History BrokenBase / Music

14th Nov '16 5:44:01 PM EllaMegablast
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!!Music in general



* Music/ArcadeFire successfully break their base with every release they make:
** In 2004, when they released ''Funeral'', fans were split towards whether or not the sound from their first EP was better than the sound on ''Funeral''.
** In 2007, when they released their second album, ''Neon Bible'', some fans were displeased with the "darker" sound they got. To make matters more confusing, critics were the same way.
** Then, in 2010, when they released ''Music/TheSuburbs'', the fanbase basically split yet again. This time into several sections. There are now people that have a certain combination of Arcade Fire albums they like and dislike. This creates some pretty heated arguments between their fans.
* {{Music/AFI}} seem to have a solid divide between fans of their hardcore punk period of 1994-2000 and their goth-influenced works from 2003 on, with rather ugly flamewars raging to this day. Neither side seems to like [[NewSoundAlbum Crash Love]] much, however.



* Music/TupacShakur fans usually fight over which album showcased the ''[[AlternateCharacterInterpretation real]]'' Tupac. The albums in question are "Me Against the World" VS. "All Eyez on Me". Proponents of the first claim that it's better because of its depth and dark, introspective approach, while claiming that AEOM is just a typical mainstream rap album people jumped on the bandwagon for.
* The Music/AvengedSevenfold fandom is broadly split thus:
** Those who listen primarily to metalcore/post-hardcore tend to gravitate towards the band's first two albums, ''Sounding the Seventh Trumpet'' and ''Waking the Fallen''.
** Those who don't care much for metalcore/post-hardcore, but who are fans of straightforward hard rock bordering on heavy metal, would prefer the band's output from ''City of Evil'' onward.
** On another note, "Hail to the King" was not only the first album to be recorded without any input whatsoever from the late Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan, but also takes on a significantly different direction from the previous three albums (although probably not quite as drastically as ''City of Evil'' did from ''Waking the Fallen''). According to lead singer M Shadows, the album can be described as "more blues rock-influenced and more like classic rock and classic metal in the vein of Music/BlackSabbath and Music/LedZeppelin". Quite naturally, this album would be even more disdained by those who prefer the band's STST/WTF-era style. But even a significant portion of those who have enjoyed the past three albums find the style to be too much of a departure for them.
** Also, arguments abound over who is the better drummer: Arin or Jimmy.
* Music/BlackFlag is perhaps the most polarizing example of a broken base for a punk band. First, there are camps of fans that prefer either the pre-1984 Flag (consisting of raw fast-paced punk) or the 1984-1986 Flag (which consisted of slow, repetitive avant-garde experiments in an attempt to push the band's sound forward). Then, there are fans divided by the singer (either Keith Morris, Dez Cadena, Ron Reyes {who was involuntarily credited by the band as "Chavo Pederast"}, and [[FaceOfTheBand Henry Rollins]]).
* Music/BoneThugsNHarmony:
** The group has such a varied and diverse style that they ended up creating a varied and diverse fanbase. This diverse fan base always ends up in heated flame wars over what direction the group should take musically. The debates (or arguments) range from style and subject matter to whether or not to have guest features. The group even has a problem maintaining the small but loyal BrokenBase that they do have, due to the fact there are more fans of certain individual members than the actual group as a whole. There's also a very contentious debate regarding what caused the group to lose popularity. Some say it's because [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks their music changed]]. Others say it's because of [[LighterAndSofter changing trends in the Hip-Hop industry]], not to mention [[MusicIsPolitics the music industry overall]]. Quite a few say all of the above.
** Then there's the departure of a certain member... who later returned... sort of. But the embittered division is still there. This also adds more fuel to the fire because of the reason he was ousted and the fact the group isn't quite the same without him. Others would say he was on the decline due to his substance abuse issues and his unprofessionalism when it came to not showing up for video shoots and concerts.
** There's the fact that the ''other'' EnsembleDarkhorse (Krayzie Bone) was asked to leave. Wish Bone left with him and things just kept going from bad to worse among the fans. They have also also returned. But Layzie hung separately to promote his own ventures, while insisting he hasn't left the group.
** ''The Art Of War'' album by far... (and to a lesser extent the Resurrection album).
* Music/{{Pantera}}, especially when it comes to critics of Phil Anselmo and his supporters. The murder of Dimebag Darrell, the well-loved guitarist of the band at the hands of a fan of Anselmo, has made the situation [[IncrediblyLamePun fucking hostile]].



* Baroque era music performance is split into "period instruments" vs. "modern instruments" proponents.
* {{Opera}} vs. Symphony was a popular (and heated) topic in the 1800s.
** It's still a big deal now - go to any music conservatory, even a really prestigious one, and prepare to be amazed at how little the singers generally know about orchestral music, and likewise, how little the instrumentalists know about opera.
** Before the late Romantic era, symphonies were primarily written for the aristocracy or wealthy patrons of some kind. On the other hand, operas, while often viewed by the wealthy, were also popular among the middle-class. It was not rare for people to gamble at the opera, or even bring prostitutes into the balconies. Traditional orchestral music (like symphonies) had more of an air of austerity, which helps to explain some of the divisiveness.
** Music/GiuseppeVerdi opera (Italian) vs. Music/RichardWagner opera (German) was a further division of this debate, and continues to this day.
*** Wagner alone is probably the most [[LoveItOrHateIt divisive]] figure in opera. Nobody is neutral about him (and that's probably how he wanted it to be). He even rejected the term "opera" itself, using "Bühnenfestspiel" (music-drama) to describe his own such works.
*** The Wagner controversy, it should be mentioned, has been ongoing since Wagner was in his early thirties (the original leader of the anti-Wagner camp was Viennese music critic and philosopher Edouard Hanslick) and has been going strong since.
*** To be sure, it ''is'' a difficult choice: ''Come into my shop, let me cut your mop, let me shave your crop . . . daintily!'' versus ''Kill the wabbit!''
** Opera buffs in general tend to be divided between fans of "traditional opera" (i.e. mainly Mozart and bel canto, and no further than Verdi or Puccini) and fans of more modern opera, with Wagner usually being the dividing line between the two camps. And that's not even going into the "baroque opera" fans...
** Opera also has the "traditional production" vs. "Regietheatre/Eurotrash production/anything-goes-in-art" debate. Defenders of Regietheater cite it as a deconstruction of the original opera with a focus on the director's vision, bringing a fresh new perspective to an already well-known work. Critics argue they're just talentless hacks unable to produce art that would attract an audience, so they hijack a master's work to promote whatever modern issue they want to bring up with a focus on shocking and disgusting the audience.
** Not to mention the singer wars: Maria Callas vs. Renata Tebaldi and Placido Domingo vs. Music/LucianoPavarotti to name the two bloodiest conflicts. Mario Lanza: great classical tenor, or overhyped Hollywood version of same? And of course "There are no good singers today" vs. "There are too!"
** On even more fundamental levels: is translating operas into other languages a brilliant move to make the material more accessible to people who would otherwise be put off the art form, or an inexcusable mangling of the material which places far too much pressure on the singers? This one has petered off in the last decade or so, with the surtitling machine considered an acceptable middle ground by all but the die-hards.
** There is also the question of whether spoken recitatives are acceptable, i.e. is it OK to save the singing for the arias and other important bits, and just say all the dialogue in between, or does that dialogue have to be sung too?
* With instruments that have a history of good repertoire extending back to the baroque or classical period (e.g. piano, organ, violin, cello, flute, guitar), there's a division between those players who embrace contemporary music, and those who prefer the older stuff - and these debates can get pretty heated. Instruments that have only developed a good solo repertoire in the past 100 years - ex. saxophone, percussion, tuba - have less division on this matter because their players have no choice but to play the newer stuff.
* Musical theater fans are divided between those who prefer the earlier Broadway style of Rodgers & Hammerstein (or [[Theatre/{{Showboat}} even earlier]]), versus modern musicals. Heck, they even made a musical (''The Drowsy Chaperone'') ''about'' the whole debate.
* CountryMusic, definitely. Country music blogs and message boards are replete with lengthy arguments over what constitutes genuine country music, and if modern mainstream Nashville pop-country fits the definition.
* Section rivalry within concert and marching bands varies, from friendly ribbing to all-out hatred.
* In general, R&B attracts this. Fans of R&B/Pop stars vs fans of more "pure" and "mature" R&B/Soul vocalists artists have major problems. This goes as far back as the Motown vs. STAX/Volt rivalry of TheSeventies. The modern version of that rivalry basically boils down to fans of artists like Music/{{Rihanna}}, Kristina Debarge, Mya, Music/ChrisBrown, Keri Hilson, etc vs. fans of artists like Anthony Hamilton, Music/IndiaArie, Leela James, Amel Larrieux, Kem, Music/JillScott, Angie Stone, Goapale etc. The fans of the former group of artists thinks the latter artists' style is outdated and boring, and their fans are a bunch of out of touch elitists. The latter usually calls the former group of artists "Industry Whores" whom along with the record companies are impeding the success of the "true musicians".
* {{Dubstep}}, to ridiculous degrees. Fans of the more bass-driven, minimalistic sounds of Music/{{Burial}} or Skream and fans of the more aggressive "Brostep" such as Flux Pavilion or Rusko get into flame wars that you wouldn't believe. There is no middle ground.
* Any 21st-century country act with a rock edge and a propensity towards Southern-themed songs, often about girls and/or trucks. Examples include Music/JasonAldean, Music/BrantleyGilbert, Music/LukeBryan, and Music/FloridaGeorgiaLine. Some like them for their accessibility and harder sound, while others think them to be posers who trade in one cliché for another in hopes of pleasing radio programmers. The movement has been dubbed "bro-country".
* Drum & bugle corps. Mother of Mercy, drum & bugle corps. Old-school vs. really old school vs. 80s vs 90s versus modern, G bugles versus B flat brass, etc. - the issue most argued about seems to be amps and electronics in the pit. And of course, fans of the individual corps have been going at it since the beginning (lately, there seems to be considerable animosity between fans of the Blue Devils and fans of Carolina Crown).
** Drum Corps International: Is it an organization that encourages creativity and selflessly promotes the activity, or is it an elitist cartel who has turned drum corps from an all-inclusive youth activity with military roots to an over-expensive, artsy-fartsy haven for music and dance majors? The two main forums for drum corps, Drum Corps Planet (DCP) and Rec.Arts.Marching.Drumcorps (RAMD) have hosted thousands of [[FlameWar flame wars]] over this issue.
** Many corps directors are subject to this, with Cadets director George Hopkins being the biggest BaseBreaker. Is he a creative genius whose concepts and innovations (including the above-mentioned amplification and electronics) have taken drum corps in new and exciting directions, or have the changes he has brought forward resulted in drum corps being RuinedForever?
* For jazz fans, there's traditional jazz vs. jazz fusion.
* Listening to music via cloud services vs. listening to local copies of music. Fans of the former enjoy not having to worry about storage and being able to listen to their music on any device that can access their service of choice. Fans of the latter argue that local copies do not need an Internet connection to listen to and that cloud services come and go; after all, one can listen to [=MP3=] or FLAC copies of their music 30 years from now, while the service one currently uses might not exist anymore in 30 years.
* In the area of Norwegian folk music, Music/HardangerFiddle players are victims to this, and the broken base is actually OlderThanTheyThink. When one particular area in question has more than one capable fiddler (with or without legendary status), things can get ''nasty'' because the two fiddlers gather their own fans around them. When discussing which of them is most "genuine" or just the best performer, full on FlameWar ensues.
** A "change" in the mode of playing, or whether the fiddlers were "better" in the old days, or better nowadays, results in the same debates.
* American listeners of a couple of ItaloDisco songs such as "Plastic Doll" by Dharma, "Not Love" by Trilogy, and "I Need Love" by Capricorn have argued over the best speed to play these songs. People from cities such as those in the east coast and notably UsefulNotes/{{Chicago}} enjoy listening at the slower but correct speed intended by the artists. People from southern UsefulNotes/{{California}} prefer the faster 45 rpm speed.
* Happens with classic rock too. Is classic rock just a radio format or a distinct style of its own? What should the cutoff year be? Are 90's (or even late 80's) rock allowed to be classics? Should so-and-so band be considered classic rock? (The latter debate is especially prominent with [[Music/GunsNRoses Guns N' Roses]], Music/{{Metallica}}, Music/{{Nirvana}}, and Music/PearlJam.)
** Same situation with classic HipHop. Anything pass 2000 on a classic hip-hop station is heavily contentious.
* "What is [[HeavyMetal Metal]]?" is an extremely loaded question. Bands like Music/WithinTemptation and Music/{{Babymetal}} have come under fire for not being 'real' metal. Babymetal in particular has had an InternetBackdraft because their image goes so very against what people consider metal music.
* {{Trance}} has what is quite possibly the most fractured fanbase in ElectronicMusic. Arguments mainly center on what constitutes [[NoTrueScotsman "true"]] trance (the weird and trippy psychedelic trance versus the euphoric and emotional uplifting trance, which is just one of many inner fandom rivalries), with the fandom continuing to schism more and more due to the sheer number of subgenres within the larger scene and the directions the genre has taken over the years, especially in the increasingly commercialized climate of TheNewTens ElectronicMusic scene.

!!Specific bands and artists
* Music/ArcadeFire successfully break their base with every release they make:
** In 2004, when they released ''Funeral'', fans were split towards whether or not the sound from their first EP was better than the sound on ''Funeral''.
** In 2007, when they released their second album, ''Neon Bible'', some fans were displeased with the "darker" sound they got. To make matters more confusing, critics were the same way.
** Then, in 2010, when they released ''Music/TheSuburbs'', the fanbase basically split yet again. This time into several sections. There are now people that have a certain combination of Arcade Fire albums they like and dislike. This creates some pretty heated arguments between their fans.
* {{Music/AFI}} seem to have a solid divide between fans of their hardcore punk period of 1994-2000 and their goth-influenced works from 2003 on, with rather ugly flamewars raging to this day. Neither side seems to like [[NewSoundAlbum Crash Love]] much, however.
* Music/TupacShakur fans usually fight over which album showcased the ''[[AlternateCharacterInterpretation real]]'' Tupac. The albums in question are "Me Against the World" VS. "All Eyez on Me". Proponents of the first claim that it's better because of its depth and dark, introspective approach, while claiming that AEOM is just a typical mainstream rap album people jumped on the bandwagon for.
* The Music/AvengedSevenfold fandom is broadly split thus:
** Those who listen primarily to metalcore/post-hardcore tend to gravitate towards the band's first two albums, ''Sounding the Seventh Trumpet'' and ''Waking the Fallen''.
** Those who don't care much for metalcore/post-hardcore, but who are fans of straightforward hard rock bordering on heavy metal, would prefer the band's output from ''City of Evil'' onward.
** On another note, "Hail to the King" was not only the first album to be recorded without any input whatsoever from the late Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan, but also takes on a significantly different direction from the previous three albums (although probably not quite as drastically as ''City of Evil'' did from ''Waking the Fallen''). According to lead singer M Shadows, the album can be described as "more blues rock-influenced and more like classic rock and classic metal in the vein of Music/BlackSabbath and Music/LedZeppelin". Quite naturally, this album would be even more disdained by those who prefer the band's STST/WTF-era style. But even a significant portion of those who have enjoyed the past three albums find the style to be too much of a departure for them.
** Also, arguments abound over who is the better drummer: Arin or Jimmy.
* Music/BlackFlag is perhaps the most polarizing example of a broken base for a punk band. First, there are camps of fans that prefer either the pre-1984 Flag (consisting of raw fast-paced punk) or the 1984-1986 Flag (which consisted of slow, repetitive avant-garde experiments in an attempt to push the band's sound forward). Then, there are fans divided by the singer (either Keith Morris, Dez Cadena, Ron Reyes {who was involuntarily credited by the band as "Chavo Pederast"}, and [[FaceOfTheBand Henry Rollins]]).
* Music/BoneThugsNHarmony:
** The group has such a varied and diverse style that they ended up creating a varied and diverse fanbase. This diverse fan base always ends up in heated flame wars over what direction the group should take musically. The debates (or arguments) range from style and subject matter to whether or not to have guest features. The group even has a problem maintaining the small but loyal BrokenBase that they do have, due to the fact there are more fans of certain individual members than the actual group as a whole. There's also a very contentious debate regarding what caused the group to lose popularity. Some say it's because [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks their music changed]]. Others say it's because of [[LighterAndSofter changing trends in the Hip-Hop industry]], not to mention [[MusicIsPolitics the music industry overall]]. Quite a few say all of the above.
** Then there's the departure of a certain member... who later returned... sort of. But the embittered division is still there. This also adds more fuel to the fire because of the reason he was ousted and the fact the group isn't quite the same without him. Others would say he was on the decline due to his substance abuse issues and his unprofessionalism when it came to not showing up for video shoots and concerts.
** There's the fact that the ''other'' EnsembleDarkhorse (Krayzie Bone) was asked to leave. Wish Bone left with him and things just kept going from bad to worse among the fans. They have also also returned. But Layzie hung separately to promote his own ventures, while insisting he hasn't left the group.
** ''The Art Of War'' album by far... (and to a lesser extent the Resurrection album).
* Music/{{Pantera}}, especially when it comes to critics of Phil Anselmo and his supporters. The murder of Dimebag Darrell, the well-loved guitarist of the band at the hands of a fan of Anselmo, has made the situation [[IncrediblyLamePun fucking hostile]].



