and show humans that mutants are to be respected as heroes and not monsters. While the comics may never truly get a total peace thing, its the same for real life. How is Dr. Martin Luther King Jr's dream of civil rights ever going to work if you have racism coming from both sides? How is any civil rights movement going to work? The thing is, both the MU verse and this verse will always have racists and bigots, but we have to at least try. Plus, those '40 years' are only 40 years to us, to them, its more like 6.
- That's what I dislike about the X-Men cause they've never shown in progress with mutants rights which one thread talked about and it's most likely 10-15 years they've been at it.
- And it took African American's nearly two centuries to make the progress they have now and its still not there. And a lot of the time it comes down to the writers rather than the actual comics. Some writers who focus more on the Civil Rights movement of Mutants tend to do give them some development, they have had openly mutant musicians, models, and celebrities. In five to fifteen years of the Civil Rights movement if a black man wanted to become a model he'd be laughed at or even lynched. It took them years before they recruited black army soldiers or police officers yet they have just that with Mutants. Also, Mutants have the disability of Magneto, one of the most dangerous mutants, actually being against civil rights and for superiority. As for that thread, you mean the problems with the X-Men YOU said you have with it? You got a few ideas for the series, go apply for Marvel and work yourself up to head writer of the X-Men, no one's stopping you. I'm not saying you try to write better, I'm saying if you think you're ideas are good go and try writing, who knows, you may be seen as the best idea man for a while.
- I agree with everything you've said but that wasn't my thread and has Magneto been that big of a threat to mutants? However I do wish they focused on the civil rights aspect even more in the comics especially because they have shown very little to no progress in that regard and the stuff that governments and people do to mutants and can get away with it is mindblowing. Because no matter how strained the metaphor gets the X-Men will always be discriminated against to the point that an elected official can openly proclaim he's going to "get rid of" a gazillion mutant children with nobody batting an eye. Imagine if a politician said "I want * insert ethnicity* to be destroyed" in real life that's what I don't like about it.
- "And it took African American's nearly two centuries to make the progress they have now and its still not there." Except African Americans weren't actively campaigning for their rights for the entirety of those almost-200 years. Once the Civil Rights movement started, it picked up speed fairly quickly (if not as quickly as its supporters would have liked) and started making real tangible progress. But what real tangible progress has the Mutant Rights movement made? None, so far as I can tell. If anything things have gone backward.
- Its gone backwards because African Americans didn't start blowing up bridges or hearding people into concentration camps and then suffer massive losses. Even there, not all mutants are campaigning for equal rights, which is why its so slow. And as said before, Many, many times, is that, in comic book time, their campaigns have only been going on for a few years, in which they've faced many things african americans didn't.
- Strictly speaking, in terms of human-mutant relations, Charles Xavier used to be a really big deal, testifying before Congress and doing his part to be the "voice" for mutant rights to the world. Earlier in the series when they started bringing this metaphor out for the first time, you could compare how mutants were doing to how worse off they'd be if "Days of Future Past" came to be or in the X-Men Cartoon series 2-part ep "One Man's Worth", they showed that without Charles Xavier, the status quo would be an all-out war between humans and mutants. In that respect, you could appreciate Xavier's relevance in the human-mutant struggle.
Compare how things are now; mutants have suffered a Humiliation Conga: herded into concentration camps (Weapon-X), reduced to 198 and counting down, had even the depowered mutants get assassinated by anti-mutant activists, had their worst enemies come back from the grave to try and eradicate mutants once and for all. For the first time ever, things are no worse off for present-day mutants than in any of the dystopian alternate futures that they seemed to be heading to.
- That sucks so does that means humans and mutants will finally go to war?
- Of course, the Humiliation Conga they're going through has ended, and The President has awarded Cyclops a medal or two for his leadership. Mutant's are on their way back up, and it looks like the hate they get is reducing, San Francisco, Canada, and Enland are all being depicted as having positive opinions on mutants (San Francisco because they're cool, Canada for the Super Human agents they can be used as, and England because they have such little super heroes they want what they can get). So like real Civil Rights movements, they go through hard times, but make their way up. Again, the only reason we don't see progress is because then they loose their main gimmick. Mutants and humans can only live as peacefully as human and other humans can, thats the only real problem, Humans Are the Real Monsters. We honestly can't live peacefully with ourselves, and mutants and humans are, currently in the comics, living the same way two groups of humans would, attempting to live peacefully but are moderately concerned while members of both sides want a war. Xavier's 'dream' is just as likely to come into place as Martin Luther King's or any civil rights leader. X-Men: The End if I remember correctly shows the natural progression of the canon universe, and that in a few years, we'll have a Mutant President, so they will at least progress somewhat.//
- So basically Magneto was right more or less because until now mutants were living in a world where they could get killed for just existing with almost next to no progress being made for mutant rights and the only reason why they're existing in somewhat peace because of M-Day which I really really really hated but none the less but basically Magneto was right and that mutants should've gone to war with the humans correct me if I'm wrong.
- Er, no. How did, how did you get that from what I said? All House of M did was nearly start a war between machinemen and mutants. Had they still had high numbers, Civil War, Secret Invasion, and Dark Reign, would still of happened, which would still lead to moving to San Francisco and fighting Bastion, and the American President would still of given Cyclops a Medal and give mutants a better rep. In a sense you could say that had it not been for House of M Cyclops wouldn't have formed X-Force and as such they would probably stand less of a chance, but at the same time, they would have had a larger cast to fight Bastion. In actuality, before House of M, they had made some progress to Mutants, they had their own subculture. Magneto was wrong, they didn't need to go to war, since they still haven't gone to war with humans and they're doing great. At no point would war be beneficial to either side, it never is.
How was Xavier's dream ever going to have worked? (Part 2)
- Somewhat I doubt that if M-day didn't happen that things would've happened the sameway entirely I think things would've gone a different course and who knows how the war would've ended.
- Actually yes, even if House of M Civil War would still of happened, and so would Secret Invasion and Dark Reign, those are the things that lead to their move to Utopia, which is what led to Bastion's final attack. The only logical things that would be different would be X-Force being non-existent (As it was the low number of mutants which made Cyclops form them).
- I agree that Secret Invasion might've still happened so would've Dark Reign but it would've happened in a very different way but with Civil War I believe it would've turned to a human-mutant war that would've nuke America. Also the reason why they went to San Fran and created Uptoia is because of M-Day case closed.
- No it wouldn't, it was still a war between Tony and Steve. There was mutants on both sides, all that would be different would be different is the amount involved. And no, they wouldn't of 'Nuked America', because the leader of the anti-reg side IS F**K'N CAPTAIN AMERICA! Why would he even willingly nuke the country on his chest? And yes, they would still of moved to Utopia, they moved because of Norman Osborn. Dark Reign would still of happened and as such Cyclops would of decided to form his own country to sustain the Mutant population away from it. All House of M did was decrease their numbers, the Mutant Messiah may not have happened and they wouldn't of had the X-Mansion destroyed, but that was only one reason they moved. They also moved because the Super Registration Act would of forced them to move following the Fifty State Initiative. Not much would be different other than the number of mutants. Not everything has to result in a human-mutant war. Wars don't break out so easily. Remember, Civil War was a war between super humans and other superhumans. Regular humans weren't involved unless they had a reason to be. Mutants, as said, were involved on both sides, and, if M-Day didn't happen, the only difference would be bigger numbers involved on either side, the outcome would still be pretty much the same, one final battle which ends with Steve surrendering and getting shot for not being a nazi. That would lead to the 50 State init. which would lead to the X-Men finding a new home in San Fran, and lead to Secret Invasion, which would lead to Dark Reign, which would lead to Utopia. The only real difference would be Cyclops wouldn't have to lead them like an army and instead like a group of heroes.
- The only reason the X-Men moved to Asteroid M was because of Proposition X and the mutant race low numbers which all happened because of m-day and the mutant messiah. Also when I said about America being nuked that was more of a metaphor of how destructive the war would've gotten than a literal example of nukes being used. Also I don't think it would've stayed a Steve and Tony war it would've quickly evolve into something much more dangerous and M-Day had a bigger impact than you would think. Also wars do happen that easily with Civil War being the perfect example you are right about it not being a human-mutant war. At first it would be like superhuman-mutant war then it would change into something else and the outcome would probably be very different.
- No, it would still of been a matter of Tony being a Nazi and Steve fighting for his ideals. Both Cyclops, and Xavier know that a war is the last thing Mutants need, and would of avoided it. Like I said, Mutants were involved on both sides of Civil War. And No, Proposition X was just one reason for them moving, Norman and Dark Reign was the real reason, Cyclops says so on the news when he actually announces their move. Dark Reign was the reason they moved, Case Closed. House of M was a big deal, but all it meant was they were weak and needed a Messiah, if not for House Of M and M-Day they would still have to deal with some of the problems they faced, but without the Mutant Messiah storyline and Bastion would have lost a lot more quickly. House Of M was a bad thing, it did nothing Beneficial for Mutants but allow for story lines to focus on. The only difference it would have to civil war would be the amount, it would never be Mutants versus non mutants, since half the mutants were For the Act and the others were against it. I don't know how to say it more clearer than that. M-Day did nothing to affect the Civil War but decrease the number of mutants involved. They moved to Utopia because Norman was in charge and was a dick, not because they needed to. While It left them weaker, all it did was motivate Cyclops to take a more determined stand against Anti-Mutant sentiment and form X-Force to fight Bastion. Had it not have happened, the following would: Mutants would live normally, Civil War would start, mutants would take both sides, Steve would surrender after fighting for a long time, get shot, world would be depressing, Mutants would move to San Fran after being invited to after the 50 State Initiative, Skrulls would invade, Mutants would fight them off using Biological Warfare, Osborn would publicly kill the queen and look redeemed and heroic, Dark Reign would happen, an act similar to Proposition X would start since it was connected to Norman and his dark X-Men, Cyclops would move to Utopia, Bastion would strike, and be defeated because of the larger number of mutants, Vampires would attack, Cyke would outsmart them, and then we get to where we are now, only with bigger numbers. Civil War, other than them being involved, had nothing to do with mutants, but super humans in general, and both sides were led by Steve Rogers and Tony Stark. MUTANTS WOULD NOT EFFECT IT IN A SIGNIFICANT WAY. THEY WOULD ONLY PROVIDE MORE NUMBERS. HOUSE OF M ONLY MADE THEM SMALLER, MOST STORYLINES WOULD BE THE SAME, MINUS X-FORCE AND MESSIAH SAGA. Is that clearer now? Or do you want me to repeat the exact same thing a few more times?
