This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Beta Ray: "Generic Dark Past? Judging by A New Beginning, it wouldn't be too surprising if Malefor used her as a sex slave. " Really? I'm not seeing it. Care to elaborate? And I mean this in the nicest way possible.
Malchus: Removed the following from the Naruto examples:
- This troper feels your pain. She adores Naruto x Gaara, but hates the amount of bashing done to Sakura and Sasuke; Sakura becomes an example of this trope, and Sasuke's a rapist -.- Also, I must be very careful where I reveal that my other OTP (Yes, I know...) is Lee x Sasuke., or I will be murdered by NaruSasu, SasuSaku, and LeeSaku fans alike.
- Don't worry about them'... I'm gonna drown you (in Brain Bleach) for coming up with that one!
- What's wrong with my pairing? u.u
- This conversation has officially become very nutty.
- And funny, but that's me. <3
Ununnilium: See, now I wish we'd called this Going Down with the Ship. Ah well.
Morgan Wick: Um, a lot of these examples seem to not be examples... and this is one of those names that seems destined to be completely forgotten and later brought up in YKTTW.
Jisu: Not examples? Explain.
Morgan Wick: The Sakura example: Despite the intense possibilities, he has the strong support of much of the fandom. Oddly enough, Futari Wa Pretty Cure, poster child of non-canon yuri shipping, doesn't have legions of people out to get Kiriya or Fujipi.
Jisu: Fixed the Sakura example — a lot of people do hate him for that reason. And the Precure one is notable for being an exception, given the series' iconic status in non-canon yuri.
SAMAS: IIRC, the furor over Sakuya in Tenchi Muyo wasn't that she got Tenchi, but that she was a new character who got Tenchi.
Khym Chanur: In Harem Anime, is it really the Unlucky Everydude that gets shafted? In the Love Hina and Ranma 1/2 fic that I've read, the male lead almost never gets bashed, but one (or more) of the members of the harem. And I've heard that Ayeka from Tenchi Muyo gets the same treatment.
Jisu: On the same note, I haven't seen many tsundere get bashed like this. Most of the people on the list rarely even get angry! Maybe I'm in the wrong fandoms, though.
Binaroid: Well, I guess it can depend on what fics you read. I know that there is a large amount of hatred for harem protagonists — see Exhibit A: The "Enemies of All Mankind" poster.
◊ Tsundere can also split the fanbase between fans who sympathise with the tsundere and fans who dislike her antics. (Google "Knights of the True Fiancee" for a Ranma 1/2 example of tsundere supporters.)
osh: It's a different sort of dislike. Harem protagonists are often canonically treated as losers. There's not a lot a lot of "fuel" work with.
SAMAS The "Enemies of all Mankind" thing is a bit of a joke. Hell, Ranma is usually subject to outright Woobiefication when it comes to fanfics.
Binaroid: osh, I disagree. Unwanted Harem series tend to justify themselves by trying to focus on their protagonists' good points — ususally, that they're a variant of The Messiah. Of course, some of the fanbase refuses to buy it.
Idle Dandy: Oh-ho! Obviously someone has not been hanging around the SVU section of fanfiction.net (and I don't blame you, because the fics there are teh suck.) There are plenty of Kathy-is-an-evil-shrew fics and even more Kathy-dies-horribly fics. Not to mention that back when I used to post in that show's T Wo P area, she was known as Chemistryless Kathy, the only organism on Earth who shows no chemistry with Chris Meloni.
Lale: I hate TWOP, so that must be why I didn't ctach that. The tv.com forum only seems to be anti-Dani.
Andyzero: I seem to be engaged in a struggle between describing the possibility of Nanoha and Yuuno's relationship as either "having more evidence" or "being more traditional." Can Jisu please explain why it has more evidence? Nanoha herself is rather a Chaste Hero, and fired up the Selective Obliviousness the few times he tried bringing up the subject.
Jisu: Ah, so you're the Feinano shipper that keeps changing it to "traditional". The thing is, he's actually expressed interest, and besides Hayate and Alisa, has the cast working for him too. Despite the fact that he's been Put on a Bus in StrikerS, they're still hinting at it, and how could anyone not see that blushy silent conversation as anything but finally reciprocated? Whereas the Fate Ship Tease, I think, is there to get the yuri fanboys going (you and I both know how they treat Yuuno on Image Boards while elevating Fate as a goddess, and demographic appeal is everything).
Ship-slanted? Naaah.
