Broken Base / Music

• Hip-Hop is divided between pure Hip-Hop fans, Alternative Rap fans, Gangsta Rap fans, Political Rap fans, Hardcore Hip-Hop fans, Conscious Hip Hop fans vs. fans of overtly mainstream poppish "bling bling" styled "Glam Rap" arguably Swag Rap^note  Swag Rap, fairly or not, is often seen as no different than Glam rap. Some don't even see it as rap, but another genre entirely Trap Music, and Mumble Rap. But to simplify it, it generally boils down to divisions mainly between the normally underground/gutter/gangsta/anti-establishment/grimy/Alternative and conscious hip hop heads and the fans of artists that rhymed about material wealth, capitalism and the like. The former groups don't get a long that much either, but has some form of respect towards one another and tends to crosspolinate, and seem to be united againt the latter group of fans. Don't even get started on the regionalism though, we'll be here all day.
  • The narrowing of the urban radio format, and song selection, and exclusivity (including music video blocks during the 00's) has exacerbated this problem. As they tend to favor Glam Rap type songs and videos because they are seen as "Safe". Which causes a lot of bitter resentment. So the argument isn't necessarily about whether or not Soulja Boy is real hip-hop, (or alternativly "Stop Having Fun" Guys,) But about the marginalization of everything else in favor of SOLELY supporting rappers like Soulja Boy or generic club anthem rap songs.
  • Speaking of gangster rap, there's a debate going on about whether or not the genre is dead. Fans of the first wave of gangsta rappers (the anti-authoritarian, anti-establishment, and politically conscious era) felt that it died along time ago. Other, more cynical hip-hop fans (usually indie/alt-rap fans) feels that the current rap is no different from the earlier form, despite the fact that its more Lighter and Softer.
    • Within Gangsta Rap, how important is the "gangsta" part? Accusations of being fake are common in rap beefs and in fan discussions, but others still warn these new artists that rapping about real crimes and real gang rivaries can invite trouble from rivals and the police.
  • The hip-hop fan division appears to also have subtle shades of classism in addition to regionalism, as the aforementioned urban sub-genres appeal to rap fans of two very different socioeconomic backgrounds (albeit probably unintentionally). Rap that deals with "urban, inner city issues" tends to appeal to middle- and lower- income blue-collar fans, while glamorous club-oriented stuff appeals to upper middle-class suburban fans. Causing all kinds of flame wars over content.
  • Yet another point of contention within the Hip-Hop community is whether or not the state of current Hip-Hop is natural progression or is astro turfed thanks to The Powers That Be, Executive Meddling and due to the fact that Music Is Politics.
  • To that end it gets more complicated if you believe the mainstream media and white America is the one that's driving hip-hop now instead of the inner city/urban culture, blacks and Latinos. Some even believe young urban black culture is being marginalized, or, more ominously, phased out within Hip-Hop culture.
    • Discussed in this Spin article. Basically, people are saying hip hop is being gentrified.
  • There's also those who judge artists on "relevance" rather than talent and credentials. This also further divides fans. But this isn't just unique to the Hip-hop genre though.
  • When and where did The Golden Age of Hip Hop begin and end? Some say it's around the late 80's to early to mid 90's. A few hardliners say it's just the early to mid 80's only. Believers of the latter constitute a Vocal Minority.
  • Autotune, skinny jeans, face tattoos, what drugs it's acceptable to rap about using and not, are or have been massive debates among rap fans.
  • Related to the above is the issue of fashion. In the beginning it was the style of furry Kangols and big gold chains, vs the people who wore things like kente cloth designed clothes and African medallions. With both sides calling each other "fake". For the modern era it's skinny jeans vs people who still prefer loose fitting jeans.
• Within the dubstep fandom, fans of the more bass-driven, minimalistic sounds of Burial or Skream and fans of the more aggressive "Brostep" such as Flux Pavilion or Rusko get into flame wars that you wouldn't believe. There is no middle ground.
• AC/DC: Who's their better frontman? Bon Scott or Brian Johnson?
• AFI seem to have a solid divide between fans of their hardcore punk period of 1994-2000 and their goth-influenced works from 2003 on, with rather ugly flamewars raging to this day. Neither side seems to like Crash Love much, however.
• The rap group Bone Thugs-n-Harmony has such a varied and diverse style that they ended up creating a varied and diverse fanbase. This diverse fan base always ends up in heated flame wars over what direction the group should take musically. The debates (or arguments) range from style, subject matter and whether or not to have guest features. The group even has a problem maintaining the small but loyal Broken Base that they do have, due to the fact there are more fans of certain individual members than the actual group as a whole. There's also a very contentious debate regarding what caused the group to lose popularity. Some say it's because their music changed. While others say it's because of changing trends in the Hip-Hop industry, and the music industry over all. Quite a few say all of the above. The beef with Migos has kinda unified most of the fanbase, but there's still some dissent in regards to the beef as some Bone fans are apparently Migos fans.
• This happened to the British indie band The Horrors. The songs on their first album and their singles were fast, short bursts of goth-influenced garage punk often not lasting more than two minutes. Then in early 2009 came the video for "Sea Within A Sea", the first single from their second album. It was slower, more atmospheric and Joy Division-sounding and most troubling to fans, eight minutes long. Some fans cried bloody murder. Other fans welcomed the new sound with open arms and praised their new tighter sound. Needless to say, any forum discussing the band has degraded down to two dozen active flame wars about the subject between the two sides.