- Dude if M-Day never happened alot of things would've been very different ever heard of the butterfly effect or want for a nail so things would've been very different right from the get go and when were half of the mutants were for the registration act? So at the end of the day it appears that Magneto was right cause protecting the humans who for most part wanted them all dead or enslaved for a person's dream which may or may not come to pass is a bad idea. Cause if humans can't live together with one another in peace how can they with mutants. Also why is peace between them such a big deal if the mutants are going to replace them anyways?
- Ahuh, do you realize how much you sound like Magneto, thought with less grammar? Not all humans wanted them dead, the point of protecting them is to show that Mutants shouldn't be feared And as Evolution goes, they're not guaranteed to replace humans. Humans evolved from monkeys, did they get replaced? No, they're still around. The point of the X-Men was to avoid both sides from being dicks to the other, since Peace would be needed for the same reason peace is needed between any two races: Because wars are bad. No, alright, M-Day would only change the plot of the X-Books, not the entire MU. Yes, there would be differences, but Utopia, Curse of the Mutants, and others would still be the same, but with a larger number. Remember, not all of those mutants were members of either team, most mutants were just civilians with weak to almost nonexistent powers. Take them away and, all you have left is the X-Men and other teams. Yes, lots of students lost their powers too, but so what? Most of the student body was interchangeable anyway. Most of the bigger names were still the same. The biggest difference, as said, was X-Force's existence, but for the most part, the stories would be the same.
- When did I say that all humans wanted them dead and despite the X-Men protecting them they for most part still hate and fear them. Also a good amount of wars are a necessary evil they needs to be fought and in regards to the monkeys thing even though they are still are around humans are more or less rule over them after all it's a human's world. You never answered my question about what half of the mutants supports the act and I have to disagree with you on the M-Day if it didn't it would've affect more than just the X-titles and I don't think it would be the same but with larger numbers. Also what do you use to support the idea that most mutants were just civilians with weak to almost nonexistent powers. I do agree that a good amount or mutants have suckey but not to the degree you suggest and which teams are you talking about? Also the students would still be affected by the act regardless.
- Here: "Magneto was right cause protecting the humans who for most part wanted them all dead or enslaved..." You said exactly that. Yes, a good amount of wars is against to most of it black and white, but a war between humans and mutants isn't needed, as neither side is evil, you have evils on both side, but collectively they're not that bad. And while it is a human world, We didn't make them become extinct, and we didn't necessarily replace them as just out grow them, they still do as they do peacefully, its just we do our own things. The half the mutants support them? Well from the top of my head Bishop, and that was Pre-Character Derailment, and others but I forget their names, I don't remember the exact number of people involved in the war or on either side, but yes, other than the mutants uninvolved they were split, just like every other hero. It would only effect the X-Books, because if you look, only the X-Books dealt with it. Spider-Man didn't do much about M-Day, neither did the Fantastic Four, only the X-Men really focused on it. Use to support the idea? Well, Grant's run on the series showed District X, a place filled with mutants who live like everyone else. The fact every time they mention how many mutants exist, thats considerably more than the X-Men or Magneto have on their teams and don't appear to try and recruit them. Cyther was originally ignored by Xavier because his power was so harmless it didn't matter. And the fact that, also shown in Grant's run, is that mutants have their own subculture, their own bands, places to live, dress sense, etc. Those mutants only have physical mutations or useless powers, which is why they weren't recruited by either side. Plus, common Sense. If a mutant with the power of Choir can be recruited, you have to imagine how weak you must be not to be recruited to any team. Other teams? X-Factor, Generation X, Brotherhood, Acolytes, Hellions, Young X-Men, New X-Men, Astonishing X-Men, any other team composed of mutants, etc. What I'm saying about how much will be effected is how much was effected. Any storyline based around the Event, namely Messiah Complex/War, second coming, etc. The other storylines, like Curse of the Mutants, Utopia, Dark Reign, Civil War, etc, would still focus on what they were focusing on.
- I said most humans not all wanted to kill or enslave them and the war would be more light gray vs darker gray and when has Magneto ever wanted to genocide humanity Xorn doesn't count. As for the monkey example humans and monkeys don't exactly coexist in peace last time I checked and the only mutants that supported the act were Bishop, Deadpool, and the Lake Avengers all the others mutants hated the Act but they were busy with the whole sentinel thing so the mutants weren't really split on it. The X-Men really focused on M-Day but it affected the whole Marvel Universe as well X-Men only got most of the load because super heroes don't really help out mutants. Beside mutant town and a few cases here and there I would say that most mutants have non lame powers or at least half of them especially since there was 16 million mutants worldwide so not all of them would be on a team. Also I still say that if M-Day didn't happen things would've been different.
- Uh, 1, Most wars are light grey/dark grey. World War I, neither side, allies or Axis, were exactly all that great, and it only broke out because one guy, on the allies' side, assassinated the wrong guy. World War II, while the Nazis were a very dark shade of black, the American's and Soviets were both pretty bad and The British, while the lighrst, were still grey, one motivated by financial gain, one motivated by revenge, while the British were still an Empire and as such not that great either. Remember the Nukes? Mutants and humans would be the same, but as I said isn't at all needed as they're living in relative peace. As for monkeys, how are we not living in peace? Do monkeys ever attack us unprovoked? Do normal humans go out hunting primates? With the exception for Poachers and amoral suits who want to destroy jungles, we live pretty peacefully. Compare to humans and mutants, with the exception of groups like the Purifiers and Brotherhood, they live in peace, both doing their own things. And No, only some mutants expressed hate for it, Cyclops didn't want to get involved because, well, it was a humans' problem and they were, as you said, dealing with their own things. M-Day wasn't the only reason they didn't get involved, Genosha was only recently destroyed, the X-Men had unrelated problems as well, and Jean just died. Mutants were busy. If they hadn't been decimated, they, like everyone else, would have been split. Remember, not all mutants opposed the mutant registration act, some agreed to it and even enforced it (Freedom Force anyone?) You actually made no sense in the comment about 'The X-Men really focused on M-Day but it affected the whole marvel universe as well x-men only got most of the load because super heroes don't really help out mutants'. That is basically what I said, Only the X-Men focused on it because the others weren't involved, because, as you put it, super heroes don't help out mutants, and do you know why? Because IT DIDN'T FUCKING EFFECT THEM! As I have been telling you. Sorry for the F strike, but I've been repeating the same god damn things over and over and you still don't seem to get it. And Yes, The existence of Mutant town does suggest mutants with actually dangerous powers are limited. In the original stories, mutants usually had quite limited powers, which is why the metaphor for racism worked. If all these millions of people could all do dangerous things, then the metaphor breaks, its why its assumed that mutants with Omega level Powers are rare. The majority would have lame powers since the concept of mutants is random powers, and out of the list of possible super powers, actual useful ones, or at least ones that could actually be used offensively to the point of being a danger, are slim. I'm not saying all those mutants are weaker than Beak, but most likely, they wouldn't have dangerous powers, because then the X-Men would be spending all their time stopping the over 8 million dangerous mutants. Have they ever shown that most mutants are dangerous? No, in fact the majority of the X-Men's vast numbers are relatively weak by themselves (Namely, Nightcrawler and Shadowcat, two of the most well known characters, are actually mutants with Heart powers, its just they're awesome at using them in their own way). And, to finish it off: No, I'm not saying it wouldn't be different without M-Day, it would, but not to the level you suggest. The only things that would be different would be the things somehow connected to it. Civil War, Secret Invasion, Dark Reign, the biggest crossovers afterwords, were not directly connected to M-Day, and as such would still happen the way they did. After all, the 15 million mutants are world wide, and as such only the American ones would be even remotely affected by Civil War. Secret Invasion and Dark Reign had nothing to do with M-Day, and Utopia was because of Dark Reign. Even if the Mutant population was still in the billions, Norman Osborn was still planning to get rid of them during Dark Reign, and Cyclops would have moved to Utopia, and made the open invitation to all mutants. Now, please actually think about what I've just said, because I'm getting really tired of constantly going over the same stuff with you. I try to be nice, cynical, but a nice guy, however you're hard to talk to.
- Humans and monkeys don't peacefully coexist as EQUALS when did most humans wanted to live in peace with mutants and only some mutants said they hated or liked it and those were only the main characters that said something either way I'm pretty sure that most mutants weren't for the act. Also the only reason Cyclops was neutral was because he felt that the mutants had already been through too much during the Decimation to take a stand either way and survive. Also the Freedom Force was the Brotherhood just working for the government so not the best example and what I meant was that the other superheroes never helped out mutants before regardless of M-Day or no M- Day. Also there is a difference between limited and lame and of course Omega's are rare they're supposed to be rare and define dangerous powers do you mean alpha and omega levels or what? Also a large amount mutants whose powers are above lame in any shape can still do a fair amount of damage regardless and even though it was 16 million worldwide there was probably a large amount in America. Also Civil War, Secret Invasion, Dark Reign, World War Hulk were remotely connected to M-Day even in a small way and way would Norman want to get rid of the mutants he never pegged me as the anti-mutant kind and Utopia isn't the best example of Xavier's dream of peaceful co-existence as equals it's more of the morlocks way?