** Not to mention their increasing trend towards becoming Music/{{U2}}, with more rock-driven albums than previous and less Shinoda.

to:

** Not to mention their increasing trend towards becoming Music/{{U2}}, with more rock-driven albums than previous previously and less Shinoda.



** And of course, there's" the whole which member is the best" argument. Some say Chili was the REAL singer in the group, while others think Left Eye was the only good thing about the group. Others thought T-Boz is/was the whole group.

to:

** And of course, there's" there's the whole which "which member is the best" argument. Some say Chili was the REAL singer in the group, while others think Left Eye was the only good thing about the group. Others thought T-Boz is/was the whole group.



\\



* An odd obscure one... Folk singer Old Man Ludecke and any album/song he has a duet on.

to:

* An odd obscure one... Folk folk singer Old Man Ludecke and any album/song he has a duet on.



* Baroque era music performance is split into "period instruments" vs. "modern instruments" proponents.
* {{Opera}} vs. Symphony was a popular (and heated) topic in the 1800s.
** It's still a big deal now - go to any music conservatory, even a really prestigious one, and prepare to be amazed at how little the singers generally know about orchestral music, and likewise, how little the instrumentalists know about opera.
** Before the late Romantic era, symphonies were primarily written for the aristocracy or wealthy patrons of some kind. On the other hand, operas, while often viewed by the wealthy, were also popular among the middle-class. It was not rare for people to gamble at the opera, or even bring prostitutes into the balconies. Traditional orchestral music (like symphonies) had more of an air of austerity, which helps to explain some of the divisiveness.
** Music/GiuseppeVerdi opera (Italian) vs. Music/RichardWagner opera (German) was a further division of this debate, and continues to this day.
*** Wagner alone is probably the most [[LoveItOrHateIt divisive]] figure in opera. Nobody is neutral about him (and that's probably how he wanted it to be). He even rejected the term "opera" itself, using "Bühnenfestspiel" (music-drama) to describe his own such works.
*** The Wagner controversy, it should be mentioned, has been ongoing since Wagner was in his early thirties (the original leader of the anti-Wagner camp was Viennese music critic and philosopher Edouard Hanslick) and has been going strong since.
*** To be sure, it ''is'' a difficult choice: ''Come into my shop, let me cut your mop, let me shave your crop . . . daintily!'' versus ''Kill the wabbit!''
** Opera buffs in general tend to be divided between fans of "traditional opera" (i.e. mainly Mozart and bel canto, and no further than Verdi or Puccini) and fans of more modern opera, with Wagner usually being the dividing line between the two camps. And that's not even going into the "baroque opera" fans...
** Opera also has the "traditional production" vs. "Regietheatre/Eurotrash production/anything-goes-in-art" debate. Defenders of Regietheater cite it as a deconstruction of the original opera with a focus on the director's vision, bringing a fresh new perspective to an already well-known work. Critics argue they're just talentless hacks unable to produce art that would attract an audience, so they hijack a master's work to promote whatever modern issue they want to bring up with a focus on shocking and disgusting the audience.
** Not to mention the singer wars: Maria Callas vs. Renata Tebaldi and Placido Domingo vs. Music/LucianoPavarotti to name the two bloodiest conflicts. Mario Lanza: great classical tenor, or overhyped Hollywood version of same? And of course "There are no good singers today" vs. "There are too!"
** On even more fundamental levels: is translating operas into other languages a brilliant move to make the material more accessible to people who would otherwise be put off the art form, or an inexcusable mangling of the material which places far too much pressure on the singers? This one has petered off in the last decade or so, with the surtitling machine considered an acceptable middle ground by all but the die-hards.
** There is also the question of whether spoken recitatives are acceptable, i.e. is it OK to save the singing for the arias and other important bits, and just say all the dialogue in between, or does that dialogue have to be sung too?
* With instruments that have a history of good repertoire extending back to the baroque or classical period (e.g. piano, organ, violin, cello, flute, guitar), there's a division between those players who embrace contemporary music, and those who prefer the older stuff - and these debates can get pretty heated. Instruments that have only developed a good solo repertoire in the past 100 years - ex. saxophone, percussion, tuba - have less division on this matter because their players have no choice but to play the newer stuff.
* Musical theater fans are divided between those who prefer the earlier Broadway style of Rodgers & Hammerstein (or [[Theatre/{{Showboat}} even earlier]]), versus modern musicals. Heck, they even made a musical (''The Drowsy Chaperone'') ''about'' the whole debate.



* CountryMusic, definitely. Country music blogs and message boards are replete with lengthy arguments over what constitutes genuine country music, and if modern mainstream Nashville pop-country fits the definition.



* Section rivalry within concert and marching bands varies, from friendly ribbing to all-out hatred.
* In general, R&B attracts this. Fans of R&B/Pop stars vs fans of more "pure" and "mature" R&B/Soul vocalists artists have major problems. This goes as far back as the Motown vs. STAX/Volt rivalry of TheSeventies. The modern version of that rivalry basically boils down to fans of artists like Music/{{Rihanna}}, Kristina Debarge, Mya, Music/ChrisBrown, Keri Hilson, etc vs. fans of artists like Anthony Hamilton, Music/IndiaArie, Leela James, Amel Larrieux, Kem, Music/JillScott, Angie Stone, Goapale etc. The fans of the former group of artists thinks the latter artists' style is outdated and boring, and their fans are a bunch of out of touch elitists. The latter usually calls the former group of artists "Industry Whores" whom along with the record companies are impeding the success of the "true musicians".
* {{Dubstep}}, to ridiculous degrees. Fans of the more bass-driven, minimalistic sounds of Music/{{Burial}} or Skream and fans of the more aggressive "Brostep" such as Flux Pavilion or Rusko get into flame wars that you wouldn't believe. There is no middle ground.



* KK Downing vs. Glenn Tipton of Music/JudasPriest

to:

* KK Downing vs. Glenn Tipton of Music/JudasPriestMusic/JudasPriest.



* ''Greatset hits'' albums vs ''The Best of..'' albums. Fans of the former think the later includes mostly filler while the "hits" record contains the cream of the crop. Fans of the latter think the former excludes a lot of fan favorites that weren't singles and consider "Best Of" collection to be more comprehensive. While considering the "Hits" album to be mostly "BlackSheepHit..''The Album''".



** This the case every time a urban artist tries to cross over... for better or for worse.



* Any 21st-century country act with a rock edge and a propensity towards Southern-themed songs, often about girls and/or trucks. Examples include Music/JasonAldean, Music/BrantleyGilbert, Music/LukeBryan, and Music/FloridaGeorgiaLine. Some like them for their accessibility and harder sound, while others think them to be posers who trade in one cliché for another in hopes of pleasing radio programmers. The movement has been dubbed "bro-country".



* Music/SilversunPickups. You'll either think that "Neck of the Woods" is another great album, or a bad, more bland, change in sound.



* Vanity 6 vs Apollonia 6.



* Which brings us to Music/JayZ, whom some believed kept making good music. But others believe those albums just didn't have the same musical depth of ''Music/ReasonableDoubt'' (his classic debut album), [[QualityByPopularVote no matter how popular they were]].

to:

* Which brings us to Music/JayZ, whom some believed kept making good music. But others Music/JayZ. Some fans believe those his more recent albums just didn't don't have the same musical depth of ''Music/ReasonableDoubt'' (his classic debut album), [[QualityByPopularVote no matter how popular they were]].are]].



* Music/SonataArctica had this once after [[NewSoundAlbum Unia]], and again after Stones Grow Her Name. It doesn't help that the band, which is known to have very poetic lyrics, made a single called [[OddNameOut Shitload of Money]] on the latter.

to:

* Music/SonataArctica had this once after [[NewSoundAlbum Unia]], ''[[NewSoundAlbum Unia]]'', and again after Stones ''Stones Grow Her Name.Name''. It doesn't help that the band, which is known to have very poetic lyrics, made a single called [[OddNameOut Shitload of Money]] on the latter.



* There seems to be quite a lot of animosity between the Music/AtTheGates fanbase: Namely, the fans of the 1995 melodic death metal album ''Slaughter of the Soul'' and the 1991 death metal album ''The Red in the Sky is Ours''. The death metal fans often deride [=SotS=] for "paving the way for a new era of awful metalcore bands".

to:

* There seems to be quite a lot of animosity between within the Music/AtTheGates fanbase: Namely, the fans of the 1995 melodic death metal album ''Slaughter of the Soul'' and the 1991 death metal album ''The Red in the Sky is Ours''. The death metal fans often deride [=SotS=] for "paving the way for a new era of awful metalcore bands".



* Drum & bugle corps. Mother of Mercy, drum & bugle corps. Old-school vs. really old school vs. 80s vs 90s versus modern, G bugles versus B flat brass, etc. - the issue most argued about seems to be amps and electronics in the pit. And of course, fans of the individual corps have been going at it since the beginning (lately, there seems to be considerable animosity between fans of the Blue Devils and fans of Carolina Crown).
** Drum Corps International: Is it an organization that encourages creativity and selflessly promotes the activity, or is it an elitist cartel who has turned drum corps from an all-inclusive youth activity with military roots to an over-expensive, artsy-fartsy haven for music and dance majors? The two main forums for drum corps, Drum Corps Planet (DCP) and Rec.Arts.Marching.Drumcorps (RAMD) have hosted thousands of [[FlameWar flame wars]] over this issue.
** Many corps directors are subject to this, with Cadets director George Hopkins being the biggest BaseBreaker. Is he a creative genius whose concepts and innovations (including the above-mentioned amplification and electronics) have taken drum corps in new and exciting directions, or have the changes he has brought forward resulted in drum corps being RuinedForever?



* Music/StatusQuo. Oh dear god, Status Quo. It's generally agreed that if you're a Quo fan, you either prefer the harder, heavier music from their "Frantic Four" heyday (i.e. ''Ma Kelly's Greasy Spoon'' to ''Blue For You''), or you favour all their music in general. The former camp is divided even further - whilst many people simply feel the earlier stuff is better, there is a section of the fanbase that feel Quo have betrayed their hard rock roots by experimenting with a poppier sound, and will refuse to enjoy anything post-'70s, up to and including the current lineup of the band. The rest don't seem to mind.
* Music/FrankZappa's entire career is made of broken bases. Granted, most Zappa fans like a majority of his music, but he changed his style so often and drastic each album- also due to [[RevolvingDoorBand musicians in his band frequently changing and leaving]] - that there are bound to be some albums that some of their fans will dislike. There are Zappa fans who prefer the original Mothers of Invention line-up (from ''Music/FreakOut'' until ''Music/WeaselsRippedMyFlesh''). Others only like Zappa's output from ''Music/OverNiteSensation'' until ''Music/SheikYerbouti'' for their rich orchestrated sound and incredible professional musicianship. Some fans dismiss this period because they like Zappa's late 1960s and early 1970s pure AvantGardeMusic output better than the heavy rock sound. Others only like his rock songs. Some people only enjoy Zappa's comedy novelty songs and have no interest in his GenreRoulette music. Others like Zappa as a musical innovator and could do without his BawdySong material. Some adore his guitar solos, while others think it just goes on for far too long. A major BrokenBase is ''Music/JoesGarage''. Some fans feel it's his last ''classic'' album before the 1980s set in and a long period of lesser to even bad albums began. Others claim ''Music/SheikYerbouti'' was his last classic album and see ''Joe's Garage'' as practically the ''start'' of Zappa's lesser period. In general most Zappa fans like his 1960s and 1970s output just fine, but his 1980s work (''Music/TinseltownRebellion'', ''Music/YouAreWhatYouIs'', ''Music/ShipArrivingTooLateToSaveADrowningWitch'', ''Music/TheManFromUtopia'', ''Music/ThemOrUs'', ''Music/ThingFish'' and ''Music/FrankZappaMeetsTheMothersOfPrevention'' in particular) is more polarizing. Many feel that Zappa's 1980s output was musically less colorful with an overreliance of singing in obnoxiously stupid voices about painfully unfunny subjects that probably were only funny to Zappa's own band. Many of his political songs from that era have now become very dated because they were so direct in their attacks to the [[MoralGuardians Moral Majority]], the UsefulNotes/RonaldReagan administration, the PMRC and televangelists like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and Jimmy Swaggart. The most polarizing records in Zappa's entire oeuvre are ''Music/TheManFromUtopia'' and ''Music/ThingFish'', which are both prime examples of all the typical problems of his 1980s work. "Thing-Fish" in particular is even worse, because it's a double album where Zappa just recycles songs from his older albums and has Ike Willis sing over it in a mock imitation of the Kingfish character from ''Radio/AmosNAndy''. Zappa's shift to Synclavier compositions has also both his supporters and haters, with people who feel it just sounds cold and devoid of humanity.

to:

* Music/StatusQuo. Oh dear god, Status Quo. It's generally agreed that if you're a Quo fan, you either prefer the harder, heavier music from their "Frantic Four" heyday (i.e. ''Ma Kelly's Greasy Spoon'' to ''Blue For You''), or you favour all their music in general. The former camp is divided even further - whilst many people simply feel the earlier stuff is better, there is a section of the fanbase that feel Quo have betrayed their hard rock roots by experimenting with a poppier sound, and will refuse to enjoy anything post-'70s, up to and including the current lineup of the band. The rest don't seem to mind.
* Music/FrankZappa's entire career is made of broken bases. Granted, most Zappa fans like a majority of his music, but he changed his style so often and drastic drastically with each album- album -- this was also due to [[RevolvingDoorBand musicians in his band frequently changing and leaving]] - -- that there are bound to be some albums that some of their his fans will dislike. dislike.\\\
There are those Zappa fans who prefer the original Mothers of Invention line-up (from ''Music/FreakOut'' until ''Music/WeaselsRippedMyFlesh''). Others only like Zappa's output from ''Music/OverNiteSensation'' until ''Music/SheikYerbouti'' for their rich rich, orchestrated sound and incredible professional musicianship. Some fans dismiss this period because they like Zappa's late 1960s and early 1970s pure AvantGardeMusic output better than the heavy rock sound. Others only like his rock songs. Some people only enjoy Zappa's comedy novelty songs and have no interest in his GenreRoulette music. Others like Zappa as a musical innovator and could do without his BawdySong material. Some adore his guitar solos, while others think it just goes they go on for far too long. long.\\\
A major BrokenBase base-breaker is ''Music/JoesGarage''. Some fans feel it's his last ''classic'' album before the 1980s set in and a long period of lesser to even bad outright terrible albums began. Others claim that ''Music/SheikYerbouti'' was his last classic album and see ''Joe's Garage'' as practically the ''start'' of Zappa's lesser period. In general general, most Zappa fans like his 1960s and 1970s output just fine, but his 1980s work (''Music/TinseltownRebellion'', ''Music/YouAreWhatYouIs'', ''Music/ShipArrivingTooLateToSaveADrowningWitch'', ''Music/TheManFromUtopia'', ''Music/ThemOrUs'', ''Music/ThingFish'' and ''Music/FrankZappaMeetsTheMothersOfPrevention'' in particular) is more polarizing. Many feel that Zappa's 1980s output was musically less colorful colorful, with an overreliance of over-reliance on singing in obnoxiously stupid voices about painfully unfunny subjects that probably were only funny to Zappa's own band. Many of his political songs from that era have now become very dated because they were so direct in their attacks to on the [[MoralGuardians Moral Majority]], the UsefulNotes/RonaldReagan administration, the PMRC PMRC, and televangelists like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and Jimmy Swaggart. \\\
The most polarizing records in Zappa's entire oeuvre are ''Music/TheManFromUtopia'' and ''Music/ThingFish'', which are both prime examples of all the typical problems of his 1980s work. "Thing-Fish" in particular is even worse, because it's a double album where Zappa just recycles songs from his older albums and has Ike Willis sing over it in a mock imitation of the Kingfish character from ''Radio/AmosNAndy''. \\\
Zappa's shift to Synclavier compositions has also both his has its supporters and haters, with people who feel it just sounds cold and devoid of humanity.