Andyzero: Sounds like you are more backlashing against the fandom itself. That's not "hard evidence" and I'll change it every time you do. <g>
Jisu: Possibly. But if you're going to do that, please just explain the "more traditional" bit, as it sounds like you are backlashing against my ship too.
Andyzero: Sure. Other than the supplementary materials saying that two other character's once encouraged Yuuno; (as if any Japanese person would ever be blunt enough to say "stop trying, she's into girls") Nanoha has blushed at both Fate and Yuuno. Yet you are citing this as more "hard evidence" for Yuuno's case than it is for Fate. Thus giving blushing at Yuuno more weight is more traditional.
Jisu: I knew you were going to pull that on me. I think this is less about rights and canon than it is a ship war, and if it's a ship war, I know I'm going to lose because your pairing has way more fans than mine does.
osh: I wasn't even aware this was anything past an amusing 'alternative' ship since the series doesn't seem to go for those the way fans do, but we're talking about the Nanoha who sleeps in the same bed with a blonde and are basically raising little miss Boat Lights, yes? I thought this entry was for shipping drama despite a relevant series not supporting the drama (read: fans are nuts).
Andyzero: Also, there is no "Kill the rat" meme. If it doesn't show up on Google, not enough people are openly saying it on the Internet for it to be a "meme." Stop acting like victims.
Fast Eddie: This 'graph
- Hate shrines. Death fics. Fics where the formerly sweet and loyal character cheats on the heroine with her two best friends and proceeds to murder her teammates, just so she can be with the Jerk with a Heart of Gold, or the Stalker with a Crush, or her brother, or whomever else the fan prefers. Canon material where your romantic rival dies to make place for you. They're all over the place. If authors don't engage in the former quickly enough fans will quickly start to hate them. People who know nothing about the show or even the genre know much of the fandom hates the rival love interest, often pertaining to have justified motives over a thinly disguised shipper heart. But it's for a very clear reason. He or she dared to get in the way of their OTP. Can we get a little MST3K Mantra here, please?
... is not English. It is an example of why people denigrate fanfic.
Jisu: As I recall, you denigrated all H-games as being about serial rapists that one time, and I got defensive... Hypocrisy aside, there is a great deal of difference between all fanfic and badfic.
Ununnilium: Eddie: Bwah? Other than a couple of grammatical errors and extra words, it's a perfectly servicable paragraph. Lemme eliminate those and see what you think.
Jisu: Hope the picture's good. I considered a few, but there's no way that poor Aoyama-kun could not be the poster boy here.
Ununnilium: Taking out "Except for those who ship Karasuma+Tenma. Or the occasional Yakumo+Harima pairings." because the slight increase in accuracy doesn't make up for the large loss in funny. `` Also taking out "Though once she stopped being a Faux Action Girl in Shipuuden, she became a decently cool character. Specifically, this editor would like to meet the man who didn't think the scene where she owns the Third Kazekage's puppet wasn't totally and completely awesome." because the coolness of the character doesn't matter to the example.
Roland: Just wondering why you insist on keeping this School Rumble thing so vehemently. Yes, I suppose it's a tad bit funny, but it's an untrue example. The two largest shippings in School Rumble fandom, and the cause of most arguments are Harima/Eri and Harima/Yakumo. Harima's crush on Tenma is pretty much irrelevant to the fandom. Arguably, the Harima/Yakumo pairing is the most popular to the mangaka himself judging by the manga/anime and the fact that they're the closest in terms of an actual relationship/
Ununnilium: Honestly, I've never seen the show; the line inserted above was just badly-shoved-in. Change it if you must, but rewrite it so your evidence fits; don't just staple it on at the end.
Ununnilium: Took out from the Kim Possible entry, since it doesn't really matter: "It was also confirmed by director Steve Loter that Tara had originally been planned as Ron's love interest to correlate with Josh, but story ideas never really developed."
Later:
- However, the one most likely to be turned into a psycho in fanfic is Yamato/Matt, as the Tai(chi)/Sora fandom was the biggest from day one.
- This editor only partially agrees, since the Tai(chi)/Yamato fans and some Tai(chi)/Sora fans are equally strong and vocal about their loath for Sora. The first see her as a couplebreaker, the others are pissy because she chose Yamato over Tai.
- However, the one most likely to be turned into a psycho in fanfic is Yamato/Matt, as the Tai(chi)/Sora fandom was the biggest from day one.
This seems to prove what the entry says — no specific popular combination.
Later:
- Please tell me you're joking.