- No, but they live and let live, which is what's meant by coexisting peacefully. Even then, that's only if you believe mutants will replace humanity, which is repeatedly said as not the case. Only the extremists on either side think that, its specifically said by Xavier that mutants are just a new group of humanity trying to find their place in the world, namely, as heroes who should be treated equally. Freedom Force is a good example as they're mutants who supported registration, they're former villains, but as Freedom Force they were like the Pro side would be later. I know that's what you meant, but that's exactly the reason why they don't get involved is because regardless of when, mutants don't effect them, and after M-Day the only ones truly effected by it were mutants, some heroes who retained memories of it were a little messed up, but not nearly as badly as the mutants. Civil War and the resulting storylines had, and I will repeat this again and I hope you actually get this, NOTHING to do with M-Day and wouldn't of been effected, at least significantly to the point of influencing storylines. Without M-Day, CIVIL WAR AND FOLLOWING STORYLINES WOULD BE ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME! Because, while by your logic it would have changed to mutants vs humans, the storyline wasn't focused on the mutants, and the writers wouldn't feature them, since they wanted the Pro side to be correct, despite the Mutant equivalent being presented as wrong. At any rate, the only evidence you can actually say is that you personally are sure most were against it. That doesn't mean they were, just you think they were. Considering heroes like Iron Man and Spidey were for the act (At least originally) despite it being clearly wrong, its not a stretch to assume mutants, like other heroes, would have been split. And M-Day was not the ONLY reason they were neutral, that was ONE of the reasons, some mutants regarded it as a humans' problem, and not there's. Just because you think most mutants were against it, does not mean they would be, it was a split between every superhero. Even if by logic they should be against it, they would have been Derailed to be for it because that's what the writers wanted. Yes, by simple logic the majority of mutants wouldn't be significantly dangerous, whenever it showed mutants who aren't members of any team they're usually just blue haired or green skinned, mutants usually only have one ability or change, unless they're lucky, and as such are more likely harmless. Remember, most of the actual X-Men and their villains have simple powers. Wings, big feet, at the time weak telekinesis and eye beams, jump high, power over luck, speed, extra fat, and teleportation. Those were the powers of most of the mutants that were shown in the early comics. Look at the list of super powers on the wiki, pick one at random, now imagine only having that one power. What is the chance its something good? A weak power is more likely to develop than either a strong or even remotely useful power, and as such a mutant is more likely to have a weak power. Plus, even then, thats if they even GET a super power and not a physical change which is more likely to happen. Mutants are more likely to be weak. Also, another way to think about that, if only 16 million mutants existed before M-Day, that means less than a million of them had something good, since there's less than a thousand useful powers. Two mutants having the same power is rare, so that doesn't affect it. It doesn't take a genius to realize that simple probability means most mutants will be relatively normal with only a small difference, such as horns or wings or different hair colours. Astonishing X-Men had a page which showed a long list of mutants with different powers, find one mutant with a power you think would be useful as a super hero. That is the kind your average mutant would have. And even if most mutants could do serious damage if they wanted to, were any of these mutants involved in anything big before M-Day? No, so why would they get involved in anything afterwords. WWH wasn't connected to M-Day, it was just the reason Hulk didn't beat Xavier to a pulp, the only difference it would have had was Hulk would have had to smash a few heads and would have taken Xavier, it wouldn't of effected the storyline that much to change its ending, which is what I'm trying to say. M-Day was its own storyline, and most of the ones it effected, literally 90 percent of those effected, had never been featured beforehand in a comic as they were just civilian mutants, not heroes, and as such not effected by the storylines since they FOCUSED ON THE HEROES. Lastly, yes, Norman is a bad guy, of course he'd be anti mutant, it wouldn't be surprising if he called Luke Cage the N-word and made insulting remarks about Northstar's sexuality. Its a rule about Complete Monsters to be anti-everything. Norman is a Sociopath, as such he's egotistical, which means he sees everything about himself as better than everyone else, so those with different features, he would see as inferior. Thats why some serial killers without any real reason to kill other than a sociopathic want to kill will target people of a certain type, because they decided they dislike people of those kind. Lastly, No, Utopia isn't the best attempt at Xavier's dream, but its a start, if M-Day had never happened, it wouldn't of been a big deal, just another foreign base they'd stay in until they decide to move back to the mansion, but in the Post M-Day world it is in, its a big step as he's united every mutant in the world, until they decide to move back to the mansion. So, to conclude, Equality is the same as live and let live, which is what mutants need. Mutants are not necessarily going to replace humanity. Decimation was but one of the reasons for mutants to stay out of it, and the biggest reason was so people wouldn't notice the similarities between this and the Mutant Registration act. Had they been involved, nothing would be different because Joey Que wanted the Pro side to win and the focus was on Steve and Tony having a divorce. And if they did, characters would have been written to be split Freedom Force were former villains, and were still an example of not all mutants being against the acts. The point about super heroes not being involved in mutants problems was my point all along, just looking at it from the opposite side. As powers are randomly selected, most mutants would be relatively normal in comparison to the X-Men. If not, they were still never involved in anything beforehand and as such wouldn't be noteworthy in the storylines. M-Day may be at least somewhat connected to those storylines, but not enough to significantly change the plot or outcome. Norman is a villain and as such racist. Utopia is just another base for them to stay in until they go back to the mansion, but is a step from M-Day since they're now united, but wouldn't need to be united had it not happen in the first place. And Yes, you may not mean to be annoying, but the fact every time I explain a point you don't seem to get it or you disagree with it, and you can't stop asking questions, to the point its getting annoying to keep answering them. Yes, I get you don't mean to, but it would help if you used more grammar instead of long sentences. Now, can someone take over because I'm getting tired of constantly answering every question.
- The whole monkey thing is still not an example of PEACEFUL COEXISTENCE AS EQUALS live and let live is more of segregation or the Malcolm X or Morlocks way of thinking than Xavier/Martin Luther King dream. Cause even in the House of M the mutants let humans live and let live even though the humans were second class citizens but then again the monkeys do live in jungles. Also Magneto or his brotherhood have never advocated genociding the human race and Xavier and his X-Men were the ones who said that mutants will replace humans in a couple of generations if I'm not mistaken. Also Freedom Force were working for the government before Registration and they weren't with the government to advance peaceful coexistence or mutant rights they were just bad guys with government paychecks. Also I keep telling you that Civil War, Secret Invasion, World War Hulk, Dark Reign did have something to do with M-Day even if it was in a small way. I also think that the whole superheroes not really caring about mutants is more of an example of human-mutant segregation than human-mutant peaceful coexistence as equals. Also if M-Day didn't happen Civil War would've been very different and so would storylines following that. I said it would be mutant vs superhumans before it would evolved into something else and the only reason the storyline wasn't focused on mutants was because there wasn't that many left and how do you know the writers wouldn't have focused on them? Also only Mark Miller wanted the Pro side to look right the writers clearly had other ideas and why would mutants be split on the act I'm sure most of them would hate it. What other reasons the mutants would stay neutral cause why would they only regard it as a human problem and not there's and mutants aren't superheroes. Also can you give any reason why they would be for it and even if most mutants powers won't that dangerous a good amount of them can still do a good amount of damage and I've remembered a good amount of mutants that weren't on a team that still had a useful power. Also even if the mutants were split mutants fighting mutants will still cause a crap load of damage but most likely most of the mutants would hate the act and if the derailed them into likely I and many other fans would hate the writers of marvel even more so then we do now. I also would say that at least a couple thousand- 100 thousand would have something useful and the only reason mutants never got involved in something big was because something big never affected them. I think the Hulk would most likely would've killed most of the X-Men and their if Xavier voted yes if Xavier voted no hulk would've left them alone. Also the act doesn't affect just superheroes but everyone with powers depending on what day of the week it was. Also I didn't know that Norman did the things honestly I kinda of stop reading marvel since the skrulls and I have to agree with you on Norman. Also that's why I hate joey even more he illogical hates logic and good storytelling but that's my own personal axe to grind. I have to more or less agree with everything else you typed but what are the mutants going to do after they're numbers go up and it still looks like I'm right. Cause no matter what Xavier dream's would never really have worked in the less bit and people shouldn't be wasting their lives for something that is never going to work so at the end of the day no matter what the X-Men do mutants will still be treated like the lowest piece of crap. Sorry to cause you any headaches but how is my grammar that bad and be careful about what you say before you start a flame war and if m-day never happened why would the X-Men move to san fran?
- I'm not saying its peaceful coexistence as equals, but it is peaceful coexistence. The reason its not equal is because intellectually we're not equal with apes, we're smarter. No, Magneto hasn't, I never said that, but other villains who're mutants have. No, Xavier has never said Mutants WILL replace humans, that's what the extremists think, Xavier merely thinks its an example of evolution. Yes, Freedom Force did advocate the Mutant Registration Act, its why they signed, so that they would be seen as heroes. Yes, its not the best example of mutants agreeing, but other than them there was, likely, mutants voting for it as well. Remember, not all mutants are 'proud' of their gifts, some want to be just like everyone else, and as such, would have the same opinion of humans.
- I didn't read your whole reply but at this point let's more or less agree to disagree and your spelling wasn't that good no offense and it was Emma that talked about Genosha for the record.
- Humans didn't evolve from Monkeys, especially the not the modern monkeys of today. Saying we branched off from a common ancestor is about as close to accurate as that analogy could hope to be, or maybe that we used to be more monkey like. Either way, if the "X-gene" is hereditary and often makes living easier, then you'd better believe mutants could replace humans. The whole separate species idea is crap anyway. Homo Superior is a term Magneto coined that happened to catch on in universe because it sounded nice. Humans and mutants can produce fertile offspring and still regularly do.