* For jazz fans, there's traditional jazz vs. jazz fusion.
* Listening to music via cloud services vs. listening to local copies of music. Fans of the former enjoy not having to worry about storage and being able to listen to their music on any device that can access their service of choice. Fans of the latter argue that local copies do not need an Internet connection to listen to and that cloud services come and go; after all, one can listen to [=MP3=] or FLAC copies of their music 30 years from now, while the service one currently uses might not exist anymore in 30 years.
* In the area of Norwegian folk music, Music/HardangerFiddle players are victims to this, and the broken base is actually OlderThanTheyThink. When one particular area in question has more than one capable fiddler (with or without legendary status), things can get ''nasty'' because the two fiddlers gather their own fans around them. When discussing which of them is most "genuine" or just the best performer, full on FlameWar ensues.
** A "change" in the mode of playing, or whether the fiddlers were "better" in the old days, or better nowadays, results in the same debates.
* The Doobie Brothers are split between two sounds- hard southern rock and soft rock. Their original material was fronted by Tom Johnson, though his health became poor shortly after the band became a success. Patrick Simmons briefly took over vocal duties, however, Michael [=McDonald]= was introduced as the new lead singer in 1976(he had previously played keyboards) to fulfill the band's obligation to record an album and their style changed heavily. The band would perform older material live in concert with a substitute singer filling Johnson's role, but [=McDonald's=] own style was vastly different. They would not return to their original signature style until 1988 when Tom Johnson would eventually return. Naturally, some refuse to even regard the [=McDonald=] era due to the vastly different style of music, though the band themselves haven't shied away from that era despite maintaining their more traditional hard rock style of music.

to:

* For jazz fans, there's traditional jazz vs. jazz fusion.
* Listening to music via cloud services vs. listening to local copies of music. Fans of the former enjoy not having to worry about storage and being able to listen to their music on any device that can access their service of choice. Fans of the latter argue that local copies do not need an Internet connection to listen to and that cloud services come and go; after all, one can listen to [=MP3=] or FLAC copies of their music 30 years from now, while the service one currently uses might not exist anymore in 30 years.
* In the area of Norwegian folk music, Music/HardangerFiddle players are victims to this, and the broken base is actually OlderThanTheyThink. When one particular area in question has more than one capable fiddler (with or without legendary status), things can get ''nasty'' because the two fiddlers gather their own fans around them. When discussing which of them is most "genuine" or just the best performer, full on FlameWar ensues.
** A "change" in the mode of playing, or whether the fiddlers were "better" in the old days, or better nowadays, results in the same debates.
* The Doobie Brothers are split between two sounds- sounds: hard southern rock and soft rock. Their original material was fronted by Tom Johnson, though his health became poor shortly after the band became a success. Patrick Simmons briefly took over vocal duties, however, Michael [=McDonald]= [=McDonald=] was introduced as the new lead singer in 1976(he 1976 (he had previously played keyboards) to fulfill the band's obligation to record an album and their style changed heavily. The band would perform older material live in concert with a substitute singer filling Johnson's role, but [=McDonald's=] [=McDonald=]'s own style was vastly different. They would not return to their original signature style until 1988 when Tom Johnson would eventually return. Naturally, some refuse to even regard the [=McDonald=] era due to the vastly different style of music, though the band themselves haven't shied away from that era despite maintaining their more traditional hard rock style of music.



* "What is [[HeavyMetal Metal]]?" is an extremely loaded question. Bands like Music/WithinTemptation and Music/{{Babymetal}} have come under fire for not being 'real' metal. Babymetal in particular has had an InternetBackdraft because their image goes so very against what people consider metal music.
* {{Trance}} has what is quite possibly the most fractured fanbase in ElectronicMusic. Arguments mainly center on what constitutes as [[NoTrueScotsman "true"]] trance (the weird and trippy psychedelic trance versus the euphoric and emotional uplifting trance, which is just one of many inner fandom rivalries), with the fandom continuing to schism more and more due to the sheer number of subgenres within the larger scene and the directions the genre has taken over the years, especially in the increasingly commercialized climate of TheNewTens ElectronicMusic scene.



* American listeners of a couple of ItaloDisco songs such as "Plastic Doll" by Dharma, "Not Love" by Trilogy, and "I Need Love" by Capricorn have argued over the best speed to play these songs. People from cities such as those in the east coast and notably UsefulNotes/{{Chicago}} enjoy listening at the slower but correct speed intended by the artists. People from southern UsefulNotes/{{California}} prefer the faster 45 rpm speed.
* Happens with classic rock too. Is classic rock just a radio format or a distinct style of its own? What should the cutoff year be? Are 90's (or even late 80's) rock allowed to be classics? Should so-and-so band be considered classic rock? (The latter debate is especially prominent with [[Music/GunsNRoses Guns N' Roses]], Music/{{Metallica}}, Music/{{Nirvana}}, and Music/PearlJam.)
** Same situation with classic HipHop. Anything pass 2000 on a classic hip-hop station is heavily contentious.



* ButcherBabies got criticism for the two lead singers performing topless with pasties. Others point out that it's an homage to performer Wendy O. Williams. But it's likely that most of their audience doesn't even know who that is.

to:

* ButcherBabies Butcher Babies got criticism for the two lead singers performing topless with pasties. Others point out that it's an homage to performer Wendy O. Williams. But it's likely that most of their audience doesn't even know who that is.
14th Nov '16 5:00:02 PM EllaMegablast
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Many popular bands suffer a [[BrokenBase fan division]] after the release of a [[NewSoundAlbum new album]]. Some get the same treatment with ''every'' album. Just about every other band/group/singer/rapper/composer who have altered their musical style over the years has had to learn the hard way that there's a distinct trade-off between artistic integrity and maintaining the fanbase. This trope is ''much'' OlderThanTheyThink.

to:

Many popular bands suffer a [[BrokenBase fan division]] after the release of a [[NewSoundAlbum new album]].NewSoundAlbum. Some get the same treatment with ''every'' album. Just about every other band/group/singer/rapper/composer who have has altered their musical style over the years has had to learn the hard way that there's a distinct trade-off between artistic integrity and maintaining the fanbase. This trope is ''much'' OlderThanTheyThink.



* In {{Indie}} or otherwise underground music, [[ItsPopularNowItSucks any artist who gains a measure of mainstream popularity will experience a wave of backlash from original fans]]. Mostly from fear that the artist(s) in question will change their style in order to become mainstream.
* Music/ArcadeFire are the kings of this. They somehow successfully break their base with every release they make:

to:

* In {{Indie}} or otherwise underground music, [[ItsPopularNowItSucks any artist who gains a measure of mainstream popularity will experience a wave of backlash from original fans]]. Mostly fans]], mostly from fear that the artist(s) in question will change their style in order to become mainstream.
* Music/ArcadeFire are the kings of this. They somehow successfully break their base with every release they make:



** Then, in 2010, when the released ''Music/The Suburbs'', the fanbase basically split yet again. This time into several sections. There are now people that have a certain combination of Music/ArcadeFire albums they like and dislike. This creates some pretty heated arguments between their fans.
* {{Music/AFI}} seem to have a solid divide between fans of their hardcore punk period of 1994-2000 and their goth rock influenced works from 2003 on with rather ugly flamewars raging to this day. Neither side seems to like [[NewSoundAlbum Crash Love]] much however.

to:

** Then, in 2010, when the they released ''Music/The Suburbs'', ''Music/TheSuburbs'', the fanbase basically split yet again. This time into several sections. There are now people that have a certain combination of Music/ArcadeFire Arcade Fire albums they like and dislike. This creates some pretty heated arguments between their fans.
* {{Music/AFI}} seem to have a solid divide between fans of their hardcore punk period of 1994-2000 and their goth rock influenced goth-influenced works from 2003 on on, with rather ugly flamewars raging to this day. Neither side seems to like [[NewSoundAlbum Crash Love]] much much, however.



* Music/TupacShakur fans usually fight over which album showcased the ''[[AlternateCharacterInterpretation real]]'' Tupac. The albums in question are "Me Against the World" VS. "All Eyez on Me". Proponents of the first claim that the album is better than AEOM because of its depth and dark, introspective approach, while claiming that AEOM is just a typical mainstream rap album people jumped on the bandwagon for.
* The Music/AvengedSevenfold fandom comes in about four camps:
** Those who listen primarily to metalcore/post-hardcore tend to gravitate towards the band's first two albums, Sounding the Seventh Trumpet and Waking the Fallen.
** Those who don't care much for metalcore/post-hardcore, but are fans of straightforward hard rock bordering on heavy metal would prefer the band's output from City of Evil and thereafter. Although, some may enjoy a handful of the less -core sounding songs from Waking the Fallen (in particular, Unholy Confessions). However, this group is divided further into two groups.
** Their album "Hail to the King" is not only the first album to be recorded without any input whatsoever from the late Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan, but also takes on a significantly different direction from the previous three albums (although probably not quite as drastically as City of Evil was from Waking the Fallen). According to lead singer M Shadows, the album can be described as "more blues rock-influenced and more like classic rock and classic metal in the vein of Music/BlackSabbath and Music/LedZeppelin". Quite naturally, this album would be even more disdained by those who prefer the band's STST/WTF-era style. But even a significant portion of those who have enjoyed the past three albums find the style to be too much of a departure for them.
** Last, but not least, there are those who enjoy the entire body of the band's output. Even if the band may have modified their style a few times, the "Avenged Sevenfold flavour" was a constant in everything they did.

to:

* Music/TupacShakur fans usually fight over which album showcased the ''[[AlternateCharacterInterpretation real]]'' Tupac. The albums in question are "Me Against the World" VS. "All Eyez on Me". Proponents of the first claim that the album is it's better than AEOM because of its depth and dark, introspective approach, while claiming that AEOM is just a typical mainstream rap album people jumped on the bandwagon for.
* The Music/AvengedSevenfold fandom comes in about four camps:
is broadly split thus:
** Those who listen primarily to metalcore/post-hardcore tend to gravitate towards the band's first two albums, Sounding ''Sounding the Seventh Trumpet Trumpet'' and Waking ''Waking the Fallen.
Fallen''.
** Those who don't care much for metalcore/post-hardcore, but who are fans of straightforward hard rock bordering on heavy metal metal, would prefer the band's output from City ''City of Evil and thereafter. Although, some may enjoy a handful of the less -core sounding songs from Waking the Fallen (in particular, Unholy Confessions). However, this group is divided further into two groups.
Evil'' onward.
** Their album On another note, "Hail to the King" is was not only the first album to be recorded without any input whatsoever from the late Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan, but also takes on a significantly different direction from the previous three albums (although probably not quite as drastically as City ''City of Evil was Evil'' did from Waking ''Waking the Fallen).Fallen''). According to lead singer M Shadows, the album can be described as "more blues rock-influenced and more like classic rock and classic metal in the vein of Music/BlackSabbath and Music/LedZeppelin". Quite naturally, this album would be even more disdained by those who prefer the band's STST/WTF-era style. But even a significant portion of those who have enjoyed the past three albums find the style to be too much of a departure for them.
** Last, but not least, there are those who enjoy the entire body of the band's output. Even if the band may have modified their style a few times, the "Avenged Sevenfold flavour" was a constant in everything they did.
them.



* Music/BlackFlag is perhaps the most polarizing example of a broken base for a punk band. First, there are camps of fans that prefer either the pre-1984 Flag (consisting of raw fast-paced punk) or the 1984-1986 Flag (which consisted of slow, repetitive avant-garde experiments in an attempt to push the band's sound forward). Then, there are fans divided by the singer (either Keith Morris, Dez Cadena, Ron Reyes {who was involuntarily credited by the band as "Chavo Pederast"}, and [[FaceOfTheBand Henry Rollins]])
* The rap group ''Music/BoneThugsNHarmony'' has such a varied and diverse style that they ended up creating a varied and diverse fanbase. This diverse fan base always ends up in heated flame wars over what direction the group should take musically. The debates (or arguments) range from style, subject matter and whether or not to have guest features. The group even has a problem maintaining the small but loyal Broken Base that they do have, due to the fact there are more fans of certain individual members than the actual group as a whole. There's also a very contentious debate regarding what caused the group to lose popularity. Some say it's because [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks their music changed]]. While others say it's because of [[LighterAndSofter changing trends in the Hip-Hop industry]], [[MusicIsPolitics and the music industry over all]]. Quite a few say all of the above.
** Then there's the departure of a certain member... who later returned...(well..uh..sort of). But the embittered division is still there. What added to the division is the fact that this also put more fuel to the fire because of the reason why he was ousted and the fact the group isn't quite the same without him. Though others would say he was on the decline due to his substance abuse issues, and his unprofessionalism when it comes to not showing up for video shoots and concerts. so his absence isn't really missed.
** There's the fact that the ''other'' EnsembleDarkhorse (Krayzie Bone) was asked to leave. Wish Bone left with him and things just kept going form bad to worse among the fans. They have also also returned. But layzie hung separately to promote his own ventures, while insisting he hasn't left the group.
*** ''The Art Of War'' album by far... (and to a lesser existent the Resurrection album)
* ''Music/{{Pantera}}'', especially when it comes to critics of Phil Anselmo and his supporters. The murder of Dimebag Darrell, the well-loved guitarist of the band at the hands of a fan of Anselmo, has made the situation [[IncrediblyLamePun fucking hostile]].
* Hip-Hop is divided between pure HipHop fans, AlternativeRap fans, GangstaRap fans, PoliticalRap fans, HardcoreHipHop fans, ConsciousHipHop fans vs. fans of overtly mainstream poppish "bling bling" styled "GlamRap", and arguably SwagRap[[note]]Swag Rap, fairly or not is often seen as no different than Glam rap, (there is some overlap though). Some don't even see it as rap, but another genre entirely[[/note]]. But to simplify it, it generally boils down to divisions mainly between the normally underground/gutter/gangsta/anti-establishment/grimy/Alternative/gritty/political and conscious hip hop heads and the fans of artists that rhymed about material wealth, capitalism and the like. The former groups don't get along that much either, but has some form of respect towards one another and tends to crosspolinate, and seem to be [[TeethClenchedTeamWork united againt the latter group of fans]]. Don't even get started on the regionalism though, we'll be here all day.
** The narrowing of the urban radio format, and song selection, and exclusivity (including music video blocks) has exacerbated this problem. As they tend to favor GlamRap type songs and videos because they are seen as "Safe". Which causes a lot of bitter resentment. So the argument isn't necessarily about whether or not SouljaBoy is real hip-hop, (Or alternativly StopHavingFunGuys), But about the marginalization of everything else in favor of SOLELY supporting rappers like SouljaBoy or generic club anthem rap songs.
** Controversially the root, heart, and soul of the hip-hop fan division appears to also have subtle shades of Classism in addition to regionalism. As The aforementioned urban sub-genres appeal to rap fans of 2 very different socioeconomic backgrounds (Albeit probably unintentionally). The rap music that deal with "urban, inner city issues" tend to appeal to middle and lower income blue collar fans, While The glamorous club oriented stuff appeals to upper middle class suburban fans. Even the hardcore rap music that has crime tales involving luxurious cars and houses tend to still appeal to the latter group of fans more so than the former group. There's also a huge dose of classicism involved as well.
** Each of these hip-hop sub-fanbases has its own splinter groups, and even at its simplest level, you actually have a gigantic seething mass of cliques: something along the lines of "Golden Age" purists (fans of late '80s/early '90s rap; typically East Coast with some token Ice Cube or Too $hort appreciation), indie/alternative (or the demi-pejorative "undie") rap fans who lean towards some of the more avant-garde acts like Madlib, POS and El-P, several strata of Southern rap fans pitting coke-rap boosters (often accused of being indie hipster kids) vs. snap/trap/crunk club-rap fans (see: Soulja Boy/"ringtone rap") vs. Dungeon Family (OutKast/Goodie Mob/et al), West Coast adherents (which can potentially be split into classic g-funk vs. hyphy arguments), the cooled yet still potentially volatile Jay-Z vs. Nas camps... and god help you if you actually like grime or dubstep or electro or some other (usually non-American) genre offshoot.
*** The non-American genre argument does go both ways though. In Britain and Germany in the Nineties, people who listened to a specific hip-hop subgenre called "Britcore" would not listen to any other forms of hip-hop and heavily deride them.
** Speaking of gangster rap, there's a debate going on about whether or not the genre is [[DeadHorseGenre dead]]. Fans of the first wave of gangsta rappers (the anti-authoritarian, anti-establishment, and politically conscious era) felt that it died along time ago. Other, more cynical hip-hop fans (usually indie/alt-rap fans) feels that the current rap is no different from the earlier form, despite the fact that its more LighterAndSofter.

to:

* Music/BlackFlag is perhaps the most polarizing example of a broken base for a punk band. First, there are camps of fans that prefer either the pre-1984 Flag (consisting of raw fast-paced punk) or the 1984-1986 Flag (which consisted of slow, repetitive avant-garde experiments in an attempt to push the band's sound forward). Then, there are fans divided by the singer (either Keith Morris, Dez Cadena, Ron Reyes {who was involuntarily credited by the band as "Chavo Pederast"}, and [[FaceOfTheBand Henry Rollins]])
Rollins]]).
* Music/BoneThugsNHarmony:
**
The rap group ''Music/BoneThugsNHarmony'' has such a varied and diverse style that they ended up creating a varied and diverse fanbase. This diverse fan base always ends up in heated flame wars over what direction the group should take musically. The debates (or arguments) range from style, style and subject matter and to whether or not to have guest features. The group even has a problem maintaining the small but loyal Broken Base BrokenBase that they do have, due to the fact there are more fans of certain individual members than the actual group as a whole. There's also a very contentious debate regarding what caused the group to lose popularity. Some say it's because [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks their music changed]]. While others Others say it's because of [[LighterAndSofter changing trends in the Hip-Hop industry]], not to mention [[MusicIsPolitics and the music industry over all]].overall]]. Quite a few say all of the above.
** Then there's the departure of a certain member... who later returned...(well..uh.. sort of).of. But the embittered division is still there. What added to the division is the fact that this This also put adds more fuel to the fire because of the reason why he was ousted and the fact the group isn't quite the same without him. Though others Others would say he was on the decline due to his substance abuse issues, issues and his unprofessionalism when it comes came to not showing up for video shoots and concerts. so his absence isn't really missed.
concerts.
** There's the fact that the ''other'' EnsembleDarkhorse (Krayzie Bone) was asked to leave. Wish Bone left with him and things just kept going form from bad to worse among the fans. They have also also returned. But layzie Layzie hung separately to promote his own ventures, while insisting he hasn't left the group.
***
group.
**
''The Art Of War'' album by far... (and to a lesser existent extent the Resurrection album)
album).
* ''Music/{{Pantera}}'', Music/{{Pantera}}, especially when it comes to critics of Phil Anselmo and his supporters. The murder of Dimebag Darrell, the well-loved guitarist of the band at the hands of a fan of Anselmo, has made the situation [[IncrediblyLamePun fucking hostile]].
* Hip-Hop is divided between Hip-Hop. Fasten your seatbelts, y'all.
** The main division seems to be thus:
pure HipHop fans, AlternativeRap fans, GangstaRap fans, PoliticalRap fans, HardcoreHipHop fans, and ConsciousHipHop fans vs. are pitted (or pit themselves) against fans of overtly mainstream poppish mainstream, pop-ish, "bling bling" styled "GlamRap", bling"-styled GlamRap, and arguably SwagRap[[note]]Swag Rap, fairly or not not, is often seen as no different than Glam rap, (there is some overlap though).rap. Some don't even see it as rap, but another genre entirely[[/note]]. But to simplify it, it generally boils down to divisions mainly between the normally underground/gutter/gangsta/anti-establishment/grimy/Alternative/gritty/political and conscious hip hop heads and the fans of artists that rhymed rhyme about material wealth, capitalism capitalist gain, and the like. The former groups don't get along that much either, but has have some form of respect towards one another and tends to crosspolinate, and cross-pollinate. They seem to be [[TeethClenchedTeamWork united againt against the latter group of fans]]. Don't even get started on the regionalism though, regionalism, though; we'll be here all day.
** The narrowing of the urban radio format, and song selection, and exclusivity (including music video blocks) has exacerbated this problem. As they Networks and stations tend to favor GlamRap type songs and videos because they are seen as "Safe". Which This causes a lot of bitter resentment. So the The argument isn't necessarily about whether or not SouljaBoy is real hip-hop, (Or alternativly StopHavingFunGuys), But but about the marginalization of everything else the genre has to offer in favor of SOLELY ''solely'' supporting rappers like SouljaBoy or generic club anthem rap songs.
** Controversially the root, heart, and soul of the The hip-hop fan division appears to also have subtle shades of Classism classism in addition to regionalism. As The regionalism, as the aforementioned urban sub-genres appeal to rap fans of 2 two very different socioeconomic backgrounds (Albeit (albeit probably unintentionally). The rap music Rap that deal deals with "urban, inner city issues" tend tends to appeal to middle middle- and lower lower- income blue collar blue-collar fans, While The while glamorous club oriented club-oriented stuff appeals to upper middle class middle-class suburban fans. Even the hardcore rap music that has crime tales involving luxurious cars and houses tend to still appeal to the latter group of fans more so than the former group. There's also a huge dose of classicism involved as well.
fans.
** Each of these hip-hop sub-fanbases has its have their own splinter groups, and even at its simplest level, you actually have a gigantic seething mass of cliques: something along the lines of "Golden Age" purists (fans of late '80s/early '90s rap; typically East Coast with some token Ice Cube or Too $hort appreciation), indie/alternative (or the demi-pejorative semi-pejorative "undie") rap fans who lean towards some of the more avant-garde acts like Madlib, POS and El-P, several strata of Southern rap fans pitting coke-rap boosters (often accused of being indie hipster kids) vs. snap/trap/crunk club-rap fans (see: Soulja Boy/"ringtone rap") vs. Dungeon Family (OutKast/Goodie Mob/et al), West Coast adherents (which can potentially be split into classic g-funk vs. hyphy arguments), the cooled yet still potentially volatile Jay-Z vs. Nas camps... and god help you if you actually like grime or dubstep or electro or some other (usually non-American) genre offshoot.
*** The non-American genre argument does go both ways ways, though. In Britain and Germany in the Nineties, people who listened to a specific hip-hop subgenre called "Britcore" would not listen to any other forms of hip-hop and heavily deride them.
** Speaking of gangster rap, there's a debate going on about whether or not the genre is [[DeadHorseGenre dead]]. Fans of the first wave of gangsta rappers (the anti-authoritarian, anti-establishment, and politically conscious era) felt that it died along time ago. Other, more cynical hip-hop fans (usually indie/alt-rap fans) feels that the current rap is no different from the earlier form, despite the fact that its more LighterAndSofter.



** Yet ''another'' point of contention within the HipHop community is whether or not the state of current Hip-Hop is natural progression or is it [[AstroTurf astro turfed]] thanks to ThePowersThatBe, ExecutiveMeddling and due to the fact that MusicIsPolitics?
*** To that end it gets more complicated if you believe the mainstream media and white America is the one that's driving hip-hop now instead of the inner city culture, blacks and Latinos. Some even believing young urban black culture is being marginalized, (or more ominously phased out) within HipHop culture.
*** Discussed [[http://www.spin.com/articles/lorde-royals-rap-radio-urban-macklemore-thrift-shop/?sailthru_position=5 in this Spin article]]. Basically people are saying hip hop is being gentrified

to:

** Yet ''another'' point of contention within the HipHop community is whether or not the state of current Hip-Hop is natural progression or is it [[AstroTurf astro turfed]] thanks to ThePowersThatBe, ExecutiveMeddling and due to the fact that MusicIsPolitics?
MusicIsPolitics.
*** To that end it gets more complicated if you believe the mainstream media and white America is the one that's driving hip-hop now instead of the inner city culture, blacks and Latinos. Some even believing believe young urban black culture is being marginalized, (or or, more ominously phased out) ominously, ''phased out'' within HipHop culture.
*** Discussed [[http://www.spin.com/articles/lorde-royals-rap-radio-urban-macklemore-thrift-shop/?sailthru_position=5 in this Spin article]]. Basically Basically, people are saying hip hop is being gentrifiedgentrified.



** When and where did TheGoldenAgeOfHipHop begins and ends. Some say it's around the late 80's to early to mid 90's. A few hardliners say it's just the early to mid 80's only. The latter is a small but VocalMinority.

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** When and where did TheGoldenAgeOfHipHop begins begin and ends. end? Some say it's around the late 80's to early to mid 90's. A few hardliners say it's just the early to mid 80's only. The Believers of the latter is constitute a small but VocalMinority.



* Even ''{{Music/They Might Be Giants}}'' were hit by this. Fans are divided over whether 1994's "John Henry" was one of their finest albums or their worst, and ''some'' refuse to listen to anything recorded since, because they think that the idea of a rock band with musical instruments is an affront. [[FanDumb All of the True Fans]] even went to far as to picket concerts promoting "John Henry".

to:

* Even ''{{Music/They {{Music/They Might Be Giants}}'' Giants}} were hit by this. Fans are divided over whether 1994's "John Henry" was one of their finest albums or their worst, and ''some'' refuse to listen to anything recorded since, because they think that the idea of a rock band with musical instruments is an affront. [[FanDumb All of the True Fans]] even went to far as to picket concerts promoting "John Henry".



* {{Music/Devo}} fans are split between when Devo "began to suck". Many say after [[Music/FreedomOfChoice "Freedom of Choice"]], some "New Traditionalists" or "Oh, No!", and even a few say "Duty Now for the Future". Most folks seem to agree, though, that "Shout", "Total DEVO", and "Smooth Noodle Maps" all suck, but "Something for Everybody" has generally been well-received.
** The perceived declining quality of Devo's later albums has been blamed by most (including the band itself) on [[ExecutiveMeddling interference from the label]]. (Devo's battles with Warner Bros. border on legendary.) During the production of "Something for Everybody" Devo did a massive online outreach to its fans, allowing them to preview and vote on which tracks would be included. This effort probably was responsible for the generally good reception of the album. [[MeaningfulName Something for Everybody]] indeed.
** Oh, then there's those curmudgeons who think everything after [[Music/QAreWeNotMenAWeAreDevo "Q: Are We Not Men?"]] is a load of junk with too much synthesizer.

to:

* {{Music/Devo}} fans are split between when Devo "began to suck". Many say after [[Music/FreedomOfChoice "Freedom of Choice"]], ''Music/FreedomOfChoice'', some "New Traditionalists" ''New Traditionalists'' or "Oh, No!", ''Oh, No!'', and even a few say "Duty ''Duty Now for the Future". Future''. Most folks seem to agree, though, that "Shout", "Total DEVO", ''Shout'', ''Total DEVO'', and "Smooth ''Smooth Noodle Maps" Maps'' all suck, but "Something ''Something for Everybody" Everybody'' has generally been well-received.
** The perceived declining quality of Devo's later albums has been blamed by most (including the band itself) on [[ExecutiveMeddling interference from the label]]. (Devo's battles with Warner Bros. border on legendary.) During the production of "Something ''Something for Everybody" Everybody'', Devo did a massive online outreach to its fans, allowing them to preview and vote on which tracks would be included. This effort probably was responsible for the generally good reception of the album. [[MeaningfulName Something for Everybody]] everybody]] indeed.
** Oh, then there's those curmudgeons who think everything after [[Music/QAreWeNotMenAWeAreDevo "Q: ''[[Music/QAreWeNotMenAWeAreDevo Q: Are We Not Men?"]] Men?]]'' is a load of junk with too much synthesizer.



* ''Music/{{Genesis}}'' have a fanbase generally split into three groups: Those who love the early Music/PeterGabriel-led albums and decry the later work pop sellout garbage while bashing Music/PhilCollins at every available opportunity, those who love the later Music/PhilCollins-led albums and dismiss the earlier work as pretentious nonsense, and those who love both eras (seeing Peter and Phil as equals) and credit keyboardist Music/TonyBanks as the true mastermind of the band.
** There's at least a fourth camp, who agree that Banks was the mastermind but think he went downhill at some point, with sub-debates over when that was (but certainly it had happened by ''Music/InvisibleTouch''). And that's just the beginning. There's also huge debates over the merits of individual albums, especially ''Music/TheLambLiesDownOnBroadway'', ''...And Then There Were Three'' and the one album with neither Gabriel nor Collins, ''...Calling All Stations...''. Not to mention debates, easily confused with but distinct from the Gabriel/Collins/Banks one, between fans of their more pop-oriented versus their more progressive material, and on and on ''ad nauseum''.
** Lots of other progressive or once-progressive bands have these too, including ''Music/{{Yes}}'', ''Music/KingCrimson'' and ''Music/{{Rush}}'' in particular, but Genesis is easily the best known. The mere mention of liking Music/PhilCollins on some Genesis and progressive-rock related fan websites can result in an immediate argument between fans.

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* ''Music/{{Genesis}}'' Music/{{Genesis}} have a fanbase generally split into three groups: Those those who love the early Music/PeterGabriel-led albums and decry the later work pop sellout garbage while bashing Music/PhilCollins at every available opportunity, opportunity; those who love the later Music/PhilCollins-led albums and dismiss the earlier work as pretentious nonsense, nonsense; and those who love both eras (seeing Peter and Phil as equals) and credit keyboardist Music/TonyBanks as the true mastermind of the band.
** There's at least a fourth camp, camp who agree that Banks was the mastermind but think he went downhill at some point, with sub-debates over when that was (but certainly it had happened by ''Music/InvisibleTouch''). And that's just the beginning. There's also huge debates over the merits of individual albums, especially ''Music/TheLambLiesDownOnBroadway'', ''...And Then There Were Three'' Three'', and the one album with neither Gabriel nor Collins, ''...Calling All Stations...''. Not to mention debates, easily confused with but distinct from the Gabriel/Collins/Banks one, between fans of their more pop-oriented versus their more progressive material, and on and on ''ad nauseum''.
** Lots of other progressive or once-progressive bands have these too, including ''Music/{{Yes}}'', ''Music/KingCrimson'' Music/{{Yes}}, Music/KingCrimson and ''Music/{{Rush}}'' Music/{{Rush}} in particular, but Genesis is easily the best known. The mere mention of liking Music/PhilCollins on some Genesis and progressive-rock related fan websites can result in an immediate argument between fans.



* ''Music/{{Metallica}}'', because they [[ImportantHaircut cut their hair]]!

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* ''Music/{{Metallica}}'', Music/{{Metallica}}, because they [[ImportantHaircut cut their hair]]!



*** There is also the argument of whether [[strike:[[FanNickname Smell the Glove]]]] [[Music/TheBlackAlbum]] was the first sell out album or ''Load'' was.

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*** There is also the argument of whether [[strike:[[FanNickname Smell the Glove]]]] [[Music/TheBlackAlbum]] was the first sell out sellout album or ''Load'' was.



** Subverted though with "One", which was Metallica's very first music video; though the band swore they would never make music videos during the mid-80s, the video for "One" is widely loved by the fan's fans and was the only song from ''[[Music/AndJusticeForAll...And Justice For All]]'' that ended up becoming a mainstay in the band's live shows.

to:

** Subverted though Averted with "One", which was Metallica's very first music video; though video. Though the band swore they would never make music videos during the mid-80s, the video for "One" is widely loved by the fan's fans and was the only song from ''[[Music/AndJusticeForAll...And Justice For All]]'' ''Music/AndJusticeForAll'' that ended up becoming a mainstay in the band's live shows.



* Speaking of ''Music/{{Megadeth}}'', they're a particularly interesting example of this. While most will agree that "Peace Sells... But Who's Buying?" and "Rust In Peace" are classics, opinions of their remaining albums tend to be a lot more divided:
** Some fans write off "Killing Is My Business... And Business Is Good" and "So Far, So Good, So What?" as drug-induced messes (although SFSGSW does contain the fan favorite "In My Darkest Hour").
** Their 90's material, especially, tends to be very divisive. Some fans won't listen to anything made post-RIP, some won't listen to anything made post-Countdown To Extinction, etc. While most agree that Megadeth's DorkAge began sometime during the 90's, there is a ridiculous amount of debate over when it actually began (although popular consensus agrees that 1999's "Risk" was a huge misfire for the band).
** And then we get into the issue of when in the 2000's the band actually made their big comeback. Was it with 2001's "The World Needs A Hero"? 2004's "The System Has Failed"? 2007's "United Abominations"? Did the band ''ever'' make a serious comeback? Just thinking about it could really [[DrivenToMadness drive you crazy]]!

to:

* Speaking of ''Music/{{Megadeth}}'', Music/{{Megadeth}}, they're a particularly interesting example of this. While most will agree that "Peace ''Peace Sells... But Who's Buying?" Buying?'' and "Rust ''Rust In Peace" Peace'' are classics, opinions of their remaining albums tend to be a lot more divided:
** Some fans write off "Killing ''Killing Is My Business... And Business Is Good" Good'' and "So ''So Far, So Good, So What?" What?'' as drug-induced messes (although SFSGSW does contain the fan favorite "In My Darkest Hour").
** Their 90's material, especially, tends to be very divisive. Some fans won't listen to anything made post-RIP, some won't listen to anything made post-Countdown post-''Countdown To Extinction, Extinction'', etc. While most agree that Megadeth's DorkAge began sometime during the 90's, there is a ridiculous amount of debate over when it actually began (although popular consensus agrees that 1999's "Risk" ''Risk'' was a huge misfire for the band).
** And then we get into the issue of when in the 2000's the band actually made their big comeback. Was it with 2001's "The ''The World Needs A Hero"? Hero''? 2004's "The ''The System Has Failed"? Failed''? 2007's "United Abominations"? ''United Abominations''? Did the band ''ever'' make a serious comeback? Just thinking about it could really [[DrivenToMadness drive you crazy]]!