Fast Eddie: pulled hot linked image: Tokyo Mew Mew http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/6466/imagepm8.jpg
Gracie Lizzie: Why? It's an imageshack image, that's what imageshack is for.
Cassius335: Seconded and restored.
- And then, there's Ryouga. If you have to ask, do you want to know?
Yes. Explain it or there's no point in putting it in the entry.
Though in this troper's opinion Orihime bashing is much more frequent than Rukia bashing, especially since the beginning of the latest arc. (Incidentally, this troper would like it best if Ichigo was completely removed from the equation, leaving Orihime and Rukia together...)
- The troper isn't adverse at the idea itself, though she'd rather see Orihime with Matsumoto or Tatsuki instead. Hehe.
- This troper disagrees in one of these cases. Taichi was much less bashed than Sora ("Whore who first was after Taichi and then betrayed him!") and Yamato ("Traitor who surely raped Sora to brainwash her into choosing him and not Taichi!") And don't forget how Miyako took the brunt of the bashing in the Miyako-Ken-Daisuke because she got Ken in the end and not Daisuke
We went over this further up the page, with different contributors who had seen one or the other bashed way more.
Gloating Swine: Snipped Macross stuff until I can rewrite it/merge it into Better Than Canon. It certainly doesn't fit here, as it appears to be talking about the canon events, and only Guld in Macross Plus ever died for the ship in canon, and that was understandable in context.
Done, purged from here, doesn't fit.
Does the comment on Donna bashing in Doctor Who really belong here? Though I have seen the bashing, it seems a lot less based on shipping, and more hating Catherine Tate for being a comedy actress/Donna being designed to be obnoxious in 'Runaway Bride'/Donna being basically a Jonas Quinn for Rose and/or Martha.
- I personally think it does - I saw a lot of Rosefen (and Marthafen) hating on Donna because she got in the way of their OTP.
Lale: This is Wild Mass Guessing: "Though with the finale approaching soon, expect plenty of Heroic Sacrifice from Aang, and possibly Mai as well in the Fan Fic to come, leaving two loose ends to comfort each other."
Conversation In The Main Page:
- Due to the popularity of Zutara, there's been a trend among some Katara/Aang and Mai/Zuko shippers to bash the competition to their ship. Katara/Aang fans will call Zuko a whiny ugly emo bitch and Mai/Zuko shippers dismiss Katara as a Canon Sue.
- I would hasten to say it seems these shippers just think she's a Canon Sue , thanks to the fact that many males in the series seem to have an instant thing for her, along with the instant expertise, this has lead at least one of them to join the HMS Maiko out of exhaustion and a want to avoid the major pissing match. Zuko Hate is more a reaction to something else. . .
- Due to the popularity of Zutara, there's been a trend among some Katara/Aang and Mai/Zuko shippers to bash the competition to their ship. Katara/Aang fans will call Zuko a whiny ugly emo bitch and Mai/Zuko shippers dismiss Katara as a Canon Sue.
The latter was correcting the former as incorrect and sounds accurate.
More Conversation In The Main Page:
- This troper wasn't. He thinks it makes an interesting Love Triangle.
- There are some waiting for one of the ladies to be proved Axe-Crazy or Brainwashed and Crazy enough to Murder the Hypotenuse (or justfy the competition doing same), while rather more are hoping they can sneak a Tenchi Solution in a "Kid's" Show.
Ellie: As the person who put up the first part, no, it was not incorrect. As a witness of many ship wars, a minority of the fandom do bash the characters for those very reasons (I can go dig for for threads are forums if evidence is needed). I'll put it back up unless anyone has any other objections.
Ununnilium: Yeah, I'm honestly sure there are some who feel just that way.
Lale: Cut "Made increasingly insane in that the book is autobiographical, with Jo being the Author Avatar of Lou, and sister May (Amy's real life counterpart) did in truth marry Laurie's real life counterpart." I don't remember the name of May Alcott's husband, but I know it wasn't Laurie's Real Life inspiration, Ladislas Wisnewski. As for Amy's Canon Sue albel, that has little to do with shipping. She may not truly be a Mary Sue, but the narrator thinks she is and praises her as such.
Jisu: Similarly, cut the responses to Aoyama: he's not perfect, only in the eyes of Ichigo and his fangirls. In fact, he feels forced to act perfect because his parents have given him the idea that no one will care about him otherwise. He also has compounded issues from his girlfriend being chased after by perverts and constantly risking her life, which leads him to become overprotective of her, but he learns and grows out of that — a fact that people ignore in their quest to prove him to be a Flat Character.