Magneto, the Avengers, and FF
- How does Magneto view other superbeings? I assume he views non-powered heroes or heroes that are human, but use magic, like Dr. Strange and Iron Fist, as arrogant pretenders, but how does he feel about Captain America, or the The Inhumans, or Thor? Does he have any respect for their powers and see them as some kind of honorary mutants, or is he as hypocritical as most racists and only likes pure mutants. Has this ever been directly addressed?
How come Franklin Richards has never suffered because of being a mutant?
- Because he's the son of Susan Storm. Would you mess with the son of one of the most powerful superhumans? Not just Susan, the entire FF go to battle with GALACTUS and come out perfectly fine. Its like asking why don't they try to take away Cyclops' visor or kill Aunt May, the one who does it is in for a serious world of hurt if they did.
- Because in the comics mutants are feared and hated upon because of how powerful they are and here we have Franklin here he is one of the most powerful mutants in existence he's the odd mutant out I find that weird.
- Because, as far as most know, he isn't a mutant, he's the son of two non mutant superheroes who also inherited powers. And, as I said, who's to say they don't fear him? Like I said, he's the son of two people who regularly punch out Cthulhus like they're common thugs. Its nothing to do with him personally, but they leave him alone because his parents are possibly the most powerful non-mutant super-couple in the Marvel Universe.
- He is a mutant an omega level one at that and I find it weird that they never shown any fantastic racism ever directed at him in shape or form.
- Are you reading what I'm saying? They don't do it because his parents are part of one of the most dangerous super hero groups. He doesn't get Fantastic Racism because you don't try to bully the child of a Badass like Susan, a genius like Reed, or the nephew of a Hot Head like Johnny or a big guy like Ben. Would you mess with someone like that? He doesn't get picked on because of who his family is.
- I wasn't saying how come the Friends of Humanity haven't ever tried to kidnap or kill him but like how come none of the humans ever bash him in the press or when he's out in public how come humans never said bad things about or treat him differently for being a mutie. For example how come they've never shown Franklin getting service refused to him when he's in public for being a mutant. Or shown how Franklin relates and interacts with the mutant community and mutant plight. Also I'm still a little surprised that no anti-mutant hate group has still tried anything against him cause people have done stupider things in the Marvel Universe. Also it doesn't really matter who your family is fantastic racism should still affect you in someway after all mutants live in a world where they have next to no rights what so ever. They live in a world where they were enslaved for many years in an African island and when the humans found out there seemed to be no major reaction from them they live in a world where an elected official can openly proclaim he's going to "get rid of" a gazillion mutant children with nobody batting an eye.
- And I know that, that's what I've been saying. No one, in the Marvel Universe, would want to even think of treating someone like Franklin differently if his non-mutant parents can kick the crap out of Galactus. I cannot say it any more clearer, his parents are powerful, his uncles are powerful, all are non-mutants and as far as the public knows, he's a non-mutant superhuman who is incredibly powerful himself. Family does matter, if said family have saved the universe many times, and if your dad can make a way to heaven and even Demands God bring back his friend and succeeds. Also, one other point, there's also a difference in public acceptance. If a violent mutant hater saw Squid Boy on the street, he wouldn't think twice before attacking him. But if he saw Cyclops or Beast, the former the known leader of every single mutant in the world and the latter a mutant icon with literal celebrity status, he wouldn't consider attacking them, unless he's stupid beyond Marvel Universe stupid. Same in real life, the Ku Klux Klan would never think of attacking Will Smith or Samuel L. Jackson as they're both celebrities and actually quite badass celebrities. Its a matter of knowing who he is, not knowing if he's actually a mutant or not, and knowing he's both famous and powerful by himself.
- So most of the world doesn't know that Franklin is a mutant I wonder if his parents keep that knowledge secret to protect him?
- That's the only answer you took? So it not being public knowledge that he's a mutant is believable, but not wanting to mess with the child of a man who can talk to god and a woman whose more powerful than the Hulk and is a known Mama Bear you can't wrap your head around.
- It people don't know he is a mutant people would have no problem with him and some supervillains will still try to attack him after all idiots exist in great numbers in the Marvel Universe.
- Villains have attacked Franklin, but his mother is a Mama Bear who would kill them.
- True but if the public knew he was a mutant they might not attack but they would slander and do other non physical things to hurt him.
- Why? While he's a mutant he's also known as the son of the Fantastic Four, and as such is a celebrity. Beast doesn't get slander on the streets due to being a celebrity as well as a super hero. Depending on the Writer sometimes the X-Men aren't treated nearly as badly as street mutants.
- I thought Beast has been treated badly as well other celebrity mutants and they could slander him in the media and Internet too.
- Why? He may be a mutant but he's also the son of two popular non-mutant heroes with a great PR campaign. If they did, they would get flamed. Its possible that some do flame him, similarly to how Franky Boyle Made fun of Katie Price's disabled son. But it would be no more than jokes at his expense.
- Oh okay thanks for explaining.
- Also, he's never been shown hanging around with the X-Men or other dangerous mutants so the public probably figures if his powers were dangerous enough to fear, they'd know about it. Plus he has a genius-level daddy so if his powers ever got out of whack, he could fix them. Anti-mutant prejudice isn't totally universal; some mutants are well-known celebrities. The media focuses mostly on the X-Men and their rogue's gallery so if Franklin doesn't appear, no one bothers to ask about him.
- I'm still surprised no anti-mutant hate groups have tried anything to him yet and does the public know he is a mutant?
- Does anyone outside of the superhuman community know Franklin has powers. I don't think he has been outed as a superhuman let alone mutant.
- How come no Pro-Mutant people have "outed" him as a mutant? It was one of the basics of the gay-rights campaigns of the eighties and nineties, find someone with gold-plated PR Value and "out" them as gay. Sure it sucked for the individual, but what it did for the cause was incredible, and The FF have the best PR and public perception in the Marvel-verse, having their son be publicly known as a mutant and them standing by him would be publicity and progress you just couldn't buy. Yeah, it would piss off Reed and Sue, but what have they done for the cause recently? The X-Men and pro-mutant factions have conceded the entire PR and press battlefield to their enemies and are letting dictate terminology and image, no wonder mutants are getting shafted. Get a PR firm guys, jeez does Hill & Knowlton, Max Clifford, or Saatchi and Saatchi not exist in the Marvel-verse?
- For that matter, aside from possibly Spider-Man (my memory is fuzzy on this), have any non-mutant heroes been falsely outed as mutants? One would think it would be a common slur, to the point that you'd expect the media to openly start calling all supervillains "mutants" unless it was proved otherwise.
- The number of people who aren't close friends of the FF who even stop to consider that Franklin has powers at all is pretty insignificant, and he's the child of two of the most popular people in the MU. May as well ask why people aren't mean to Luke and Jessica's baby while you're at it; for all the average MU resident knows, Franklin's just a kid.
- He was outed as a mutant. In 1987, Marvel ran a fake ad campaign to promote its Fall Of The Mutants storyline. The ad read, "It's 1987. Do you know what your children are?" Franklin's picture is the fourth one with the word "MUTIE" written over his face.
What was the point of Operation Zero Tolerance and how was it legal?
- To eradicate mutants when they were legally deemed a threat, and Anti-Mutants sentiment lead to it. You're the one with so much knowledge about mutant-human prejudice, how come you don't know?
- Because most info that I read about it seemed to be very contradictory about what the operation does just like the SHRA in Civil War. So could the Operation go around killing or capturing any kind of mutants or just certain ones if it's the first how in GOD'S name is that legal.
- Again, Marvel Universe, how is forcing people with super powers, no matter how powerful or even useful they are, to register to the government because of a law that hasn't even been passed yet.
- Also whatever happened to the mutant registration act?
- Still in place, but they ignore it because its not really enforced.
- Oh okay, cause I always wondered what happened to it.
Why did Magneto try to take over the missile base and the country and many other things during the Silver Age?
- Because, that's just what villains did during the Silver Age, they all wanted power, this was before they fleshed out who Magneto is. Stan Lee was a great writer, but X-Men wasn't his title, it was Spider-Man and the Fantastic Four.
- Yeah your right I just find it a little bit jarring reading old Magneto stories when I'm thinking about how he has evolve no pun intended I just wish they would do some kind retcon regarding his earlier appearances.
- Why? They don't need to, it won't effect current stories so their isn't really reason to.
- I'm talking about whenever they do another prequel/flashback series they should just do that whenever they get around to it.
- The only Prequel Flashback series I know about is First Class, and that didn't focus too much on him. As said, their isn't a reason to. I think Claremont might of had an explanation when he was writing, so look it up.
- Well I did hear they were going to do a sequel to Magneto Testament and they could do it then.
- But why? It doesn't really need explaining.
- I still find it a little bit weird and contradictory to have current stories that have magneto as a fighter of mutant rights and older stories of Magneto as a crazed supervillain I definitely find it as an out of character moment.
- Dude, Characterization Marches On. Apocalypse was once a crime lord and Norman once loved his son. You don't need any in-universe explanation, they have one out of universe: Its a retcon.
- X-Men: Mythos one-shot actually explained that Magneto attacked that base because it was used for anti-mutant purposes or something. The rest though...
Has anyone ever explained how Magneto failed to recognize Wanda and Pietro as his kids back when?
- I know the meta-explanation is "It didn't occur to the writers yet" but canon-wise it seems a little odd, especially given how authors or artists like playing Generation Xerox with Erik/Magda and Pietro/Wanda, but physically-speaking. The art of young, post-Holocaust Erik and Magda in Testament bears a very strong resemblance to Pietro and Wanda; how did Magneto happen upon the twins and not go "Hey, these gypsy kids with mutant powers remind me of my gypsy wife who disappeared into this area of the world while pregnant, who looked a lot like the girl, and also her brother looks a lot like me in my younger years! And they're mutants, like my hypothetical kids might have been, because I am also a mutant!"