• In Flames' older albums are often praised for being melodic death metal masterpieces, but when they changed their sound in 2002 with Reroute to Remain it caused a bitter flame war between "old" and "new" In Flames fans that still hasn't ceased; if you look on a comments section involving In Flames anywhere, it's very likely there'll be a debate (or flamewar) over new vs. old In Flames.
• Fall Out Boy has been experiencing this for more than a decade. While they have always been willing to experiment with pop sounds (ever since Infinity on High in 2006), their releases post-hiatus have taken this Up to Eleven, especially American Beauty/American Psycho and MANIA. The lead single on every new album nowadays is an introduction to whatever sound they’re trying out, and they always invoke a passionate and polarized response from the fandom.
• Panic! at the Disco's first two albums are a notable example in that the creative difference the fandom broke over quite literally broke up the band itself. A Fever You Can’t Sweat Out has complicated, baroque instrumentations with a dance-pop sound, with Ryan Ross’s verbose lyrics. Pretty. Odd. takes a lot of inspiration from Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band-era Beatles and folk rock. After Pretty. Odd.’s release, Ryan Ross and Jon Walker departed and formed The Young Veins, a band very similar in style to Pretty. Odd.-era Panic, while Brendon Urie and Spencer Smith went back to a pop-punk sound with Vices & Virtues.
• My Chemical Romance’s base is pretty toxic and broken in just about every respect, but let’s focus on the music. Their first two albums (I Brought You My Bullets, You Brought Me Your Love and Three Cheers for Sweet Revenge) are rougher, louder, and much more Hardcore Punk and Post-Hardcore. The Black Parade is a theatrical, operatic concept album influenced by 70s progressive and glam rock, while Danger Days: The True Lives of the Fabulous Killjoys is another concept album with a garage rock and dance-rock vibe. Some fans prefer the harder-edged sound of the first two albums, and you’ll find arguments in the fandom about which one is the best even now.
• Steven Wilson:
  • "Normal" or "Sentimental". Both songs share the same chorus and many of the same lyrics, with the former being more acoustic and focusing on vocal harmonies, and the latter focusing more on ambience and generally being more ... sentimental.
  • To the Bone, Wilson’s latest solo album, almost split the fanbase in two: One half being his old fans who wanted more rock, and the other being mostly new fans who like or may even prefer his new classic pop directon.
• Twenty One Pilots. Their major-label debut Vessel (2013) is widely considered their best album and 2015’s Blurryface was a huge, Grammy-winning pop success. Most fans agree they are excellent albums in their own right, but some miss the less polished production and less poppy sound of their self-titled album and Regional at Best, both of which were self-released.
• The Rock-n-Roll Hall of Fame's admission choices have always been controversial, but the most persistent conflict is over whether non-rock artists deserve to be inducted, with particular scorn towards the inclusion of rappers. One side claims that the Rock-n-Roll Hall of Fame should be specifically for rock musicians and that artists of other genres should have their own halls of fame, while the other side counters that "Rock-n-Roll" refers to popular music in general and not specifically the rock genre, which long ago evolved into its own thing, and limiting inductees to just rock would unfairly exclude the majority of black musicians.
• Dream Theater saw a major rift occur among its fans when their drummer, Mike Portnoy, left the band and got replaced by Mike Mangini. Portnoy is widely considered one of the best metal drummers of all time, so his departure was seen as the end of an era, and some fans choose to disregard everything released afterwards as Fanon Discontinuity. However, Mangini is an extraordinarily talented drummer in his own right, and some think that he makes for a more than suitable replacement, or even that he's the superior drummer of the two. And then there's a third group, which feels that while Mangini is more skilled on the technical level, he lacks Portnoy's energy and stage presence, with his drumming style often being criticized as "machine-like". While some fans think Mangini is improving with each album he plays on, he's still a highly controversial topic among fans of the band, and you can easily spark a flame war by bringing him up.
• Styx: Fans are split as to whether Kilroy Was Here's poppier sound was for the better or not.
• Folk Music: On the one hand, purists who insist on using only traditional acoustic instruments for the Unplugged Version. On the other hand, rockers who don't mind including electric guitars, resulting in Folk Rock, Folk Punk, and even Folk Metal. This can get very contentious among fans, perhaps most notoriously when Bob Dylan switched from acoustic to electric guitar mid-set at a folk festival.
• Punk Rock divides into smaller and more hardcore sects the further down you go. Starting from stadium filling pop punk and legacy acts going down the list to indie labels, DIY spaces to house shows to squatters and crust punks.
  • Against Me! has seen the fanbase fissure at many turns as it moved from being just Laura Jane Grace busking as a solo Folk Punk on the streets of Fort Lauderdale to eventually signing with Sire Records, with each move prompting some fans to denounce the band as sell outs.
• Happened to Mariah Carey when she started adding more Hip-Hop and straightforward R&B to her music. With some fans saying she only did it because she was getting insecure about her race.
  • Daydream is either her last good album, or her first bad one depending on who you ask.
• For Madonna the divide usually boils down to 80s Madonna vs 90s Madonna vs 00's Madonna.
  • Was Erotica really a bad album or was it underrated? And just Like Mariah Madonna started experimenting with Hip-Hop and R&B and created the Bedtime Stories album. A good album in it's own right or another misstep?
• Like Madonna, Janet Jackson has a similar divide in regards to the different decades and eras of her music. 80s vs 90s vs 00s.
• Fans of girl group XOMG POP! are divided as to whether Leigha being suddenly fired was a decision that broke the group, or whether the group seemed to be thriving with smaller numbers.