* German indie rockers Music/{{Tocotronic}} started as a [[RuleOfCool sloppy]] underground [[CultClassic cult band]] with frontman Dirk von Lowtzow [[PerishingAltRockVoice embodying]] the [[TheSnarkKnight deadpan]] [[TheSlacker slacker]] much to the amusement of the Hamburg indie scene that was otherwise crowded with agitprop leftists and [[StrawNihilist dead-serious fatalist philosophers]] like their friends from ''Blumfeld''. ''Tocotronic'' changed their style towards professional recording and Lowtzow [[BadassBaritone stopped snarking]] in favor of becoming a [[TrueArtIsAngsty melancholic]] [[TheDandy dandy]] with [[TrueArtIsIncomprehensible abstract]] lyrics no one really understood. As their new sound was far more successful, old fans usually claim that they were [[ItsPopularNowItSucks better when they were snarking]], while younger fans prefer their more polished sound.
* Music/PanicAtTheDisco's first album was a unique, somewhat interconnected bunch of songs with obtuse but clever titles that bridged dance and rock genres, and had stories to them, with complex, often surreal lyrics. Their second album is somewhat Beatles-esque pop rock with no apparent connection other than style between the songs... and they dropped the exclamation point from their name. Guess what happened to their following? Yep! Instant Division, Just Add Second Album.

to:

* German indie rockers Music/{{Tocotronic}} started as a [[RuleOfCool sloppy]] underground [[CultClassic cult band]] with frontman Dirk von Lowtzow [[PerishingAltRockVoice embodying]] the [[TheSnarkKnight deadpan]] [[TheSlacker slacker]] slacker]], much to the amusement of the Hamburg indie scene that was otherwise crowded with agitprop leftists and [[StrawNihilist dead-serious fatalist philosophers]] like their friends from ''Blumfeld''. ''Tocotronic'' Blumfeld. Tocotronic changed their style towards professional recording and Lowtzow [[BadassBaritone stopped snarking]] in favor of becoming a [[TrueArtIsAngsty melancholic]] [[TheDandy dandy]] with [[TrueArtIsIncomprehensible abstract]] lyrics no one really understood. As their new sound was far more successful, old fans usually claim that they were [[ItsPopularNowItSucks better when they were snarking]], while younger fans prefer their more polished sound.
* Music/PanicAtTheDisco's first album was a unique, somewhat interconnected bunch of songs with obtuse but clever titles that bridged dance and rock genres, genres and had stories to them, with complex, often surreal lyrics. Their second album is somewhat Beatles-esque pop rock with no apparent connection other than style between the songs... and they dropped the exclamation point from their name. Guess what happened to their following? Yep! Instant Division, Just Add Second Album.



* Among fans of BlackMetal there is the ongoing war about the definition of the genre. Are ''Cradle of Filth'' Black Metal? Are ''Dimmu Borgir'' black metal? ''Immortal''? ''Music/{{Emperor}}''? Take your pick...
** Though this is common among many sub-genres of [[HeavyMetal Metal]] in general... So many bands take elements from multiple genres, there are often heated arguments over which genre a LOT of bands fit into... Other ones that are especially common though is Gothic Metal vs. Symphonic Metal, and there is often a lot of confusion with [[DeathMetal Death]] and Doom, and Folk and Viking.

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* Among fans of BlackMetal BlackMetal, there is the ongoing war about the definition of the genre. Are ''Cradle Cradle of Filth'' Black Metal? Are ''Dimmu Borgir'' Filth black metal? ''Immortal''? ''Music/{{Emperor}}''? Are Dimmu Borgir black metal? Immortal? Music/{{Emperor}}? Take your pick...
** Though this is common among many sub-genres of [[HeavyMetal Metal]] in general... general. So many bands take elements from multiple genres, there are often heated arguments over which genre a LOT of bands fit into...into. Other ones that are especially common though is Gothic Metal vs. Symphonic Metal, and there is often a lot of confusion with [[DeathMetal Death]] and Doom, and Folk and Viking.



* The question that is sure to stir up controversy: Who broke up ''Music/TheBeatles''?

to:

* The question that is sure to stir up controversy: Who broke up ''Music/TheBeatles''?Music/TheBeatles?



** You can tell a lot about a Beatles fan by learning whether they prefer the early work (the kind that could easily be done in concert pre-synthesizer) or the later, more experimental work.
*** But Beatles fans generally still like all their music, even if they prefer one era over another. So the Beatles are more of a [[SubvertedTrope subversion]] of the trope.
** There are many people in America who bought Music/{{Wings}} albums but will never admit it...

to:

** You can tell a lot about a Beatles fan by learning whether they prefer the early work (the kind that could easily be done in concert pre-synthesizer) or the later, more experimental work.
***
work. But Beatles fans generally still like all their music, even if they prefer one era over another. So In this respect, the Beatles are more of fanbase has a [[SubvertedTrope subversion]] of the trope.
startling [[AvertedTrope aversion]] to being broken.
** There are many people in America who bought Music/{{Wings}} albums but will never admit it...it.



** Apart from the remix albums, ''Linkin Park'' fans are divided over the change in Linkin Park's music style from electronica and nu-metal to ballads and soft rock. Some fans claim that the "Old Linkin Park" was the best and that they sold out while others argue that the "New sound" show their evolution as a band.
** Not to mention their increasing trend towards becoming ''Music/{{U2}}'', with more rock-driven albums than previous and less Shinoda.

to:

** Apart from the remix albums, ''Linkin Park'' fans are divided over the change in Linkin Park's music style from electronica and nu-metal to ballads and soft rock. Some fans claim that the "Old Linkin Park" was the best and that they sold out while others argue that the "New sound" show shows their evolution as a band.
** Not to mention their increasing trend towards becoming ''Music/{{U2}}'', Music/{{U2}}, with more rock-driven albums than previous and less Shinoda.



* The Music/{{Coldplay}} album ''Viva La Vida'' has split fans as well, between rejoicing at the [[NewSoundAlbum new sound]] and criticizing them for "trying to be the next ''Music/{{U2}}''".

to:

* The Music/{{Coldplay}} album ''Viva La Vida'' has split fans as well, between rejoicing at the [[NewSoundAlbum new sound]] and criticizing them for "trying to be the next ''Music/{{U2}}''".Music/{{U2}}".



** There's also a Broken Base over which post-Oasis band to follow: Liam's band Beady Eye or Noel's project Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds.
* ''Music/{{Slipknot}}'' [[FanNickname Maggots]] constantly fight over whether Mate.Feed.Kill.Repeat (which was their first album which featured only three of the current nine bandmembers) should be considered a ''real'' Slipknot album. That's before we even get to arguments over ''Vol. 3 The Subluminal Verses'' VS. ''Iowa'' debates.

to:

** There's also a Broken Base over which post-Oasis band to follow: Liam's band band, Beady Eye Eye, or Noel's project project, Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds.
* ''Music/{{Slipknot}}'' Music/{{Slipknot}} [[FanNickname Maggots]] constantly fight over whether Mate.''Mate.Feed.Kill.Repeat Repeat'' (which was their first album which featured only three of the current nine bandmembers) should be considered a ''real'' Slipknot album. That's before we even get to arguments over ''Vol. 3 The Subluminal Verses'' VS. ''Iowa'' debates.



** All [[DreamTeam supergroups]] seem to suffer from this to some extent. Go to any discussion about Stone Temple Pilots'' and mention the words "Velvet Revolver". [[InternetBackdraft It will get ugly]]. On the other hand, most Music/GunsNRoses fans seem to have a more universally positive opinion on Velvet Revolver. STP fans are also torn on Scott Weiland's solo project.
* While we're in Music/GunsNRoses, ''Chinese Democracy''.
** The debate is more of the likes that, if a band who's more than 20 years old and broke up abruptly, coming back without ''80% of the original lineup'' (a weird case of "The Face Minus The Band") and releasing an album stuck in DevelopmentHell during 14 years that was [[SoOkayItsAverage utterly irrelevant]] at its best, is worth of any kind of attention nowadays, due to their past-time status of "''Heavy Metal Saviors''".

to:

** All [[DreamTeam supergroups]] seem to suffer from this to some extent. Go to any discussion about Stone Temple Pilots'' Pilots and mention the words "Velvet Revolver".''Velvet Revolver''. [[InternetBackdraft It will get ugly]]. On the other hand, most Music/GunsNRoses fans seem to have a more universally positive opinion on Velvet Revolver.''Velvet Revolver''. STP fans are also torn on Scott Weiland's solo project.
* While we're in on the subject of Music/GunsNRoses, ''Chinese Democracy''.
** The debate is more of the likes that, if a band who's more than 20 years old and broke up abruptly, coming back without ''80% of the original lineup'' (a weird case of "The Face Minus The Band") and releasing an album stuck in DevelopmentHell during 14 years that was [[SoOkayItsAverage utterly irrelevant]] at its best, best is worth of any kind of attention nowadays, due to their past-time status of "''Heavy Metal Saviors''".



** And, on a secondary note, those who found the way she departed from the group distasteful and a thumb-or-other-appendage in the face disrespectful. This is less fandom/fandumb and more related to the (to the fans) suddenness however.
** Don't even think about saying that you like them both. Stating that you do only means that you're a new Nightwish fan, who doesn't know jack about them at all. Let's also not forget that stating you do only tends to create a flame war between Tarja fans and Annette fans so that they both vie for your support.
** The newer singer got more and more popular when people started to go their shows and realized that she was far more entertaining and nicer than Tarja was.
** The above statement may or may not be true. Some fans didn't like Anette's rendition of older songs (most notably ''Wishmaster'') and complained that her on-stage performance was too 'pop' for the band.
** After Anette has split from Nightwish (under not particularly good circumstances, either), the debate became more complicated, particularly considering whatever direction Tuomas planned on taking the band, or if there was much he can really do after ''Imaginaerum''.

to:

** And, on a secondary note, those who found the way she Tarja departed from the group distasteful and a thumb-or-other-appendage in the face disrespectful. This is less fandom/fandumb and more related to the (to the fans) suddenness however.
disrespectful.
** Don't even think about saying that you like them both. Stating that you do only means that you're a new Nightwish fan, fan who doesn't know jack about them at all. Let's also not forget that stating you do this only tends to create a flame war between Tarja fans and Annette fans.
** Some
fans so say that they both vie for your support.
** The newer singer got more and more popular when people started to go their shows and realized
think that she Annette was far more entertaining and nicer live than Tarja was.
** The above statement may or may not be true. Some
was. Then again, some fans didn't like Anette's rendition of older songs (most notably ''Wishmaster'') and complained that her on-stage performance was too 'pop' "pop" for the band.
** After Anette has Annette split from Nightwish (under not particularly good circumstances, either), the debate became more complicated, particularly considering whatever direction Tuomas planned on taking the band, or if there was much he can really do after ''Imaginaerum''.



* Gothenburg Metal band Music/ArchEnemy's fans arguing about their preference between the current vocalist, Angela Gossow, and former vocalist and founding member, Johan Liiva.
** consensus is: Gossow = good performer/bad singer; Liiva = good singer/bad performer. Even this is not raised very loudly because the backlash is just not worth it.

to:

* Gothenburg Metal band Music/ArchEnemy's fans arguing about their preference between the current vocalist, Angela Gossow, and former vocalist and founding member, Johan Liiva.
** consensus is:
Liiva. Consensus: Gossow = good performer/bad singer; Liiva = good singer/bad performer. Even this is not raised very loudly because the backlash is just not worth it.



* Electronic/electronic rock musician Celldweller started doing Dubstep and drum and bass in more recent works and on any song of his on YouTube there is arguing ''daily'' between members of the fanbase of how awesome/terrible it is, how it means/doesn't mean he sold out, how he should stick to his old sound or keep growing, how his style is changing for the better or [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks for the worse]] and how he does/doesn't have artistic integrity, though that last one isn't really arguable since he has always done whatever he wants and is independent, hence no [[ExecutiveMeddling music executives putting him up to anything]].
* This happened to Music/{{TLC}} later in their career. Instead of being solely contemporary R&B and Urban pop their music started to veer into Alt./Pop territory after their first 2 albums.
** Them trying to replace ''Lefteye'' definitely rubbed some of the fans the wrong way. Al though it was clearly L.A. Reid's doing the blame still fell in their laps though.
** And of course the whole which member is the best arguments. Some saying chili was the REAL singer in the group, while others think Left eye was the only good thing about the group, And other's that thought T-Boz is/was the whole group.
* Music/PinkFloyd - and how - although their heyday provides only one truly classic example. This was the [[CreatorBreakdown forced departure]] of songwriter/frontman Music/SydBarrett, which divided fans from the playground up into "he was the band" and "alright without him" camps. However, as the band got through the next few albums with increasing sales and audiences, the Syd camp became a minority.\\
The second historical split came around ''Music/TheDarkSideOfTheMoon'', with the shift away from their psychedelic roots towards the darker, edgier and more commercial. Many older fans [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks decried this]], complaining also of the live audiences, which were [[ItsPopularNowItSucks getting much larger, more mainstream and rowdier,]] and the larger and less intimate venues required to host them. [[note]]Not that they didnít have a point, especially where the largest gigs were concerned. The crowd surges could be scary, and the crowd control measures were often primitive and sometimes brutal. The bursting door and police action seen during the "In The Flesh?" concert sequence in the film version of ''Music/TheWall'' were all based on things that had happened on tours.[[/note]] On the other hand, few thought that the subsequent releases were actually ''bad'', and there werenít really two hostile camps, the new fans being generally oblivious to the older antis.\\
Perhaps hard to believe now, but Roger Watersís departure and attempted dissolution of the band caused hardly a ripple at the time. The bandmembers had [[TheFaceless retreated so far behind the imagery and stage effects]] that only a surprisingly small hard core of fans actually knew who Roger Waters ''was'', let alone that he had now quit, depriving Floyd of its main writer; or that he believed the band would/should now cease to exist as a result. It was only with Watersís failed attempts to stop them using the name, and subsequent exchanges in the music press, that word began to get out to the wider fanbase. [[note]]And it was only in 1990, with ''The Wall Ė Live in Berlin'' (i.e. Waters presenting and performing ''The Wall'' to a worldwide audience with anyone ''but'' Floyd) that the whole of the fandom really got the message.[[/note]]\\
With the benefit (?) of hindsight and vastly better-informed fans, the fanbase is split six ways to Sunday. Was Barrett or Waters the ''true'' genius? How does their psychedelic era compare to what came after? Are the Gilmour-led albums sell-out trash or nearly as good as the classic ones? Is ''Music/AtomHeartMother'' brilliant or complete rubbish ([[CreatorBacklash the band themselves mostly think the latter]])? Ditto ''Music/TheFinalCut'' [[note]]this one divides even the surviving members of the band - they being the ones who were on it)[[/note]]. And so on.

to:

* Electronic/electronic rock musician Celldweller started doing Dubstep dubstep and drum and & bass in more recent works and on works. Go to any song of his on YouTube there YouTube. Read the comments. There is arguing ''daily'' between members of the fanbase of how awesome/terrible it is, how it means/doesn't mean he sold out, how he should stick to his old sound or keep growing, how his style is changing for the better or [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks for the worse]] and how he does/doesn't have artistic integrity, though that last one isn't really arguable since he has always done whatever he wants and is independent, hence no [[ExecutiveMeddling music executives putting him up to anything]].
integrity.
* This happened to Music/{{TLC}} later in their career. Instead of being solely contemporary R&B and Urban pop their music started to veer into Alt./Pop territory after their first 2 albums.\n** Them trying to replace ''Lefteye'' definitely rubbed some of the fans the wrong way. Al though Although it was clearly L.A. Reid's doing doing, the blame still fell in their laps though.
laps.
** And of course course, there's" the whole which member is the best arguments. best" argument. Some saying chili say Chili was the REAL singer in the group, while others think Left eye Eye was the only good thing about the group, And other's that group. Others thought T-Boz is/was the whole group.
* Music/PinkFloyd - and how ''how'' - although their heyday provides only one truly classic example. This was the [[CreatorBreakdown forced departure]] of songwriter/frontman Music/SydBarrett, which divided fans from the playground up into "he was the band" and "alright without him" camps. However, as the band got through the next few albums with increasing sales and audiences, the Syd camp became a minority.\\
The second historical split came around ''Music/TheDarkSideOfTheMoon'', with the shift away from their psychedelic roots towards the a darker, edgier and more commercial.commercial sound. Many older fans [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks decried this]], complaining also of the live audiences, which were [[ItsPopularNowItSucks getting much larger, more mainstream and rowdier,]] and the larger and less intimate venues required to host them. [[note]]Not that they didnít have a point, especially where the largest gigs were concerned. The crowd surges could be scary, and the crowd control measures were often primitive and sometimes brutal. The bursting door and police action seen during the "In The Flesh?" concert sequence in the film version of ''Music/TheWall'' were all based on things that had happened on tours.[[/note]] On the other hand, few thought that the subsequent releases were actually ''bad'', and there werenít really two hostile camps, the new fans being generally oblivious to the older antis.\\
Perhaps \\
It might be
hard to believe now, but Roger Watersís departure and attempted dissolution of the band caused hardly a ripple at the time. The bandmembers had [[TheFaceless retreated so far behind the imagery and stage effects]] that only a surprisingly small hard core of fans actually knew who Roger Waters ''was'', let alone that he had now quit, depriving Floyd of its main writer; or that he believed the band would/should now cease to exist as a result. It was only with Watersís failed attempts to stop them using the name, and subsequent exchanges in the music press, that word began to get out to the wider fanbase. [[note]]And it was only in 1990, with ''The Wall Ė Live in Berlin'' (i.e. Waters presenting and performing ''The Wall'' to a worldwide audience with anyone ''but'' Floyd) that the whole of the fandom really got the message.[[/note]]\\
\\
With the benefit (?) of hindsight and vastly better-informed fans, the fanbase is split six ways to Sunday. Was Barrett or Waters the ''true'' genius? How does their psychedelic era compare to what came after? Are the Gilmour-led albums sell-out trash or nearly as good as the classic ones? Is ''Music/AtomHeartMother'' brilliant or complete rubbish ([[CreatorBacklash the band themselves mostly think the latter]])? Ditto ''Music/TheFinalCut'' [[note]]this ''Music/TheFinalCut''[[note]]this one divides even the surviving members of the band - they being the ones who were on it)[[/note]]. And so on.