- Because, they weren't originally his children, that was a Retcon. But canon-wise, he didn't know Magda was pregnant with his children and had no way to find out. When he came across them, he may have thought they looked like him and Magda, but they also had different last names to both him and Magda. Magneto didn't really have reason to think they were his beyond "They look like me and Magda, huh, interesting."
- And now they aren't his kids anymore anyway, making it perfectly obvious that he wouldn't have recognized them back in the day.
How come other superheroes never helped out with mutant rights?
- Answered already with that message I sent you. They're all busy.
When and how were mutants existence revealed to the public?
- Does that even matter? It varies from universe to universe. In AoA it was Xavier's death. In films it was them stopping the Cuban Missile Crisis. In Evolution Magneto released the Sentinel prototype, forcing the X-Men to reveal themselves to stop it. In the main Marvel universe, I'm not too sure.
- I was mainly curious and I was talking about the main marvel universe because for long periods of time people in the main Marvel Universe didn't know that mutants existed then all a sudden they do and we all know what happen when that cat got out of the bag.
- I'm not sure if the Cuban Missile Crisis did it in the movie 'verse: the U.S. and Soviet militaries at least know for sure, but I have a feeling they may be holding the public unveiling back for the sequel. My favorite version, though, was the X-Men: Evolution season 2 finale, with the X-Men forced into fighting a Sentinel in downtown New York while news helicopters gather and media pundits frantically debate what's going on. The newscasts and shots of people glued to their TV's felt very true to life.
- In the 616 comics, it was probably during one of Namor the submariner's rampages. For some reason, people really, irrationally, hating mutants didn't become a plot point until twenty real life years later and they've never once suggested Namor might be the reason for it.
- Did anybody even knew that Namor was a mutant during the forties?
- I believe later stories have mentioned, particularly those dealing with the time-travel/altered timeline stories for things like AoA that the public battle with Magneto and his Brotherhood in X-men #1 that brought world-wide attention to the existence of mutants. Failure of that event to happen generally (but not always) tends to make things worse for mutants later on, such as the timeline where Xavier's son succeeded in killing Magneto by going to an earlier point in time.
- Yellow Claw #2 (1956) , which was published before Uncanny X-men #1 (1963) , featured mutants. so in the 616 verse, their existence was known since the mid-1950's.
What are the mutants power rankings?
- I don't think they ever actually explained the tier system in full. I guess you just have to make your own up.
- System's been explained numerous times. If I remember correctly, there are Double Epsilon Mutations (Latent or physical mutations such as scales, excessive fur, etc), Alpha Mutations (Capable of physical damage, harming others), and Omega Mutations (Capable of world destruction; possibly limitless powers). I think there's one more between Alpha and Double Epsilon that I'm forgetting, though.
- I think there are two that you forgot.
How did the public know the X-Men were called the X-Men before Xavier outed himself as a mutant?
- Er, is there a possible answer for that? Well, I guess they overheard them call themselves the X-Men and it caught on.
- I bit far-fetched but I'll go with it and why did Xavier call them the X-Men isn't that a bit prideful and weren't the X-Men a vigilante group?
- No, he didn't name them the X-Men because of him, he named them that for, originally, because they were Xtraodinary. Later, it was retconned that all mutants have a mysterious X-Gene, which unlocks super powers. Technically, no, I'm actually pointing this out in a Spider-Man fanfic I'm writing, but a Vigilante is someone who deals out justice, as in Execute criminals. The X-Men don't do that unless they have to, such as when X-Force was formed, or when killing someone would avoid whatever bad future was going on. The X-Men mostly just punch faces and fire Optic beams to stop whatever mad plot the villains are planning. At most, that could be citizen's arrest, which is completely legal. If I dressed up as a wolf with spandex I could go out and punch a few mobsters in the face, tie them up, call the cops, and leave, it would be completely legal. Stupid and likely suicidal, but legal.
- Um...no. "Vigilante" is defined as "a member of a self-appointed group of citizens who undertake law enforcement in their community without legal authority, typically because the legal agencies are thought to be inadequate." That's what the X-Men and all other non-government-sanctioned superheroes are.
- Technically, yes, but that's general vigilantism. Its not like all vigilantes operate the same way and different forms vary in how they're treated. The kind of Vigilante that the general population treat them as is a Vigilante killer, who kill criminals. The type that non-government-sanctioned superheroes are, is actually not illegal. As I said, if someone performed a citizen's arrest, they don't get arrested themselves for Vigilantism. When a super hero fights crime, they thwart their plans and restrain them until the police show up, which, is a fantastical form of citizen's arrest. If they all did what The Punisher did, then yes, they would be committing crime and be an illegal vigilante, but most heroes just knock out the muggers or leave them tied up.
- So why did Xavier create a vigilante group then?
- As said, the X-Men aren't actually a vigilante group, they, at most, fight the crazies from both sides and defend the innocents. They don't usually fight street crime like the others. At most, they could be seen as a slightly militant civil rights movement who try to keep peace between the two sides. As for the reason on why he formed a slightly militant civil rights movement who try to keep peace between the two sides, is because, well, they need peace between both sides before anything can be done. Imagine in a school, there's these two people who always get into fights, and then there's this one kid who, when they fight, will pull one off of the other. Now apply that to the world. The second reason was, well, to give mutants a purpose in society. While the weaker ones, like Doug Ramsey or one of the other characters who seem like a joke, they could get a normal job in society, that wouldn't be too hard. Doug for example could get work in computers. But ones like Iceman, Cyclops, the really destructive ones, they need something to do that will prove they don't need to be feared. And what better use of destructive ice beams than blasting killer robots?
- This all does raise some interesting points about the line between citizen's arrest, which is recognized in one form or another in most western countries, and vigilantism. In the U.S., at least, the person has to have witnessed the commission of a felony and use minimal force to detain the suspect until the police arrive, while a vigilante bypasses the police and takes the law into his own hands. The X-Men could argue that they're within their legal rights because they're using the "minimal force" necessary to detain suspects who can otherwise steamroll conventional police and military forces. Depending on the storyline and characters, though, they do cross back and forth across that line (Wolverine pretty much lives in "vigilante" country, Xavier and Emma have crossed it by meting out psychic damage as punishment, and so on). The Marvel superhero who could most fairly claim that his actions are just citizen's arrests is probably Spider-Man.
- That's one of the reason's I don't tend to see the Super heroes as Vigilantes but rather just citizens doing what they can. How I see it, the only reason Spidey gets all this bad press is because others are likely to make fake Spidey costumes and commit crimes dressed like that (I mean, how many times has someone stole his identity and gone on crime sprees).
- As for the X in "X-Men", X is often used to signify something new and unknown, like X-rays, an X factor and Planet X (both of which also got used by Marvel for X-titles - they really didn't let a single X pun get past them!), or to symbolize disenfranchisement, like Malcolm X. That was a widespread enough trend in The '60s that people reading the first few issues could make the connection that the name "X-Men" suggests they're a mysterious group that's outside the system.
- Additionally, Stan Lee's original name for the team was simply "The Mutants". He did try to show everyone exactly what they were about.
Why is Franklin Richards an omega level mutant?
- Because he was born with omega level mutant powers, maybe? What's the question here?
- Let me rephrase the question would Franklin be an omega level mutant or a mutant at all if his parents didn't get superpowers?
- Probably not. You sure do ask a lot of questions. How I see it, the Fantastic Four's cosmic radiation caused them to develop a mutant X-Gene. Which explains how they all follow the same rules as mutants (All have one single power each, two if lucky, able to use it however they need, but can't truly turn it off, Genetic cause). Franklin likely inherited the same mutant gene from his parents, and by chance its an omega level power (Likely gets it from his mother, who is now established as one of the most powerful super beings in the world, as another troper mentioned above, and is likely, going by the logic that they got X-Gene's from the cosmic rays, an Omega level 'mutate' herself).
- Though the full story's probably pretty convoluted at this point (Franklin has to be one of the most continually retconned characters out there, at least when it comes to his powers), The Other Wiki says that he is indeed a mutant in the X-gene sense, but his parents' powers caused his mutant abilities to start manifesting earlier than puberty. The implication seems to be that Franklin being a mutant and Reed and Sue having superpowers is just a coincidence, though there might be no in-universe way to really be sure (the above idea that the cosmic radiation unlocked the X-gene in his parents does make sense - it's a theory I've had for a lot of the Marvel radiation-based metahumans).
- Because his parents both had dormant/latent/recessive x-genes. Most supers in the Marvel Universe actually have the x-gene, which is a result of Celestials tampering with the genetic code of early humans. Some times it activates on its own, which is where mutants come from. Sometimes it requires a trigger. This is why cosmic rays didn't give the Fantastic Four horrible, horrible cancer instead of super powers; they had the gene. It's also why Bruce Banner became the Hulk instead of dying from a gamma bomb, and why Peter Parker didn't just get a bad case of radiation poisoning. It's also established, largely through Franklin but also through some of Peter's hypothetical children in what if stories, that supers have considerably increased odds of producing mutant children compared to baseline humans.
- One of the common explanations for mutant births in the Silver Age was that one or more of the mutant's parents had been exposed to radiation, which mutated their genes. For example, Charles Xavier's father worked at some kind of nuclear facility. The Fantastic Four were exposed to cosmic rays as part of their origin story. Presumably, this caused a small-scale genetic mutation in Mr. Fantastic or the Invisible Woman, which either resulted in their son being born with an active x-gene, unlike other heroes who require a trigger.
- Based on the House of M reality warp Franklin was born before his parents had the accident yet he was still a mutant (one of Emma Frost's students). Maybe the cosmic radiation gave him a secondary mutation that increased his innate abilities. In other words, he was already a mutant (maybe Alpha or Beta level) with normal human parents but his "mutate" parents made him Omega level.