Rogue 7: Soifon and Yoruichi. Sexy Threesome adventures. I would pay a lot to be in Urahara's shoes for that.
fleb: This Digimon Tamers threadmode addendum is so long, I'm double-percent-sign'ing it into oblivion so it can't even be read here without editing the page.
Cassius335: Well, that's pointless. Edit made. It is over-long, not arguing there...
- Similarly, in reference to Digimon Tamers, some sects of the fandom have spawned an overly-complex "Love Hexagon" concerning Rika (Ruki), Takato, Jeri (Juri), Henry, Alice (despite her only appearing briefly in the series), and Ryo, which loops back to Rika. The Hexagon results in a conflict of interests between any single character and the other three potential mates of the other gender. It's moderately justified, for example, due to Takato's interest in both Rika and Jeri (going out of his way to help both girls consecutively in that season) and the mysteriousness of Alice (this factor about the blonde goth also permitting shipping with the other two males as well). The Hexagon can also be seen as the culminations of the shipping wars for that season. Separately however, the three frontrunners in battle usually come to Rika-Ryo, Rika-Takato (Or 'Rukato') and Takato-Jeri. The first is usually fantasized about by fangirls, the third by Takato's drive to save Jeri in the final arc of the season, and the Second due to the work Takato did in bringing Rika out of her ice-queen shell (albeit said process given the most credit to Renamon's efforts, justifiably so..), as well as the events of the second Tamers movie 'Runaway Locomon' (the dubbed version, however, set it up more along the lines of the 'results of developing their friendship', to make it more children-oriented). Due to the similarity, references, and duality of Tamers characters and plot with those of Neon Genesis Evangelion, the fans of said series have a tendency to ship the same boats (Shinji-Asuka and Takato-Rika, for example).
OverMaster: This troper begins to wonder if it was needed to twist the Yuiichi Tate example with so much of the subjective bashing we're supposed to be criticizing here...
Rebochan: This trope confuses me:
- Some fans like to make Guido from Samurai Pizza Cats an abusive jerk, to enable the Speedy/Polly pairing.
The last episode of Samurai Pizza Cats paired Speedy and Polly canonically. Guido was never interested in Polly - he and Speedy always fueded over Lucille, who was unpaired at the end of the show. I admit it's been a long time since I've hung around the SPC circuit, but I've never heard of this type of fic. Could someone help me out here?
colleen4ever: Some of those fics are on fanfiction.net. Mostly written as an F-you to all the Guido supporters on another website- edoropolis.org- which is basically an 'I love Guido' website and think that Speedy is a brainless jerk, not worthy of Polly despite the final ep, she belongs with Guido, etc. This trouper was on that website a while ago, and was stoned and made fun of for being a Speedy fan!
Sarahsuke: Since I know who you are from Edoropolis Eporium, colleen4ever, may I kindly suggest not stirring up drama on this website too? (For the confused, that particular troper believes that anyone who doesn't agree with her unrealistic ideal of Speedy/Polly is bashing them. In fact, the only "stoning" she got from the EE members was because of her childish behavior. Pay her no mind.)
puritybrown: I don't really hang around the Runaways fandom much, but I've noticed a few people saying they dislike Xavin because s/he gets in the way of Karolina/Nico ship. Any Runaways fans want to confirm/deny this?
PellyCan: I've seen it, although I think pairing up the beautiful teenage girls with each other instead of with the genderbending alien seems more like Better Than Canon.
The Nifty: this page has so many Take Thats and Justifying Edits that reading it is an odd experience; all of the shippers who keep re-writing this to make other possible ships look bad (or their own look good) have rendered it positively schizophrenic. Urgh, it's poorly written enough to make my head hurt. Quit Complaining About Shippers You Dont Like.
Willy Four Eyes: I agree, and I'm tempted to call for an Example Sectionectomy here. This has gotten way out of hand.
fleb: Slick Nick Shady: So... where's the "Factual Error" in these bullet points? They sound fine to me. (I restored the explanation about Josh Mankey's personality, too. Seriously, it's not as if explaining things like this impugns the canon-ness of Kim/Ron or something.)
Rogue 7: Whoaaa Nelly, there, Unknown 20 Troper. Any chance you could cut down on the size of that "Fairly Oddparents" section?
Black Charizard: This paragraph:
...is unnecessarily biting. I'm cutting it.
Deadpool Fan: In the fourth episode of the second season of Spectacular Spider-Man, where Liz and Peter start off their relationship... was I the only one who said "Bitch" to myself for how Liz stopped the Gwen/Peter relationship from starting up?