** Heh. Does anyone bother debating whether (or ''how'') they should have followed Syd's desired vision of keeping to smallish venues (like the UFO club) and never performing on TV (possibly stopping him from going insane as a result)? Anyone?



** They also gradually moved away from their horrorcore Occult themed sound over the years toward a more generic hardcore gangsta rap sound (Their original name was ''Triple 6 mafia''... get it?). And after that moved to a more mainstream hardcore act. These three shifts in style have also really put a wedge in their base.

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** They also gradually moved away from their horrorcore Occult themed occult-themed sound over the years toward a more generic hardcore gangsta rap sound (Their original name was ''Triple 6 mafia''... get it?). And after that After that, they moved to a more mainstream hardcore act. These three shifts in style have also really put a wedge in their base.



* Music/MichaelJackson's fanbase went through this on ''every'' post-''Music/{{Thriller}}'' record. Their are some who said that his last good album was ''Music/{{Bad}}'', whereas others say it was ''Music/{{Dangerous}}''. Then there are who love ''Music/HistoryPastPresentAndFutureBookI'' for it being more personal and its dark overtone; ''Music/{{Invincible}}'' gets a lot of hate from some fan for not using real instruments, while others liked the more urban sound and thought it was Michael going back to his roots.
** There are also some fans who dislike the way Michael sung certain albums. Some liked the more smooth vocals he used through ''Music/OffTheWall'' to ''Music/{{Bad}}'' and dislike the more rougher vocals he used in his later years. There is also a strange divide between producers and who the real genius was.
** Quite some fans of Jackson prefer his earlier stuff, which is closer to {{Soul}} and {{Funk}} and feel that after ''Music/{{Thriller}}'' he never quite reached the same heights. Some even want to base this on his skin color, causing a divide between fans who feel Michael was better when he was black.
* ''En Vogue'' went through this with their second album. Especially when their rock influenced ''Free Your Mind'' song became uber popular. And predictably the term "Sell Outs" began swirling around.

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* Music/MichaelJackson's fanbase went through this on ''every'' post-''Music/{{Thriller}}'' record. Their are some who said that his last good album was ''Music/{{Bad}}'', whereas others say it was ''Music/{{Dangerous}}''. Then there are who love ''Music/HistoryPastPresentAndFutureBookI'' for it being more personal and for its dark overtone; overtones; ''Music/{{Invincible}}'' gets a lot of hate from some fan for not using real instruments, while others liked the more urban sound and thought it was Michael going back to his roots.
** There are also some fans who dislike the way Michael sung sang on certain albums. Some liked the more smooth smoother vocals he used through from ''Music/OffTheWall'' to ''Music/{{Bad}}'' and dislike the more rougher vocals he used in his later years. There is also a strange divide between producers and who the real genius was.
** Quite some a few fans of Jackson prefer his earlier stuff, which is closer to {{Soul}} and {{Funk}} {{Funk}}, and feel that after ''Music/{{Thriller}}'' he never quite reached the same heights. Some even want to base this on his skin color, causing a divide between fans who feel Michael was better when he was black.
* ''En Vogue'' went through this with their second album. Especially album, especially when their rock influenced ''Free Your Mind'' song became uber popular. And predictably Predictably, the term "Sell Outs" began swirling around.



* Music/MariahCarey fans (and critics) went through this post ''Music Box'' album. Either Daydream or Butterfly were her last good album, or her first bad album. Butterfly gets shit as it was the first album to move towards a more "urban" (or the pejorative "ghetto") sound as well as featured Mariah becoming way more stripper-iffic. However, many fans of Butterfly will argue that at least it still SOUNDED like a Mariah Carey album and that it was the sequel Rainbow that had Mariah going off the rails with constant rap cameos and even more overt stripper-iffic revamp of her image. Either way, she's never been able to bring the bases back together.
** It should be noted that ''Butterfly'' was the first album where she ''fully'' conformed to her urban sound thus picking up a [[NewbieBoom new young urban fanbase]] whom might not have been interested in her music beforehand. When she stopped making Adult Contemporary power ballads that's when the Base started to break. Plus there was the fact that she now garnered a new urban fanbase. Because of the latter, the criticism of her post-''Music Box'' albums tend to veer into UnfortunateImplications territory.
** It runs much much deeper than this. Most of her fans seem to agree that among her best work is Daydream. However, after that, it divides quite heavily. Some people like the more pop sound that was found in Music Box, and in her debut, even though Pop during her debut was heavily influenced by r&b and her second album is total r&b. However, Daydream saw her start to incorporate more of a current sound into her work, against the wishes of her [[AbusiveBoyfriend ex-husband]]. She then continued on this route with Butterfly, picking up new people that like her more soulful sound as other people liked Music Box and the standard pop ballads. The people who love the AC ballads complain that Mariah has lost her mind and idea on what's good music, but fans of her R&B leaning stuff state she just sounds bored on her album Music Box, which, by the way, [[AuthorDetract is an album Mariah Carey reportedly does not like]], which seems to always be the main argument. The Emancipation of Mimi saw the bases started to getting back together, because it was compared favorably to both her old work and new work, a la Daydream, only to split again when she went heavy on the current urban trends in E=mc2. It should also be noted most of her pop work was created while she was under the control of a very mentally abusive ex-husband, and, as a result, criticisms on how her husband made her career on top of the urban hate ''really'' veer towards UnfortunateImplications. There are also people that take a third option and like everything but Music Box, save for a few tracks, which earns the ire from her pop lovers.
** Ironically, it should be noted that critics, as a whole, started to ''love'' Mariah Carey after she ditched the Power Ballad sound because she started to sound consistent and more soulful. Music Box is even worse received than Glitter, in terms of general critic approval goes. Daydream was a powerhouse in every way in the 1996, and her critical lover peaked around Butterfly before reaching another peak with E=MC2, and her albums have been pretty well received since then. Though no one would ever guess it, Mariah Carey's work, to her fans, is SeriousBusiness.
* Music/{{Pink}} was called a sell out after her first album. She switched from urban R&B to pop/rock on her ''mizzunderstood'' album. This seemed to confuse her since she thought she was being more true to her self on the second album. Her first album arguably could be a case of MisaimedFandom, or PeripheryDemographic. Or bad [[MisaimedMarketing marketing]] on her record label's part. (likely the latter)

to:

* Music/MariahCarey fans Music/MariahCarey:
** Fans
(and critics) went through this post ''Music Box'' album. post-''Music Box''. Either Daydream ''Daydream'' or Butterfly were ''Butterfly'' was her last good album, album or her first bad album. Butterfly ''Butterfly'' gets shit as it was the first album to move towards a more "urban" (or the pejorative "ghetto") sound as well as featured "ghetto," if you're not a fan) sound; Mariah becoming way also became much, much more stripper-iffic. {{Stripperiffic}}. However, many fans of Butterfly ''Butterfly'' will argue that at least it still SOUNDED ''sounded'' like a Mariah Carey album album, and that it was the sequel Rainbow sequel, ''Rainbow'', that had Mariah going off the rails with constant rap cameos and even more overt stripper-iffic revamp of her image. sexualization. Either way, she's never been able to bring the bases base back together.
** *** It should be noted that ''Butterfly'' was the first album where she ''fully'' conformed to her urban sound sound, thus picking up a [[NewbieBoom new young urban fanbase]] whom who might not have been interested in her music beforehand. When she stopped making Adult Contemporary power ballads that's when ballads, the Base started to break. Plus there was the fact that she now garnered a new urban fanbase.break. Because of the latter, the criticism of her post-''Music Box'' albums tend to veer into UnfortunateImplications territory.
** It runs much much deeper than this. Most of her fans seem to agree that among her best work is Daydream.''Daydream'', or that it's at least up there. However, after that, it divides quite heavily. Some people like the more pop poppier sound that was found in Music Box, ''Music Box'' and in her debut, even though Pop during her debut as it was heavily influenced by r&b and her second album is total r&b. R&B. However, Daydream ''Daydream'' saw her start to incorporate more of a current sound into her work, against the wishes of her [[AbusiveBoyfriend ex-husband]]. She then continued on this route with Butterfly, ''Butterfly'', picking up new people fans that like liked her more soulful sound as other people liked Music Box and the standard pop ballads. sound. The people who love loved the AC ballads complain complained that Mariah has had lost her mind and idea on what's good music, mind, but fans of her R&B leaning stuff state stated she just sounds bored on her album Music Box, which, by the way, [[AuthorDetract is an album ''Music Box'', which [[WordOfGod Mariah Carey reportedly does not like]], which seems to always be the main argument. The like]]. ''The Emancipation of Mimi Mimi'' saw the bases started starting to getting get back together, together because it was compared favorably to both her old work and new work, a la Daydream, only to everything she had done before. Sadly, there was another split again when she went heavy on the current urban trends in E=mc2. It should also be noted most of her pop work was created while she was under the control of a very mentally abusive ex-husband, and, as a result, criticisms on how her husband made her career on top of the urban hate ''really'' veer towards UnfortunateImplications. There are also people that take a third option and like everything but Music Box, save for a few tracks, which earns the ire from her pop lovers.''E=mc2''.
*** It should also be noted most of her pop work was created while she was under the control of a very mentally abusive ex-husband, and, as a result, criticisms on how her husband made her career on top of the urban hate ''really'' veer towards UnfortunateImplications. There are also people that take a third option and like everything but ''Music Box'', save for a few tracks, which earns ire from her pop lovers.
** Ironically, it should be noted that critics, critics as a whole, whole started to ''love'' Mariah Carey after she ditched the Power Ballad PowerBallad sound because she started to sound consistent and more soulful. Music Box is ''Music Box'' was even worse more badly received than Glitter, ''Glitter'' in terms of general critic approval goes. Daydream critical approval. ''Daydream'' was a powerhouse in every way in the 1996, powerhouse, and her critical lover love peaked around Butterfly ''Butterfly'' before reaching another peak with E=MC2, ''E=MC2'', and her albums have been pretty well received since then. Though no one would ever guess it, Mariah Carey's work, to her fans, is SeriousBusiness.
* Music/{{Pink}} was called a sell out sellout after her first album. She switched from urban R&B to pop/rock on her ''mizzunderstood'' album. This seemed to confuse her since she thought she was being more true to her self on the second album. Her first album arguably could be a case of MisaimedFandom, or PeripheryDemographic. Or bad [[MisaimedMarketing marketing]] on her record label's part. (likely the latter)



** Songs like "Hello Kitty" and "Girlfriend" sound completely different from her older styles. Fans are torn on whether her more pop oriented songs are treacherous or enjoyable.
* Music/KellyClarkson's ''My December''. It's either a dark depressing album that's not radio friendly, or it's a great album ''because'' it's dark and not radio friendly.
* The Norwegian AOR band TNT have been victims of this in on-off spans. First when Firefly came out in 1997, the fandom was torn between accepting and abandoning the change. Then, when Tony Harnell, the band's most liked singer, left in 2006, and was replaced by British singer Tony Mills, FanDumb erupted like you wouldn't believe, and even more so when The New Territory came out in 2007. It was a largely LoveItOrHateIt album, but Atlantis is much better received.

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** Songs like "Hello Kitty" and "Girlfriend" sound completely different from her older styles. Fans are torn on whether her more pop oriented pop-oriented songs are treacherous or enjoyable.
* Music/KellyClarkson's ''My December''. It's either a dark dark, depressing album that's not radio friendly, or it's a great album ''because'' it's dark and not radio friendly.
* The Norwegian AOR band TNT have been victims of this in on-off spans. First when Firefly spats. When ''Firefly'' came out in 1997, the fandom was torn between accepting and abandoning rejecting the change. Then, when Tony Harnell, the band's most liked singer, left in 2006, and was replaced by British singer Tony Mills, FanDumb erupted like you wouldn't believe, and even more so when The ''The New Territory Territory'' came out in 2007. It was a largely LoveItOrHateIt album, but Atlantis is ''Atlantis'' was much better received.



* {{Opera}} vs. Symphony was a popular heated topic in the 1800s.

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* {{Opera}} vs. Symphony was a popular heated (and heated) topic in the 1800s.



** Before the late romantic era, symphonies were primarily written for aristocracy or wealthy patrons of some kind. On the other hand, operas, while often viewed by the wealthy, were also popular among the middle-class. It was not rare for people to gamble at the opera, or even bring prostitutes into the balconies. Traditional orchestral music (like symphonies) had more of an air of austerity, which helps to explain some of the divisiveness.

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** Before the late romantic Romantic era, symphonies were primarily written for the aristocracy or wealthy patrons of some kind. On the other hand, operas, while often viewed by the wealthy, were also popular among the middle-class. It was not rare for people to gamble at the opera, or even bring prostitutes into the balconies. Traditional orchestral music (like symphonies) had more of an air of austerity, which helps to explain some of the divisiveness.



** On even more fundamental levels; Is translating Operas into other languages a brilliant move to make the material more accessible to people who would otherwise be put off the art form, or an inexcusable mangling of the material which places far too much pressure on the singers? This one has petered off in the last decade or so, with the subtitling machine considered an acceptable middle ground by all but the die-hards.
** There is also the question of whether spoken recitatives are acceptable, i.e. is it OK to save the singing for the arias and other important bits, and just say all the dialogue inbetween, or does that dialogue have to be sung too?
* With instruments that have a history of good repertoire extending back to the baroque or classical period (e.g. piano, organ, violin, cello, flute, guitar) there's a division between those players who embrace contemporary music, and those who prefer the older stuff - and these debates can get pretty heated. Instruments that have only developed a good solo repertoire in the past 100 years - ex. saxophone, percussion, tuba - have less division on this matter because their players have no choice but to play the newer stuff.

to:

** On even more fundamental levels; Is levels: is translating Operas operas into other languages a brilliant move to make the material more accessible to people who would otherwise be put off the art form, or an inexcusable mangling of the material which places far too much pressure on the singers? This one has petered off in the last decade or so, with the subtitling surtitling machine considered an acceptable middle ground by all but the die-hards.
** There is also the question of whether spoken recitatives are acceptable, i.e. is it OK to save the singing for the arias and other important bits, and just say all the dialogue inbetween, in between, or does that dialogue have to be sung too?
* With instruments that have a history of good repertoire extending back to the baroque or classical period (e.g. piano, organ, violin, cello, flute, guitar) guitar), there's a division between those players who embrace contemporary music, and those who prefer the older stuff - and these debates can get pretty heated. Instruments that have only developed a good solo repertoire in the past 100 years - ex. saxophone, percussion, tuba - have less division on this matter because their players have no choice but to play the newer stuff.



* Music/NoDoubt's ''Rock Steady'' album, Most critics loved it. But the hardcore fans either had mixed feeling, or out right despised it. While other fans think it was the best ND album in years.
* Music/DestinysChild after the other 2 original members was unceremoniously booted. Not to mention the group of fans who thought they were trying too hard to cross over. There is also a group of fans that felt Kelly Rowland was clearly the better singer whom had to play second fiddle to Beyonce Knowles, Who they thought had a special [[ButNotTooBlack "advantage"]]

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* Music/NoDoubt's ''Rock Steady'' album, album induced this. Most critics loved it. But it but the hardcore fans either had mixed feeling, feelings, or out right outright despised it. While other Other fans think thought it was the best ND album in years.
* Music/DestinysChild fell prey to this phenomenon after the other 2 two original members was were unceremoniously booted. Not This is not to mention the group of fans who thought they were trying too hard to cross over. There is also a group of fans that felt Kelly Rowland was clearly the better singer whom had to play second fiddle to Beyonce Beyoncé Knowles, Who who they thought had a special [[ButNotTooBlack "advantage"]]"advantage"]].



* Music/DreamTheater. Older music (''Images and Words'', ''Awake'') vs newer music (''Train of Thought, ''Systematic Chaos''), Kevin Moore vs. Derek Sherinan vs. Jordan Rudess, too much keyboard vs. not enough keyboard, music is too heavy vs. music is too pop-like, who's the best lyricist?, songs are [[EpicRocking too long]], songs are too short...just about anything, really.

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* Music/DreamTheater. Older music (''Images and Words'', ''Awake'') vs newer music (''Train of Thought, ''Systematic Chaos''), Kevin Moore vs. Derek Sherinan vs. Jordan Rudess, too much keyboard vs. not enough keyboard, music is too heavy vs. music is too pop-like, poppy, who's the best lyricist?, songs are [[EpicRocking too long]], songs are too short...short... just about anything, really.