- Either that or he retained his powers as a residual effect from the previous reality.
Would the X-Men still exist if a war between humans and mutants break out?
- Yes. That's a given. Maybe their numbers would be decimated but that's it.
- So even if humans or mutants won the war the X-Men would still exist?
- They kept fighting in Ageof Apocalypse and Daysof Future Past, so yes. It's not like a referee blows a whistle and the game's over the moment a war starts or one side defeats the other: as long as they're still alive they can keep fighting to make the world better. They'd just do it as fugitives.
- When last I checked in neither of those timelines was the war ever officially over.
- Apocalypse ruled North America. The Sentinels ruled North America. By what other definition do you consider a war to be "officially over"? What, do you think if it'd been "the world" instead "the U.S.", that would somehow convince the X-Men (who are based in the U.S. as it is) to lay down their arms? You seem to have a very weird idea about how time and history work: it's like you imagine there's some "game over" screen when a war's won or lost, and that's it, nobody gets another turn. People can keep fighting even when the war's been lost, which is how most of them got killed in DoFP and why they were wanted criminals in AoA. So yes, barring their actual deaths, most of the X-Men would keep fighting. They would not just say "oh, we failed, that's it, let's all go home" like you seem to think.
- My definition of the mutant human war being over is when mutants or humans not robots rule the world and I think after the war has ended I see kinda of hard for the X-Men to advocate for peaceful coexist between mutants and humans. Also how do I have a weird idea of how time and history work and even people can keep fighting when a war is over it's usually over that why there has never been a second American civil war. I also find it hard to believe there would be another human-mutant war cause that war is practically WW 3 so once WW 3 happens you would hope it would be a good while before WW 4 happens. In the DOFP they were trying to send a x-man or woman back in time to prevent it from happening and in that timeline human weren't control the sentinels were and was there even a war? I just thought the humans unleashed the sentinels on the mutants and the sentinels took over America. As for the AOA Apocalypse only ruled America and his rule sucked for both humans and mutants cause of the whole survival of the fittest thing and I don't think there was a human-mutant war or if it was it was far from over until Blue Lips bites the dust as well in that timeline. The best example of mutants ruling the world after winning the mutant-human war would be the House of M by in either case regardless if humans or mutants won the war would the x-men still be fighting for peaceful coexistence?
- Did toppling Saddam Hussein's government end the fighting in Iraq? Did overthrowing the Taliban government bring peace to Afghanistan? How about Israel and the Palestinians, did Israel winning the 6-Day War in 1967 put an end to their fighting over the West Bank? If you answer with "well those wars are still going on," then you're speaking in tautologies - if your definition of a war is that it only ends when all the fighting stops, then of course the X-Men would "stop fighting" when "the war ends," because by that definition, the war would only end once they're dead. Magneto and the X-Men fought to protect normal humans in the Ageof Apocalypse. The X-Men mostly died fighting in Days of Future Past, and the handful who were still left alive kept fighting on their own. As for House of M, Wanda apparently couldn't make it work without having Xavier die before he could form the X-Men, so there you go. This isn't even a hypothetical question - it's been straight-up answered by the story.
- Well thanks for your answer and so basically no matter which side won the war the x-men would still fight for peaceful coexistence how noble and how stupid.
- No, did you read their comments? No one really wins a war, they just wait for everyone to either die, or surrender. In a war between humans and mutants, no one would win, because there's too many civilians on both sides. Compare this to the Autobot-Decepticon war. Both sides are equally powerful, and throughout the universes, both sides have been decimated to small resistance movements only to come back and do a lot of damage. When Optimus dies, the Autobots didn't surrender all at once, they kept fighting until a new prime was elected, and then wait until Optimus comes back. When Megatron got executed in the films, the Decepticons kept fighting until the Fallen's plan could be executed. In most versions, they only end when everyone on one side is completely killed or defects. War' do not, repeat, DO NOT just end because one side achieves its goal. As for the American Civil War never happening again, you realize that when the confederates were 'defeated', they branched out into groups to try and eradicate the blacks, in groups known as the Ku Klux Klan? When Germany was first defeated, they elected Adolf as their new leader and came back again, and could have killed every non Aryan. When The Nazis were 'defeated', they branched out into white supremacist groups like the Neo Nazis. When a side 'loses', they just keep fighting until they 'win' again. The only war that was truly won, was the cold war, and that was because the Soviet Union collapsed, in other words, all died. Even there, America wasn't completely out of the clear, as most of the world then and to this day still do dislike them. The only way a mutant/whoever war would end if it started would be either peace negotiations (Such as how Matrix's war ended), death to the whole of one side (Such as how the Autobot/Decepticon war usually ends), or one side surrenders/backs down after the other uses enough intimidation to scare them down (The war that ended after a few minutes, the Indian Wars, and how Cyclops and the X-Men defeated the Vampires during Curse of the Mutants by revealing he's developed a way to instantly kill Dracula should he attack them). And no, it isn't stupid to keep fighting for peace, Its the same as any resistance movement. I have to say, I may be cynical, but you seem to be so black and white in your vision of wars, it comes off as pessimistic to the point of depressing.
- To the OP: are you referring to a human-mutant war in the present day or if humans and mutants fought a war before the X-Men were formed?
- The Nazi's or the KKK were never big enough to start another so yes there would be small resistance groups but nothing that would be serious of a threat to the winning side. Also the reason I find them still fighting for peace after the war is over a little foolish is because if the humans win. The humans will basically try to wipe out most of the mutants and enslave the rest so at that point the x-men should go all brotherhood of mutants on the humans. If the mutants win the x-men and mutants all over the world will have full mutant rights and live in a mutant paradise. So beside trying to introduce laws to help humans why would it be a good idea for the X-Men to fight against the mutant regime unless it's Apocalypse who is calling the shots?
- I was talking about a war in the present day something like that would be a great storyline for X-Men.
- No, a war wouldn't be good, no matter how you look at it. The Nazis and KKK not being big enough? Do you know how big they were? Do you have any idea how many White power groups exist? No, you don't, otherwise you'd know that, had they wanted to, they could start a war. But, as stupid as they are, they know a war is a bad idea. As for fighting for peace being foolish, I'm sorry, but that was the most dick-headish thing I've ever read. Fighting for peace is NEVER a foolish thing to do. Fighting for peace is the only non-foolish thing to fight for. Its not a matter of humans vs mutants, it would be a matter of bad humans vs bad mutants vs good humans and good mutants. Humanity doesn't all want to kill the mutants, and not all mutants want to fight. Its not so black and white. The reason it would be wrong to just sit back and let a mutant regime fight is because the X-Men are the ones who fight for rights, Magneto fights for supremacy. That isn't what they want. How do you not get this? Secondly, if a war did break out in the present, it would ruin the entire franchise. A war can only be used in a future and AU setting, if it happened in the main universe, we'd have something like Civil War: A terribly written story that ruined the comics for a lot of people. A small scale war, such as a single nation enslaving mutants and others fighting for liberation, that could work, but a world scale war between the two races would be a terrible idea.
What is a mutant, exactly?
- What makes a mutant a "mutant"? While it would make sense if all "mutants" were freaky looking like Beast and Mystique or dangerous like Cyclops and the Scarlet Witch, but some "mutants" are kinda vague, like, for instance, Cypher, who can translate languages. If an omniglot is a mutant, why not people with heterochromia? Or red-heads? Where does the line stop?
- Cerebro can tell the difference between humans and mutants.
- A mutant, as in Homo Sapien Superior, is a person born with a mutated 'X-Gene' which causes unique developments. How I chose to think of it, as like a key to their genes. Say, someone is born with a gene that allows them to grow a tail, but, its inactive/'turned off', and unlike most genes, it doesn't become active at a certain age. This 'X-Gene' makes a hormone that activates this gene, causing them to develop powers. Similarly, people could be born with an X-Gene, but lack any special genes in need of activating. So, an X-Gene holder and a 'power gene' holder will have to share their CD collections, and create a baby with both, causing them to be a mutant with powers. Similarly, if someone is born with an X-Gene but no powers, if they come across a genetic mishap, such as say, a bite from a spider or being near a Gamma radiation wave, then they'll develop a 'power gene'. The X-Gene may also provide other benefits. As described once in the comics, all mutants are immune to HIV/AIDS, but its also possible they're immune to the effects of radiation (As First Class claimed, thought note that despite being in a nuclear reactor for a great amount of time, Erik has no negative side effects). Its also possible that the same gene comes in small variations, such as one that lacks the ability to control the amount of this power unlocking hormone, causing Power Incontinence. Bare in mind, that's my personal take on it, there's nothing in Cannon to say this, but its how I like to explain it. Take it how you will.
- Speaking of the name "Homo Superior" what PR Genius came up with that name? If I were in the pro-mutant camp that'd be the first piece of terminology I'd be working on changing. Seriously, a name more likely to cause fractures between mutants and Homo-Sap would be hard to imagine. The Pro-Mutant factions have sucky PR guys working for them.
- The guy who coined the term was Magneto. Why PR hasn't come up with an alternative is the question.
- Funny, currently, or last I checked, they HAVE hired a PR specialist. However, Homo Superiour was coined by Magneto, and some writers tend to use it as the official term, leading to Xavier saying it despite previously disdaining it.
- I don't understand the whole mutant/human mutate distinction. Okay, I know mutants are born with their powers or they come out during puberty and human mutates received powers from an outside source but why are the offspring of both of these groups considered "mutants"?
- They aren't. If you mean Franklin Richards, he is a mutant; someone like May Parker (Spider-Girl) is not a mutant. The only thing that matters is whether or not you carry an X-Gene and if it has mutated you — if something else did, then you are not a mutant. And its entirely possible for two mutants to have a non-mutant baby (eg. Graydon Creed, son of Mystique and Sabretooth); if that baby had superpowers at birth, he would still not be a mutant as his powers did not come from his non-existent X-Gene.