-Actually, no. I said "bitch" too. However, I was adressing the one actually at fault, Peter....
Vulpy: Skimming this page may have done something adverse to my sanity, but for some reason, I couldn't stop until I hit the end. Fandoms scare me sometimes. What's worse is that I'm starting to understand...
Taelor: At the person who keeps changing all of the Japanese names from Eastern to Western order, I have a question: Why do you care. Is it really that important?
Marionetta: Cut this, which I was involved in. Under the Axis Powers Hetalia examples...
- It seems the trope has finally come down on England, of all characters - there has been a number of Russia/America fanfics that portray him as a sick, twisted yandere who tortures America. This troper still can't wrap her head around it.
- Really? I was under the impression that America/England was far and away the most popular ship in Western fandom. Are you sure there's that many fics doing such?
- Well, these were obviously not written by America/England fans... I've seen at least four, with two by the same author.
- If the author is who I think it is, I don't think the point of the fic(s) was DFOS, since almost everything s/he writes is Dark Fic and unhealthy relationships. The author also said that s/he doesn't see England as a creepy rapist Yandere, apparently just some sort of kink. Said author has even written England/America fluff before. (Sorry for the Natter)
- Whatever the intent may have been, the stories read as Die for Our Ship. And even if that particular author is "excused," the other stories still remain.
- It seems the trope has finally come down on England, of all characters - there has been a number of Russia/America fanfics that portray him as a sick, twisted yandere who tortures America. This troper still can't wrap her head around it.
I didn't take out that first line, but even counting the fics I find questionable I'm just not sure if there are significant or vocal enough to actually consider it a fandom opinion. It looks like they are mostly working alone. I've also seen a couple/few fics in which Hungary is bashed to pair up Prussia/Austria, but that's not a widespread enough thing, so... But if this is true, consider me shocked speechless. I'm not new to fandom, but... It Never Gets Any Easier. Making England evil to pair up Russia and America would make me want to break some walls.
Stalker!Anon: The author may have written England/America fluff before but s/he seems to have taken a dislike for that pairing, so Sick Yandare!England might have been, if not a full Die for Our Ship reaction, but a decision motivated by shipping nonetheless.
Barano: "Sink For Our Ship"?
Solandra: I recently reformatted the Axis Powers Hetalia example (though the Poland/Lithuania vs. Russia/Lithuania addition isn't mine); as much as I love the fandom for being mostly sane and civil, there didn't need to be so many bullet points compounding that fact. Although I have to agree that the listed cases are more the exception than the rule - the added Poland/Lithuania vs. Russia/Lithuania example made me go O_o as I honestly haven't seen much of that going on (isn't Russia supposed to be Yandere for Lithuania in canon?) and I'm fairly certain that the majority of Russia/America fics focus more on the Mind Game Ship aspect than dragging England into it. Let us hope that this remains the case. (What would really make me cry would be fans of my OTP deciding to bash France and/or Russia.) ETA: I think I know which author the above discussion is referring to and it looks like she really does hate America/England, according to the comments she made in regards to her multichaptered Russia/America fic on how she views America/England as just plain wrong and England's crush on America as a shallow one he needs to grow out of. So Yeah, there was probably a subconscious influence going on there in regards to yandere!England. At least she's civil towards people who do like America/England, and usually just treats England as America's father figure or pairs him off with France.
Stalker!Anon: If we're talking about the same author, she has actually said multiple times that she hated America/England. :/ It's sad because I like both pairings and her stories are generally not bad but her attitude to and treatment of England and America/England just ruins them for me.
Solandra: Yeah, I really do think she's an excellent writer and I especially like her gen fics, but her disparagement of America/England prevents me from fully getting into her Russia/America fics because I keep on seeing subtle America/England backlash in them even if it wasn't meant to be there. I understand people not liking America/England because they think of it as more of a brotherly or father/son relationship or that England's feelings are one-sided or even because they've got a boatload of emotional issues, but her statement that England is only idealizing America makes me tempted to comment over there to ask if we're talking about the same England here (you know, the England who constantly complains about America and his harebrained plans?). And her saying that she writes England as getting over his crush on America or being in love with France instead because she'd hate him otherwise...yeah, I probably won't go there again.
And I really, really hope that her going from being okay with America/England or at least not hating it enough to avoid writing fluff for it to empathically hating it wasn't mainly because she thought that her growing love of Russia/America meant that she had to turn on the main opposing ship. Because my esteem of her would go down the tubes if that was the case.