* Music/IgorStravinsky is perhaps the all-time example of a composer with a fractured, factionalized fanbase. After making his initial fame by applying impressionist harmonies to Slavic melody and rhythm with such works as [[Theatre/TheFirebird "The Firebird"]] and "Petrushka", Stravinsky's brutal, primitivist ballet [[Theatre/TheRiteOfSpring "The Rite of Spring"]] occasioned a riot at its premiere in Paris in 1913 as audience members who hated the work clashed with others who found it one of the most exciting things they'd ever heard. (Apparently, Stravinsky wasn't too happy by this; he left the concert in a taxi, exclaiming that he'd never been so angry.) Unfortunately for fans of the "Rite", Stravinsky would compose only a few more works in this vein before turning to a cooler, more controlled and intellectual neoclassical style in the 1920's. The fans of the neoclassical Stravinsky held him up as a proponent of tonality in opposition to the atonal style of Music/ArnoldSchoenberg, Stravinsky's contemporary and rival best known for his invention of dodecaphonic (or "twelve-tone") music. After Schoenberg's death in 1951, Stravinsky proceeded to confound his neoclassical fans by turning to Schoenbergian dodecaphony himself.
* No love (or hate) for Music/AliceInChains yet? The flamewars on youtube over Layne's death never die down. Not to even mention William [=DuVall=]; entire cities have been warmed by the flames stemming from just one claim that he's better than Layne.
* Music/{{REM}} People can go on for hours over whether ''Music/AutomaticForThePeople'' is a mature, deep, emotional masterpiece or overproduced pop schlock, a glorified Michael Stipe solo record that showcases the band as a shadow for their former selves. Just say the words "Everybody Hurts" and watch the fun begin. The far less famous ''Up'' can inspire similar reactions.

to:

* Music/IgorStravinsky is perhaps the all-time example of a composer with a fractured, factionalized fanbase. After making his initial fame by applying impressionist harmonies to Slavic melody and rhythm with such works as [[Theatre/TheFirebird "The Firebird"]] and "Petrushka", Stravinsky's brutal, primitivist ballet [[Theatre/TheRiteOfSpring "The Rite of Spring"]] occasioned incited a riot at its premiere in Paris in 1913 as audience members who hated the work clashed with others who found it one of the most exciting things they'd ever heard. (Apparently, Stravinsky wasn't too happy by with this; he left the concert in a taxi, exclaiming that he'd never been so angry.) Unfortunately for fans of the "Rite", Stravinsky would compose only a few more works in this vein before turning to a cooler, more controlled and intellectual neoclassical style in the 1920's. The fans of the neoclassical Stravinsky held him up as a proponent of tonality in opposition to the atonal style of Music/ArnoldSchoenberg, Stravinsky's contemporary and rival best known for his invention of dodecaphonic (or "twelve-tone") music. After Schoenberg's death in 1951, Stravinsky proceeded to confound his neoclassical fans by turning to Schoenbergian dodecaphony himself.
* No love (or hate) for Music/AliceInChains yet? The flamewars on youtube Youtube over Layne's death never die down. Not to even mention William [=DuVall=]; entire cities have been warmed by the flames stemming from just one claim that he's better than Layne.
* Music/{{REM}} Music/{{REM}}. People can go on for hours over whether ''Music/AutomaticForThePeople'' is a mature, deep, emotional masterpiece or overproduced pop schlock, a glorified Michael Stipe solo record that showcases the band as a shadow for their former selves. Just say the words "Everybody Hurts" and watch the fun begin. The far less famous ''Up'' can inspire similar reactions.



* Anything Music/IceCube did after ''The Predator'' (Or ''Lethal Injection'' depending on who you ask) tends to divide fans. ''Lethal Injection'' specifically is polarizing. it was a commercial hit, however it was heavily criticized for what many saw as Cube's pandering to a crossover audience, and toning down the hardcore socio-political content found on his earlier efforts. Others saw this as unfair, as they thought it was still vintage gritty Cube but with G-funk productions. The albums standing has [[VindicatedByHistory increased over time]] though once people realized that it wasn't a huge departure as first thought..
* Like wise with poor Nas. After ''Illmatic'' virtually every album he made afterwards polarized his base. ''Stillmatic'' was able to please most of the base....but not really.
* Music/JanetJackson's ''Velvet Rope'' album. Critics loved it, most fans loved it, but others were alienated by it's darker tone. There's also the debate on whether or not her ''Janet.'' album is a worthy successor to ''Rhythm Nation'', whereas others think fans need to suck it up and accept she changed with the times, and that they should let the 80's go.

to:

* Anything Music/IceCube did after ''The Predator'' (Or (or ''Lethal Injection'' depending on who you ask) tends to divide fans. ''Lethal Injection'' specifically is polarizing. it It was a commercial hit, however but it was heavily criticized for what many saw as Cube's pandering to a crossover audience, audience and toning down the hardcore socio-political content found on his earlier efforts. Others saw this as unfair, as they thought it was still vintage gritty Cube but with G-funk productions. The albums album's standing has [[VindicatedByHistory increased over time]] time]], though once people realized that it wasn't a huge departure as was first thought..
thought.
* Like wise Likewise with poor Nas. After ''Illmatic'' ''Illmatic'', virtually every album he made afterwards polarized his base. ''Stillmatic'' was able to please most of almost sealed the base....but not really.
divide... almost.
* Music/JanetJackson's ''Velvet Rope'' album. Critics loved it, and most fans loved it, but others were alienated by it's its darker tone. There's also the debate on whether or not her ''Janet.'' album is a worthy successor to ''Rhythm Nation'', whereas others think fans need to suck it up and accept she changed with the times, and that they should let the 80's go.



* Music/ToriAmos' fanbase started to slowly divide with ''To Venus and Back'', when the much hyped B-Side album was dropped for new material, done mainly so Tori could advance one step closer to get out of her contract with Atlantic Records, after being told point blank by the label that they weren't going to promote her work anymore. Some consider TVAB to be Tori's last good album, as her cover album (again done to move her closer to completing her contract) ''Strange Little Girls'' was widely panned. ''Scarlet's Walk'' was better received but ''The Beekeeper'' came out and broke the base clear down the middle. How badly was it broken? You had people joking that Tori had gone soft and that the only way that Tori would be able to make a new good album would be if something bad happened to her family, since most of what made the early Tori albums so popular was the anger Tori had towards Christianity, being raped, her ex-boyfriend, having a miscarriage, etc that drove her early albums. Tori broke her base again with ''American Doll Posse''. One half thought that it was her best album in years, while the other half thought it was crap. ''Abnormally Attracted to Sin'' had similar effects. It wasn't until Tori released a ''solstice'' album (''Midwinter Graces'') that more fans than not were satisfied. 2011's ''Night of Hunters'' was also found to be a step further in the right direction, especially its tour with a string quartet.

to:

* Music/ToriAmos' fanbase started to slowly divide with ''To Venus and Back'', when the much hyped B-Side album was dropped for new material, done mainly so Tori could advance one step closer to get out of her contract with Atlantic Records, Records after being told point blank by the label that they weren't going to promote her work anymore. Some consider TVAB to be Tori's last good album, as her cover album (again done to move her closer to completing her contract) ''Strange Little Girls'' was widely panned.album. ''Scarlet's Walk'' was better received but ''The Beekeeper'' came out and broke the base clear down the middle. How badly was it broken? You had people joking that Tori had gone soft and that the only way that Tori would be able to make a new good album would be if something bad happened to her family, since most of what made the early Tori albums so popular was the anger Tori had towards Christianity, being raped, her ex-boyfriend, having a miscarriage, etc etc. that drove her early albums. albums.
**
Tori broke her base again with ''American Doll Posse''. One half thought that it was her best album in years, while the other half thought it was crap. ''Abnormally Attracted to Sin'' had similar effects. It wasn't until Tori released a ''solstice'' album (''Midwinter Graces'') that more fans than not were satisfied. 2011's ''Night of Hunters'' was also found felt to be a step further in the right direction, especially its tour with a string quartet.



* Anything by Music/{{Sade}} Post ''[[CrowningMusicOfAwesome love Delux]]'', Specifically when ''Lover's Rock'' came out continuing into ''Soldier Of Love''. Mostly because some feel that they are moving from the more organic, quiet storm, contemporary R&B/Soul, contemporary jazz fusion sound, and are suffering from a mild form of modern production aesthetics. Others think they are just changing with the times, And that their music is still good.
* Music/{{Flyleaf}} has been having a slight Fan division since ''Memento Mori'' came out. Some of the fans dislike the album due to its (more explict) Christian undertones; they're NotChristianRock however their lyrics are tinted with Christian overtones due to their beliefs, and their second album is more obviously Christian than the first.
** The opposite has happened to a lot of ChristianRock bands such as Music/{{Skillet}}. They're originally obviously Christian but later they become more secular and their messages more subtle; a majority of their fans don't even realize they're Christian, or notice the Christian overtone.
** [[FaceOfTheBand Lacey]] left the band to peruse other things. The fanbase is torn on whether the newer singer is good or not, whether she's a suitable replacement, or whether they should change the name of the band and stop singing Flyleaf songs.

to:

* Anything by Music/{{Sade}} Post ''[[CrowningMusicOfAwesome post-''[[CrowningMusicOfAwesome love Delux]]'', Specifically specifically when ''Lover's Rock'' came out out, continuing into ''Soldier Of Love''. Mostly because some Some feel that they are moving from the more organic, quiet storm, "quiet storm", contemporary R&B/Soul, contemporary jazz fusion sound, and are suffering from a mild form of modern production aesthetics. Others think they are just changing with the times, And and that their music is still good.
* Music/{{Flyleaf}} has been having a slight Fan fan division since ''Memento Mori'' came out. Some of the fans dislike the album due to its (more explict) Christian undertones; they're NotChristianRock however undertones. The band is NotChristianRock; however, their lyrics are tinted with have Christian overtones due to their beliefs, and their second album is more obviously Christian than the first.
** The opposite has happened to a lot of ChristianRock bands such as Music/{{Skillet}}. They're They were originally very obviously Christian Christian, but later they become more secular and their messages more subtle; a majority of their fans don't even realize they're Christian, or notice the Christian overtone.
overtones.
** [[FaceOfTheBand Lacey]] left the band to peruse persue other things. The fanbase is torn on whether the newer singer is good or not, whether she's a suitable replacement, or whether they should change the name of the band and stop singing Flyleaf songs.



* Evans Blue had two rather unique albums that included the (then) lead singer/songwriter Kevin matisyn. In 2008 Kevin was kicked out of the band and replaced with a new lead who had a completely different sound and lyrics. This caused many, many fans to dislike the new EB. There are other fans, however, who like the new sound of the band.
* Music/DuranDuran's fanbase is rabid about whether the "fab five" lineup of Simon, Nick, John, Andy, and Roger was the acme of the band's existence, whether they improved post-split with the severely trimmed-down lineup of Simon, Nick, and John, whether the best lineup of their musical career was the '90s lineup of Simon, Nick, John, and Warren, whether John leaving the band was a good thing or a terrible thing, or whether the 2001 "reunion" was a good idea. And after Andy left (again!) and they replaced him with Dom, is the band still relevant and interesting or is it a hoary old dinosaur that's fooling itself into thinking it's ''not'' extinct? By the way, even the question of a "reunion" in 2001 brought forth a flurry of controversy from people who resented the insinuation that the band were "reuniting" since they never went away, and it went even deeper when the press frequently cited that it was "the original lineup", since the "fab five" lineup of Simon, Nick, John, Andy, and Roger was in no way the "original lineup" from the band's 1978 establishment (that would've been Steve Duffy, Simon Colley, Nick, and John). It was another reason for the fans who got into the band from about 1987 onward and/or preferred the non-"fab five" band eras, who felt betrayed and disenfranchised by the "reunion" era activities, to hate what was happening, especially since the band seemed to be doing that to court what the disenfranchised fan base felt were "fairweather fans" who dropped the band when it no longer became about the "fab five". The disenfranchised fan set also felt very strongly that from 2004's ''Astronaut'' on, the band had compromised its artistic integrity (since Warren was the member who introduced experimental elements into the band's music) for purely poppish interests.
* Music/GreenDay: ''Music/AmericanIdiot'' is as good as the previous work? They've become {{Emo}}? ''Music/TwentyFirstCenturyBreakdown'' is worth something?
** Green Day have had complaints from some of their older fans about ''most'' of their albums - Dookie marked the switch to a major label and had a comparatively polished production sound; Nimrod diluted the band's melodic punk-rock sound with more diverse influences and produced an acoustic ballad as a major single; Warning diversified further with the acoustic guitars gaining more ground. From a purely sonic point of view, you could almost argue that ''Music/AmericanIdiot'' was a return to past form.

to:

* Evans Blue had two rather unique albums that included the (then) lead singer/songwriter Kevin matisyn.Matisyn. In 2008 Kevin was kicked out of the band and replaced with a new lead who had a completely different sound and lyrics. This caused many, many fans to dislike the new EB. There are other fans, however, who like the new sound of the band.
Cue base breaking.
* Music/DuranDuran's fanbase is rabid about whether the "fab five" lineup of Simon, Nick, John, Andy, and Roger was the acme of the band's existence, existence; whether they improved post-split with the severely trimmed-down lineup of Simon, Nick, and John, John; whether the best lineup of their musical career was the '90s lineup of Simon, Nick, John, and Warren, Warren; whether John leaving the band was a good thing or a terrible thing, thing; or whether the 2001 "reunion" was a good idea. And furthermore, after Andy left (again!) and they replaced him with Dom, is the base argues whether the band is still relevant and interesting or is it a hoary old dinosaur that's fooling itself into thinking it's ''not'' extinct? extinct.
**
By the way, even the question of a "reunion" in 2001 brought forth a flurry of controversy from people who resented the insinuation that the band were "reuniting" since they never went away, and it went even deeper when the press frequently cited that it was "the original lineup", since the "fab five" lineup of Simon, Nick, John, Andy, and Roger was in no way the "original lineup" from the band's 1978 establishment (that would've been Steve Duffy, Simon Colley, Nick, and John). It was another reason for the fans who got into the band from about 1987 onward and/or preferred the non-"fab five" band eras, who felt betrayed and disenfranchised by the "reunion" era activities, to hate what was happening, especially since the band seemed to be doing that to court what the disenfranchised fan base felt were "fairweather fans" who dropped the band when it no longer became about the "fab five". The disenfranchised fan set also felt very strongly that from 2004's ''Astronaut'' on, the band had compromised its artistic integrity (since Warren was the member who introduced experimental elements into the band's music) for purely poppish interests.
* Music/GreenDay: Is ''Music/AmericanIdiot'' is as good as the previous work? They've Have they become {{Emo}}? Is ''Music/TwentyFirstCenturyBreakdown'' is worth something?
** Green Day have had complaints from some of their older fans about ''most'' of their albums - Dookie ''Dookie'' marked the switch to a major label and had a comparatively polished production sound; Nimrod ''Nimrod'' diluted the band's melodic punk-rock sound with more diverse influences and produced an acoustic ballad as a major single; Warning ''Warning'' diversified further with the acoustic guitars gaining more ground. From a purely sonic point of view, you could almost argue that ''Music/AmericanIdiot'' was a return to past form.



* The fanbases of Music/TheWho and Music/TheSmallFaces can get like this occasionally with fans of their R&B days clashing with fans of their later releases like ''Music/{{Tommy}}'', ''Music/WhosNext'' and ''Music/{{Quadrophenia}}'' for the former and ''There Are But Four Small Faces'' and ''Music/OgdensNutGoneFlake'' for the latter.

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* The fanbases of Music/TheWho and Music/TheSmallFaces can get like this occasionally occasionally, with fans of their R&B days clashing with fans of their later releases like ''Music/{{Tommy}}'', (''Music/{{Tommy}}'', ''Music/WhosNext'' and ''Music/{{Quadrophenia}}'' for the former and ''There Are But Four Small Faces'' and ''Music/OgdensNutGoneFlake'' for the latter.latter).



** This the case every time a urban artists tries to cross over...For better or for worse.

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** This the case every time a urban artists artist tries to cross over...For over... for better or for worse.



* Japan's base are extremely split on whether their first two albums are worth listening to or not. People who like their first album Adolescent Sex usually think that Music/DavidSylvian has lost his sense of fun over the years with increasingly mature music. However, people who like the ambient music often wish Adolescent Sex never existed because it conflicts with their view of Sylvian as a melancholic recluse.

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* Japan's base are extremely split on whether their first two albums are worth listening to or not. People who like their first album Adolescent Sex ''Adolescent Sex'' usually think that Music/DavidSylvian has lost his sense of fun over the years with increasingly mature music. However, people who like the ambient music often wish Adolescent Sex ''Adolescent Sex'' never existed because it conflicts with their view of Sylvian as a melancholic recluse.