One Man's Worth
- Why did the timeline become so crappy after Fitz killed Xavier?
- Same reason other comics have messed up timelines: Different writers combined with Comic book time causes problems, and as such cause the continuity to become messed up. As a friend explained, its why they stick to manga and series with only one writer, such as Bleach and Ultimate Spider-Man, since it leads to less problems.
- Presumably, without a team of X-Men to stop them, all the bad mutants like Sabretooth and Avalanche ruined things for mutants everywhere. They even showed The Avengers fighting against mutants, so the humans still consider superhumans to be alright if they're not mutants. Also, Xavier has testified before Congress and presumably done other behind-the-scenes stuff to fight for mutant rights.
The Mutant Menance International
- How do other nations treat mutants?
- Well, differently. In Afghanistan, I believe they were treated quite bad. England used them as super heroes and agents, since they don't get a lot of superheroes so they rely on mutants. Canada uses them as agents, and has them register with the government, thought without the supervillain mercenaries hunting them or the interdimensional prisons, just give them the option to. Mutants being hated and feared is mostly limited to America, but since the stories are almost all set in America, people usually assume its the same everywhere.
- The Canadian government largely used mutants to make weapons and used Alpha and Omega Flight for the pretense of good intentions.
- So have they ever shown how all the different continents like Africa, Australia, and etc treated their mutants?
- Storm was worshiped as a Goddess in her native tribe, it'd be fair to assume others were/are as well.
- Not that I know of.
- Russia developed Sentinels and had a super-soldier program similar to Weapon-X that made Omega Red.
- Genosha, the fake African country, went the South African route and created an Apartheid-like system of full mutant enslavement.
- Well Genosha did become a mutant paradise for a little while but how do other African, Asian, and European countries treat their mutants?
- Look, your questions are getting too general. This is for fridge logic, not your own curiosities.
- How can Bishop's past or future be connected to M-Day?
- Because it was meant to happen, or alternatively, Hope was always going to be a mutant messiah, whether or not M-Day would happen. Its possible she was always meant to be born, and the future was dependant on her life (IE, if she saved all mutants, Cable's timeline would come to pass, if she did whatever bad possibility, Bishop's would happen).
first superhero team
- Was the X-Men the first superhero team to appear in the public if not who was?
- No, a simple Google search could tell you that. In Marvel, the first team was the Invaders, and after them the Fantastic Four.
- Sort of. The Invaders were actually created in the 70's as a Retcon WWII team. Captain America, Namor, and other Golden Age Marvel (Timely) heroes was called All-Winners Squad. Also, DC had a handful of teams before X-Men came around and comic companies at the time also had theirs, even if those companies are no longer around. At any rate, the X-Men was not the first superhero team by a longshot.
- Apocalypse is easily one of the most powerful mutants in the world. In the Age of Apocalypse future where Xavier died before he could form the X-Men, Apoc took over most of the world. He could very easily be a Hero Killer, so why is he so obsessed with working through his horsemen or the Clan Akkaba, i.e. people far less powerful than he and prone to defeat. With his powers, he could march onto the X-Mansion and Curb-Stomp Battle the X-Men on their very best day. Plus he has shapeshifting powers, meaning he could sneak in as someone else or even just a new mutant like Xorn and then take them by surprise. Yet every time he's using his incredible powers, he's using them defensively. He seems to suffer from "Dark Lord Syndrome" where he has to sit back and operate through other agents when he could do whatever he wanted 10 times faster by doing it himself. This was particularly blatant in the cartoon series when just defeating his horesemen was enough to "demoralize" Apoc in his first appearance, convincing him to run when he could have taken on the X-Men. Then in "Time Fugitives Part 1", the X-Men stop his plan and he gets so pissed that he grows to 800 feet tall and kills them off, then in Part 2, they stop his plan again just like before but instead of killing them, he flees. So why does he feel the need to hold back in every battle to keep from killing the X-Men off?
- All Apocalypse wanted to do is strengthen the population, which he viewed as being too weak. He just had some weird methods of doing so that lead him into conflict with everyone else. That was his original intention anyway, taking over the world is some kind of Character Exaggeration or derailment; he had ruled a country before and left it behind. The Horsemen, Dark Riders or other group of the week were named for symbolism and used to make his plans go more efficiently. The first time the horsemen were defeated in the comics he wasn't that upset because there was a schism in their ranks he thought would make the horsemen stronger.
How on Earth do the X-Men have secret identities?
- They have code-names, but their costumes, with the exception of Cyclops, don't even cover their faces. How exactly are they trying to stay secret?
- All mutants look the same to civilians?
- Plus they all chill in the X-Mansion and don't really seem to have lives outside of it. Professor X's wealth covers all their expenses and they only go out in civilian clothes to shop or eat. Your point does make more sense when you think about how in the early days they used to be wanted fugitives and the press didn't know if they were heroes or villains; wouldn't it make sense that if they were on the news so much that a random shopkeeper would recognize them?
- Two ideas:
- First, the X-Men's identities aren't so much secret identities as they are codenames or callsigns, it seems to me... the X-Men just as often use their real names in "in-costume" conversation as they do their codenames.
- Second, although most writers who aren't Chris Claremont just blithely ignore it, any X-Men who survived the events in Fall of the Mutants (the battle with Naze/The Adversary and their being "killed" and reformed by Roma) — that would be, IIRC, Rogue, Dazzler, Psylocke, Colossus, Wolverine, Longshot, Havok, Storm and Madelyne Prior — are effectively invisible to all electronic scanning, including TV cameras and I believe photography. This was not, to my knowledge, ever retconned or nullified in continuity. So it's not like any news media would have a picture on file of any of those particular X-Men post-Dallas.
- Not ever retconned or nullified? You mean besides nobody ever following it anywhere? I think that kind of nullifies it. Besides, it's frankly ridiculous. They're mutants, not vampires. Also also? Wasn't Longshot's original claim to fame being star of Mojo's interdimensional TV show? Wasn't Dazzler a music star? Them being invisible to cameras and photography doesn't make any lick of sense, and it's probably less "writers who aren't Chris Claremont just blithely ignore it" and more "Claremont came up with a hairbrained idea that nobody else in their right mind used."
- How is it that Wolverine gets amnesia by bullet to the brain in Origins, but in 2 nothing happens?
- Because that was a specially made Adamantium bullet which could penetrate the metal laced into his skull. In X2 the bullet he gets hit with just flattens against his skull and gets pushed out without ever reaching his brain.
How do the X-Men finance their school and various other activities?
- The X-Mansion has loads and loads of technology, and the Xavier/Jean Grey Institute is a boarding school with the students living on the premises. Where do the X-Men get the money to run all this? The Avengers are sponsored by the goverment, but obviously that can't be the case with X-Men. It seems unlikely the school could run on tuition charges either, as many of the students are poor, outcasts, and/or have been disowned by their parents. The X-Men are never shown to have civilian jobs, except as teachers in the school. So where do they get their money?
Once upon a time you could Hand Wave this by saying, "Charles Xavier is very, very rich". But even Xavier couldn't have had infinite resources, and he hasn't actually been involved with the school for a long time, so that doesn't explain it either, nowadays.
- Maybe it could've once been handwaved as Xavier being a smart investor, or getting a financial grant of some sort, or has some investors. During the Frost/Summers days, Emma herself was a self-made millionaire so she herself could finance it. Utopia was its own, self sustained nation, similar to, but far less crazy than separatist sects. Logan's current school...got me. Maybe Logan's returned memory has lead to him remembering an old bank account he stored a lot of money that's increased via interest? Or maybe its a case of Logan being Logan.
- During Morrison's run, it was stated that they had no less than 3 multi-millionaires on staff (Emma Frost, Warren Worthington, and ?), and that Xavier himself was a billionaire. That gives them access to plenty of resources.
- Possibly, but neither Xavier or Emma Frost is involved with the current Jean Grey school (and with Emma being a wanted fugitive, it probably means her funds are frozen, so she couldn't use them to support the school even if she wanted to). Warren Worthington is there, but due to his death and rebirth he has (at least according to Wikipedia, I haven't read the issue where this is mentioned) lost the control of Worthington Industries. Maybe Xavier was indeed a smart investor, maybe he set up a foundation or something to fund the school, but AFAIK nothing like this has ever been mentioned during the years Xavier hasn't been involved with the school.
- This was a big plot point of the recent Wolverine series. After Warren's personal fortune was frozen Wolverine and the others ran around looking for a new source of funds, until Krakoa (who currently resides in the school grounds) offered to help out by producing organic diamonds. It's a lot more humorous than it sounds.
- How exactly do Rogue's powers work? Every description I've read says that the victim of her power loses their own ability for as long as Rogue has them. But I've read several issues where this doesn't happen: there's even one issue when the X-Men are on a mission in space and Rogue takes powers from Havok and Polaris, yet after this the three of them are able to use their powers simultaneously. Granted, it'd be pointless from an out-of-universe point of view to have Rogue render two of her teammates effectively useless, but can anyone think of an explanation for this?
- Perhaps the original only loses use for a few moments..? I'm more curious about Rogue not being able to have sex. I mean, technically, she could really. Her powers don't affect people through their clothes. Polyurethane, anyone?
- This site keeps saying that line was an example of Good Bad Translation. So, what was the original line?
- Odds are on it being "Welcome...now DIE!" or "Welcome...to HELL!", with the two getting mishmashed into the final form spoken.
- Or possibly "Welcome...to your DOOM!"
Hypocrisy: Mutants and Super Heroes
- I find it ridiculous(and almost comical) that people are acting hostile towards mutants, but seem cool with having the Fantastic Four, Spider-man, and the Avengers in their town. They have powers too. How the heck do the citizens know who were born with powers and who weren't? So, if Gambit lies to the public about his powers being the result of a lab accident, would they throw a parade at his honor?
- Yes, it is hypocritical. That is the point.
- Also, Spider-Man? He's a MENACE!
Who would have a kid with Sabertooth?
- Why in the world would Mystique sleep with Sabertooth of all people? Victor Creed is not exactly a lady's man. Was she raped?
- Of all people, Mystique would see beyond his savage nature, she was probably drawn to it. Alternatively, Mystique may have a touch of furre fetish.
Suddenly the ship sinks
- Uncanny X-Men #119. Storm talks to Nightcrawler outside the hospital where they're visiting Banshee, kisses him, and says that she loves him a lot. Has this ever been brought up again?
Why don't Cyclops' beams constantly make laser sounds behind his glasses?
- If he's constantly firing his optic blasts, why is it they're completely silent when his ruby-quartz glasses/visor blocks them? Why do they always make noises whenever the visor's triggered as if the laser has just started being blasted? Shouldn't a constant laser sound be audible at all times around Cyclops?
- As well as a blinding light before it reached the quartz? It has never made much sense to me that the quartz nullifies the beam like a vacuum. His beam is a stupendous, concussive FORCE, permanently spamming into the universe, why would ruby quartz have ANY effect on it? There may be a mystical reason behind it, but the live-action movies have no mysticism, it's all science, yet ruby quartz still holds back Cyclops beam for no good reason.
- No-Prize answer: maybe the quartz doesn't block the eyebeams, but rather diffuses it into harmless lightwaves outside the visible spectrum. Of course, this does nothing to explain why blasts of red light have concussive force rather than, you know, burning stuff up.
- Joss Whedon's Astonishing X-Men revealed that the reason Scott can't control his eye beams is actually psychosomatic, not physiological. So maybe the quartz glasses work only because Scott thinks they can stop his beams, so he subconsciously turns the beams off when the glasses are on?
- Several panels exist that support this, where in profile Scott's eyes are visible behind the shades. He tells Emma at one point that "the light becomes yellow" behind the visor, so it could go either way.
If Magneto rule the world, wouldn't discrimination still exist?
- Magneto wants a world where all mutants can live in peace. Even if he kill all the humans, there are white mutants, black mutants, asian mutants, gay mutants, etc. Wouldn't there still be some hate? So much for peace on earth.
- A comment in the animated series would suggest that the mutant discrimination has completely overshadowed all other forms of discrimination. Storm travels back in time and someone refuses to server her because she's black. She's not insulted, she's just surprised and calls racial discrimination quaint. Mutant discrimination has been such a huge social issue that any other from of discrimination would seem kind of petty and pointless afterwards. Especially since all the people of the world would be descendants from people who have suffered some pretty heavy discrimination. Most likely these issues would reappear but they probably wouldn't be major issues for decades if not centuries.
Why does the Juggernaut work with Magneto?
- As far as I know, he's not a mutant, just a guy powered by a magic ruby. Why is he part of the rather anti-human Magneto's Brotherhood?
- That would probably have to be because he doesn't work with Magneto. Juggernaut on the Brotherhood is one of the comic examples mentioned under Common Knowledge; everyone thinks it, but it's never actually happened. The only times it's happened have been in some of the animated series (namely X-Men: Evolution and Wolverine and the X-Men) and in Ultimate X-Men, and in all those situations it's because their version of Juggernaut is a mutant, not a magically powered individual.
What is Scott and Madelyne marital status is, now she has returned from the dead?
- As far as I know, Scott and Madelyne were still officaly married when Inferno happen and Madelyne died, but since then Scott has married Jean and she has died, so I was wondering what Scott and Madelyne marital status is, now that Maddie has returned from the dead?
- Since Madelyne had to be officially declared dead (or missing) for Scott to be able to marry Jean, that should mean their marriage was officially over.
- Not entirely true, in most real world jurisdictions anyway. The declaration of presumed death required to allow a party to remarry in the long-term absence of their spouse merely shields the party from charges of bigamy. If the missing spouse returns (and presses a claim), the second marriage is deemed void. However, this only applies in cases of presumptive rulings, and in the real world people don't actually die and come back from the dead. (Not counting being declared clinically dead then suddenly waking up, of course; here we're talking about long-term deadedness.) So in a universe where people actually die and come back from the dead weeks, months, years later... there are probably different laws.
Can Mister Sinister really be killed by decapitation?
- Deadpool killed him and his clones so easily in the Deadpool PS3 game. They were decapitated, stabbed, smashed, etc. We don't see them regenerate. After Deadpool kills the real Sinister, the game ends after that.
- In modern comics Sinister no longer has his awesome Healing Factor, so it makes sense that in the game he doesn't either.
Biological sex in shapeshifting mutants
- In the movies, Mystique's default (blue and scaly) shape appears to be female in the broad strokes (suggestions of breasts, wider hips, etc.) but with no evident details pointing to either male or female (for obvious reasons). I have also heard that in the comics, Mystique was able to sire some combination of Nightcrawler and Rogue, indicating her reproductive system is just as mutable as the rest of her. While she prefers to appear female and presents herself as such, what is her actual (biological) sex?
- Answer is in the question. She is a shapeshifter, so her anatomical arrangements are whatever she wants them to be at the time. We can't really put our binary definitions of sex onto her. I suppose, if you stretch the definitions a bit, she could be biologically hermaphrodite but even that doesn't really work. I would put her biological sex down on a form as "not applicable". Mystique identifies as female, so her gender is female though.
- First, slight correction: She isn't biologically related to Rogue — she took her in after Rogue ran away from her birth parents. The original plan in the comics was for Mystique to have sired Nightcrawler with her female lover; Executive Meddling prevented that reveal, though it did still hold that she's his mother. As to the question, given the way mutation works in Marvel — the mutant is, by all appearances, human until the mutation kicks in, usually around puberty — it's likely that Mystique was born biologically female, then turned blue and scaly and shapeshifty later on.
- That last point depends on the individual, actually. Nightcrawler himself was already born with his mutant appearance, only the teleportation powers took time to manifest. It's possible that Mystique was the same, born blue-skinned, but incapable of changing out of that until her powers matured.
Population, Paranoia and the Mutant "Species"
- In recent times, the writers appear to keep consciously making an effort to trim down the mutant population to just hundreds at most. Presumably this is meant to keep mutants from seeming too common, and thus allowing named characters to stand out more. The problem with this is that if the mutant population is just hundreds of people out of a total human population of billions, then why would they be regarded as being any different other superhumans, much less a "next step in human evolution"? Especially since the upsurge in mutants is historically linked to modern events, such as widespread atomic testing after WWII, a "mutant" is really not that different than people who acquired powers later in life by way of things like radioactive spider bites or cosmic ray storms encountered during spaceflight. In this case, as far as the public (unaware of the experimentation of the Celestials) knows, mutants are just people who were either genetically altered before birth, or else their parents were altered but did not acquire powers themselves. That mutants represent an evolutionary threat to humanity, when altered humans are not generally considered to be one, would only make sense if mutant births were a widespread phenomenon and the mutant population were rapidly increasing. But since the writers are determined to keep the mutant population low there doesn't seem to be any plausible argument for "Homo Sapiens Superior" being a "species" unto itself, especially since the only commonality between most mutants is the so-called "X-Gene". Why does anybody, including mutants themselves, take the notion of their being a "species" seriously?
- There still was a time when mutants were ever increasing in their numbers. The fact that the mutant population has dropped drastically is a setback, but doesn't mean that it couldn't hypothetically happen again, so it's still reasonable for people who believe that mutants might one day replace humanity. The idea that the rise in mutants was linked to atomic bomb testing has more or less been dropped and never really made sense to begin with (a lot of the time it was presented as theoretical- they didn't know where their powers came from and were just speculating). The drop in the mutant population was due to outside interference like the Scarlet Witch, so if nothing like that ever happens again then it is possible that the mutant populace might one day grow large enough to eclipse humans, and numbers have nothing to do with whether something is a separate "species" or not. As for why they consider themselves to be such when they only have an X-Gene in common and are actually just the products of alien experiments...well, most mutants probably don't know this, and the ones who do think might think of it as more of an irrelevant technicality (i.e. using "evolution" and "species" as inaccurate but informal term for mutants eventually becoming the dominant group on the planet). The language both sides use (eg. "Homo Superior") only reinforces this notion on a subconscious level. As for the humans, most ordinary people just aren't versed in the complexities and nuances of the mutant issue enough to know exactly what the differences are between mutants and non-mutant superhumans and don't really care (prejudices don't have to make empirical sense, after all) while the more extreme anti-mutant hate groups in most cases probably do have issues or suspicions about non-mutant superhumans as well, though mostly it comes down to a) seeing mutants as a potential "evolutionary" threat, b) the existence of mutant supremacy terrorist groups (anti-mutant groups being a backlash), c) fear and hatred arising from ignorance d) the manipulation of more informed but less scrupulous individuals (e.g. Bastion, who stores up anti-mutant hatred simply because that's what he was programmed to do, not because he is unaware of the technical differences; William Striker, who is an Ax-Crazy fundamentalist extremist, and others who might simply want power and /or are using mutants as a scapegoat), e) bad experiences with dangerous mutants that "evolved" (no pun intended) into an irrational prejudice.
- Or maybe it's just a colony of evil bacteria messing with everybody's heads. Who knows.
In the comics, does Xavier have 2 identities like Clark Kent/Superman?
- In the 90s cartoon, he wasn't outed as a mutant until the season finale, so I assume he had 2 identities, the school professor and the X-men leader. Here's the headscratcher...there are times when he is seen with his X-men (without a mask). Why wasn't he caught before?
- Psychic powers.