* Music/RedHotChiliPeppers have quite a large BrokenBase due to their evolution from a funk-punk band through more slow-paced funk mixed with the alternative rock they've produced later on. However, the fanbase are extremely divided on the album [[CreatorBreakdown One Hot Minute]], and starting a thread on a RHCP forum about it is not advised.
* Anything by Music/AlanisMorrisette after ''and before'' ''Music/JaggedLittlePill''.
* Happened to rapper ''Mystikal'' after he left No Limit records and came out with the club friendly ''Let's Get Ready'' CD. Causing ''A LOT'' of ''Unpredictable/Ghetto Fabulous'' (his most popular albums prior to the 00's) vs. ''Let's Get Ready'' album wars.
* It's not advised of you to go to rapper Twista's message board and bring up anything after the Adrenalin Rush album (Twista's most beloved album, plus somewhat of a cult classic). Interestingly enough one Allmusic reviewer snarkily points this out when they reviewed his ''The Day After'' Album, Commenting that fans of Adrenalin Rush is gonna sneer at the album because it's filled with slick R&B productions. And that's ''exactly'' what happened.
** His Adrenalin Rush 2007 album caused even more controversy , because it was called adrenaline rush... and sounded ''[[InNameOnly nothing]]'' like the original...Baaaad idea.
* Fans of the Music/{{Sugababes}} with Keisha vs fans of the lineup without her. Keisha was kicked out of the band in 2009, and replaced with another member. A huge argument erupted between fans of Keisha and fans that were willing to give the new version of the band a chance. The Keisha fans argued that the band wasn't Sugababes anymore without her (because she was a founding member), while the others argued that they should give the new lineup a chance and the music would still be the same no matter what.
* Music/KidRock has changed his music style several times over the years. Initially he was a rapper, then he made the very successful "Devil Without A Cause" which blended rap with rock & roll, and since then he has dabbled in SouthernRock, AC/DC-style HardRock, country, and even gospel. Naturally this has caused rifts in his fan base, with fans of his early stuff accusing him of "selling out" while fans of his newer stuff believe that he has grown and matured.

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* Music/RedHotChiliPeppers have quite a large BrokenBase due to their evolution from a funk-punk band through more slow-paced funk mixed with the alternative rock they've produced later on. However, the fanbase are extremely divided on the album [[CreatorBreakdown ''[[CreatorBreakdown One Hot Minute]], Minute]]'', and starting a thread on a RHCP forum about it is not advised.
* Anything by Music/AlanisMorrisette after ''and before'' ''Music/JaggedLittlePill''.
''Music/JaggedLittlePill''. Also, anything before ''Jagged Little Pill.''
* Happened to rapper ''Mystikal'' after he left No Limit records and came out with the club friendly club-friendly ''Let's Get Ready'' CD. Causing CD, causing ''A LOT'' of ''Unpredictable/Ghetto Fabulous'' (his most popular albums prior to the 00's) vs. ''Let's Get Ready'' album wars.
* It's not advised of you to go to rapper Twista's message board and bring up anything after the Adrenalin Rush album (Twista's most beloved album, plus somewhat of a cult classic). Interestingly enough one Allmusic reviewer snarkily points this out when they reviewed his ''The Day After'' Album, Commenting commenting that fans of Adrenalin Rush is are gonna sneer at the album because it's filled with slick R&B productions. And that's ''exactly'' what happened.
** His Adrenalin Rush 2007 album caused even more controversy , because it was called adrenaline rush... and sounded ''[[InNameOnly nothing]]'' like the original...Baaaad baaaaad idea.
* Fans of the Music/{{Sugababes}} with Keisha vs fans of the lineup without her. Keisha was kicked out of the band in 2009, 2009 and replaced with another member. A huge argument erupted between fans of Keisha and fans that were willing to give the new version of the band a chance. The Keisha fans argued that the band wasn't Sugababes anymore without her (because she was a founding member), while the others argued that they should give the new lineup a chance and the music would still be the same no matter what.
* Music/KidRock has changed his music style several times over the years. Initially he was a rapper, rapper; then he made the very successful "Devil Without A Cause" which blended rap with rock & roll, and since then he has dabbled in SouthernRock, AC/DC-style HardRock, country, and even gospel. Naturally this has caused rifts in his fan base, with fans of his early stuff accusing him of "selling out" while fans of his newer stuff believe that he has grown and matured.



** There is also a Fallen/Evanescence fans who like their rockier more violent flat out rock/metal sound, which is rather sad/downbeat lyrically and The Open Door fans who like the focus on build and more classical elements, with more abstract lyrics and sarcasm.
* Any 21st-century country act with a rock edge and a propensity towards Southern-themed songs, often about girls and/or trucks. Examples include Music/JasonAldean, Music/BrantleyGilbert, Music/LukeBryan, and Music/FloridaGeorgiaLine. Some like them for their accesibility and harder sound, while others think them to be posers who trade in one cliché for another in hopes of pleasing radio programmers. The movement has been dubbed "bro-country".

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** There is are also a Fallen/Evanescence fans who like their rockier rockier, more violent flat out rock/metal sound, which is rather sad/downbeat lyrically lyrically, and The Open Door fans who like the focus on build and more classical elements, with more abstract lyrics and sarcasm.
* Any 21st-century country act with a rock edge and a propensity towards Southern-themed songs, often about girls and/or trucks. Examples include Music/JasonAldean, Music/BrantleyGilbert, Music/LukeBryan, and Music/FloridaGeorgiaLine. Some like them for their accesibility accessibility and harder sound, while others think them to be posers who trade in one cliché for another in hopes of pleasing radio programmers. The movement has been dubbed "bro-country".



* Music/MyChemicalRomance. Dear God, ''Music/MyChemicalRomance''. Was ''I Brought You My Bullets, You Brought Me Your Love'' an underrated success of theirs or just the band finding their feet? Is ''Three Cheers For Sweet Revenge'' the greatest thing they've done, or would that be ''Music/TheBlackParade''? Did they completely lose the plot with ''Danger Days: The True Lives of the Fabulous Killjoys'' or is a refreshing new start for them? Should ex-drummer Bob Bryar be reunited with the group or is that era over and done with etc. etc. etc.

to:

* Music/MyChemicalRomance. Dear God, ''Music/MyChemicalRomance''. Was ''I Brought You My Bullets, You Brought Me Your Love'' an underrated success of theirs or just the band finding their feet? Is ''Three Cheers For Sweet Revenge'' the greatest thing they've done, or would that be ''Music/TheBlackParade''? Did they completely lose the plot with ''Danger Days: The True Lives of the Fabulous Killjoys'' or is a refreshing new start for them? Should ex-drummer Bob Bryar be reunited with the group or is that era over and done with etc. etc. etc.with?



* Music/SilversunPickups. Dear god, Silversun Pickups. You'll either think that "Neck of the Woods" is another great album, or a bad, more bland, change in sound. This troper likes "Neck of the Woods" a lot, but has plenty of friends who don't.

to:

* Music/SilversunPickups. Dear god, Silversun Pickups. You'll either think that "Neck of the Woods" is another great album, or a bad, more bland, change in sound. This troper likes "Neck of the Woods" a lot, but has plenty of friends who don't.



* Vanity 6 vs Apollonia 6
* Rap duo Mobb Deep has had a very polarizing post-[[TheNineties nineties]] career. Like their queens native contemporary Nas, Mobb Deep has had to endure a broken base ever since Murda Muzik. Everything after that album was highly contentions. Then they signed to G-unit....and things went downhill from there.
** Blood Money was a polarizing album that got mixed reviews from fans. It did get good ratings from HipHop publications like XXL, and Vibe, but outside of that it got average reviews.
* In fact almost every rapper from the [[TheNineties 90's]] had issues with transitioning into the TurnOfTheMillennium. Either adapt and lose the core fans, or stay the same and possibly become irrelevant because you couldn't grab new younger fans. It's a complicated tight rope to walk.

to:

* Vanity 6 vs Apollonia 6
6.
* Rap duo Mobb Deep has had a very polarizing post-[[TheNineties nineties]] career. Like their queens Queens native contemporary Nas, Mobb Deep has had to endure a broken base ever since Murda Muzik. Everything after that album was highly contentions.contentious. Then they signed to G-unit....and things went downhill from there.
** Blood Money ''Blood Money'' was a polarizing album that got mixed reviews from fans. It did get good ratings from HipHop publications like XXL, XXL and Vibe, but outside of that it got average reviews.
* In fact fact, almost every rapper from the [[TheNineties 90's]] had issues with transitioning into the TurnOfTheMillennium. Either adapt and lose the core fans, or stay the same and possibly become irrelevant because you couldn't grab new younger fans. It's a complicated tight rope to walk.



* Music/{{Muse}}. Take a look on the official board and you'll see a pretty definite divide between "people who think Bellamy can do no wrong" and "people who think the band've jumped the shark but hang about because of friend they've made". Threads can easily dissolve into "if you don't like them, why are you still here?" or on the flip side "you'd listen to faecal matter if it came from Bellamy and you'd praise it to high heaven". Beyond that, there's another set of splits between "people who think they started to suck after absolution"; "people who think they started to suck after getting involved with twilight" and "people who think the resistance is a work of art". Things can get... Heated
** And that's before The 2nd Law comes out. Hooooooo boy, the reaction to the dubstep in the trailer...
** To be fair, the inclusion of beats reminiscent of dubstep in ''The 2nd Law'' was reasonably well-received as it was one of the few rock bands to make dubstep-inspired beats work with their conventional style. What was much more divisive was the completely scatter-shot nature of the album, and the variety of musical styles that Muse attempted (with mixed success) to pull off.

to:

* Music/{{Muse}}. Take a look on the official board and you'll see a pretty definite divide between "people who think Bellamy can do no wrong" and "people who think the band've jumped the shark but hang about because of friend friends they've made". Threads can easily dissolve into "if you don't like them, why are you still here?" or or, on the flip side side, "you'd listen to faecal matter if it came from Bellamy and you'd praise it to high heaven". Beyond that, there's another set of splits between "people who think they started to suck after absolution"; ''Absolution''"; "people who think they started to suck after getting involved with twilight" Twilight" and "people who think the resistance ''The Resistance'' is a work of art". Things can get... Heated
heated.
** And that's before The ''The 2nd Law comes Law'' came out. Hooooooo boy, the reaction to the dubstep in the trailer...
** To be fair, the inclusion of beats reminiscent of dubstep in ''The 2nd Law'' was reasonably well-received as it was one of the few rock bands to make dubstep-inspired beats work with their conventional style. What Dubstep aside, what was much more divisive was the completely scatter-shot nature of the album, and the variety of musical styles that Muse attempted (with mixed success) to pull off.



* For Music/{{Boards Of Canada}} fans, the eternal question is: Music Has the Right to Children, or its successor, Geogaddi? Mind you, pretty much all fans agree that both are excellent albums, but as for which one's better...well, be prepared for flame wars. (For some reason, supporters of Twoism or The Campfire Headphase are few and far between).



* Cassadee Pope REALLY split her fanbase when she left pop punk band Hey Monday, went onto ''The Voice'' and won, and went on to perform... wait for it... '''''[[NewSoundAlbum COUNTRY MUSIC]].''''' Many fans love this new direction, others are... to put it lightly, '''''VERY''''' torn on it, especially considering that country music is a very polarizing genre.

to:

* Cassadee Pope REALLY split her fanbase when she left pop punk band Hey Monday, went onto ''The Voice'' and won, and went on to perform... wait for it... '''''[[NewSoundAlbum ''[[NewSoundAlbum COUNTRY MUSIC]].''''' '' Many fans love this new direction, others are... are, to put it lightly, '''''VERY''''' ''very'' torn on it, especially considering that country music is already a very polarizing genre.



* Was Hazards of Love a crime against humanity, or a brilliant work of art? Has The King Of Dead once and for all proved that Music/TheDecemberists have lost their touch and are "going mainstream Americana?" While conversations about this particular band are usually amiable, one can find some ''vocal'' detractors.
* As mentioned with other example, this happens a lot to Christian musicians, and often [[NotChristianRock people who are assumed to be]]. There's a big rift between fans who interpret songs in a religious manner and songs who interpret them in a more secular manner.

to:

* Was Hazards ''Hazards of Love Love'' a crime against humanity, or a brilliant work of art? Has The ''The King Of Dead Dead'' once and for all proved that Music/TheDecemberists have lost their touch and are "going mainstream Americana?" While conversations about this particular band are usually amiable, one can find some ''vocal'' detractors.
* As mentioned with other example, examples, this happens a lot to Christian musicians, and often [[NotChristianRock people who are assumed to be]]. There's a big rift between fans who interpret songs in a religious manner and songs who interpret them in a more secular manner.



** Is Music/MickJagger the heart and soul of the Stones? Or is it Music/KeithRichards? It's difficult to say which one of the two is more irreplaceable?

to:

** Is Music/MickJagger the heart and soul of the Stones? Or is it Music/KeithRichards? It's difficult to say which one of the two is more irreplaceable?irreplaceable.



* ButcherBabies got criticism for the two lead singers performing topless with pasties. Others point out that it's a Homage to performer Wendy O. Williams. But it's likely that most of their audience doesn't even know who that is.

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* ButcherBabies got criticism for the two lead singers performing topless with pasties. Others point out that it's a Homage an homage to performer Wendy O. Williams. But it's likely that most of their audience doesn't even know who that is.
13th Nov '16 10:28:27 AM TSims
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** A heavier example is the fire storm that happened when they said #AllLivesMatter. Then they backtracked and said that #AllLivesMatter and #BlackLivesMatter. That just made it worse.

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** A heavier example is the fire storm that happened when they said #AllLivesMatter. #[=AllLivesMatter=]. Then they backtracked and said that #AllLivesMatter #[=AllLivesMatter=] and #BlackLivesMatter.#[=BlackLivesMatter=]. That just made it worse.
15th Aug '16 8:45:06 AM TSims
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Added DiffLines:

** When and where did TheGoldenAgeOfHipHop begins and ends. Some say it's around the late 80's to early to mid 90's. A few hardliners say it's just the early to mid 80's only. The latter is a small but VocalMinority.
15th Aug '16 8:34:52 AM TSims
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** A heavier example is the fire storm that happened when they said #AllLivesMatter. Then they backtracked and said that #AllLivesMatter and #BlackLivesMatter. That just made it worse.

to:

** A **A heavier example is the fire storm that happened when they said #AllLivesMatter. Then they backtracked and said that #AllLivesMatter and #BlackLivesMatter. That just made it worse.



**Same situation with classic HipHop. Anything pass 2000 on a classic hip-hop station is heavily contentious.



* ButcherBabies got criticism for the two lead singers performing topless with pasties. Others point out that it's a Homage to performer Wendy O. Williams. But it's likely that most of their audience doesn't even know who that is.
** Gets even more dicey when people claim that the criticism is passive aggressive SlutShaming.

to:

* ButcherBabies *ButcherBabies got criticism for the two lead singers performing topless with pasties. Others point out that it's a Homage to performer Wendy O. Williams. But it's likely that most of their audience doesn't even know who that is.
** Gets **Gets even more dicey when people claim that the criticism is passive aggressive SlutShaming.
15th Aug '16 8:17:07 AM TSims
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Added DiffLines:

**A heavier example is the fire storm that happened when they said #AllLivesMatter. Then they backtracked and said that #AllLivesMatter and #BlackLivesMatter. That just made it worse.


Added DiffLines:

*ButcherBabies got criticism for the two lead singers performing topless with pasties. Others point out that it's a Homage to performer Wendy O. Williams. But it's likely that most of their audience doesn't even know who that is.
**Gets even more dicey when people claim that the criticism is passive aggressive SlutShaming.
1st Aug '16 10:47:55 PM KizunaTallis
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* {{Trance}} has what is quite possibly the most fractured fanbase in ElectronicMusic. Arguments mainly center on what constitutes as [[NoTrueScotsman "true"]] trance (the weird and trippy psychedelic trance versus the euphoric and emotional uplifting trance, which is just one of many inner fandom rivalries), with the fandom continuing to schism more and more due to the sheer number of subgenres within the larger scene and the directions the genre has taken over the years.

to:

* {{Trance}} has what is quite possibly the most fractured fanbase in ElectronicMusic. Arguments mainly center on what constitutes as [[NoTrueScotsman "true"]] trance (the weird and trippy psychedelic trance versus the euphoric and emotional uplifting trance, which is just one of many inner fandom rivalries), with the fandom continuing to schism more and more due to the sheer number of subgenres within the larger scene and the directions the genre has taken over the years.years, especially in the increasingly commercialized climate of TheNewTens ElectronicMusic scene.
18th Jun '16 10:10:19 PM FlakyPorcupine
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Added DiffLines:

* When Music/{{Katatonia}} drastically shifted from being a blackened DoomMetal band to a LighterAndSofter AlternativeMetal band starting with ''Discouraged Ones'' and stuck with it, this reaction is a given.
18th Jun '16 7:13:55 PM FlakyPorcupine
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Added DiffLines:

* A lot of Music/{{Dismember}} listeners wonder if any of the albums between ''Indecent and Obscene'' (or at least, ''Massive Killing Capacity'') and ''The God That Never Was'' were any good, since the band added a lot more focus on melody than straight up DeathMetal.
12th Apr '16 1:31:10 PM Giantsgiants
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* Happens with classic rock too. What should the cutoff year be? Are 90's (or even late 80's) rock allowed to be classics? Should so-and-so band be considered classic rock? (The latter debate is especially prominent with [[Music/GunsNRoses Guns N' Roses]], Music/{{Metallica}}, Music/{{Nirvana}}, and Music/PearlJam.)

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* Happens with classic rock too. Is classic rock just a radio format or a distinct style of its own? What should the cutoff year be? Are 90's (or even late 80's) rock allowed to be classics? Should so-and-so band be considered classic rock? (The latter debate is especially prominent with [[Music/GunsNRoses Guns N' Roses]], Music/{{Metallica}}, Music/{{Nirvana}}, and Music/PearlJam.)
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=BrokenBase.Music