Count Dorku: Re: the Scarlet Witch/Vision/Wonder Man example: there's one minor problem. Someone appears to have deleted a link to some other trope (probably due to cutting), without being able to spare the time to fix the example. It features the phrase "Busiek pulled a "" by having Wonder Man [rest of paragraph not really relevant]". Anyone remember what it was, or be willing to guess what?
Dragon Quest Z: Likely "I Am Not Making This Up". Now in this case the paragraph is relevant. Does it refer to the writer telling the audience this is true? If so, you can replace it with "Not Making This Up" Disclaimer. If not, then just adjust the paragraph.
—
Orihime: Deleted the whole Love Hina example for becoming an uber-example of the trope. Naru/Keitarou fan, when you whine about Motoko fanboys bashing your poor Naru while going to almost insane lengths to "prove" how utterly horrible you think Motoko is, you've just showed yourself as being as dumb as the ones you complain about.
- The egregious Character Exaggeration that she goes through in the anime, where her Tsundere behavior is amped up to the point of making her abusive towards Keitaro, doesn't help Naru's case at all.
- Some Keitaro/Motoko fans get quite hypocritical about this: they hate Naru for beating up Keitaro, but they throw laurels on Motoko, who behaves the exact same way. They miss the point that any and all slapstick that goes on in the series is being played for laughs.
- Naru does sometimes go beyond Comedic Sociopathy and basically beats up Keitarou for existing and/or when she knows he's innocent of what he's accused for, something that Motoko hasn't done (she does apologize to Keitarou more than once when the misunderstands are cleared up). In those cases, even the slapstick reasons wear thin, and Naru comes off less as a Tsundere haremette and more like a domestic abuser who bullies a helpless Keitarou no matter what he does. Goddammit, Flanderization, not even Akane Tendō was that bad.
- There's also the fact that Motoko's behavior can be seen under the light of her relationship with her sister Tsuruko, which conditioned her view of males and relationships quite a bit ( Tsuruko left the way of the sword to get married, Motoko is troubled because of that). Whereas Naru doesn't have a clear reason to treat Keitarou the way she does aside of her Tsundere mood swings... So Yeah.
- Which, of course, is completely overlooking the fact that Motoko, at first, was the most dismissive of Keitaro and kept hating him for longer than the other girls (Kaolla never did, Shinobu, kind soul that she is, forgave him as soon as he proved himself, Kitsune and Naru took a little bit longer, but just a little). Oh, and the fact that Motoko tried a potentially-lethal technique by using Keitaro as a target (Volume 5). Just say it, Motoko fanboys. You give her a pass because she's a Hot Chick with a Sword and poor Naru isn't.
Rogue 7: heh. This discussion is amusing. I like Naru well enough, but Keitaro can have her. I want Motoko all to myself. Boom, shipping war solved.
Justice Gundam: I was the one to add the Motoko "demonization", which I didn't really intend to come off as such, and I will answer to that. I also happen to like Motoko, and it was not my intention to bash her. My intention was to show her fans that she, like most characters in the anime/manga, falls in the same Comedic Sociopathy behaviour as well. And despite that, fans of the manga don't hate her for beating up Keitaro, while they rant and cuss at Naru for as much as looking at Keitaro funny. My peeve was not with Motoko, it was with the fact that, because Motoko is an Action Girl, and because according to some fans Real Women Never Wear Dresses, her behaviour towards Keitaro is overlooked and/or seen as funny, while Naru gets all the heat for punching the guy.
And, yes, I did acknowledge that Motoko's attitude towards Keitaro changed with Character Development. But yes, I guess I did not come clear on what I was trying to say, and I apologize for that.
Thesunisup: Removed the nattery bits of the Hetalia example, because it reads like people are actively trying to shoehorn the trope onto the series. The trope is Die for Our Ship, not Behave Slightly Out Of Character For Our Ship. The deleted section ran as follows:
- While the majority of Russia/America fans don't hate England (he's a pretty popular character in fandom), he tends to be placed in a negative role when included in their fics. It's usually mild, with him disliking their relationship because of his paternal or romantic feelings for America but not going crazy over it, but some fics depict him as actively hating Russia out of jealousy or even America for breaking away from him (instead of just being Tsundere towards him, as he is in canon), or being creepily possessive of America in a manner more suited for Russia, going so far as to torture him in a few fics even though America is far physically stronger than him.
- A more subdued example is the portrayal of Austria in some Prussia/Hungary fanwork. Since the Austria/Hungary Official Couple can be very easily seen as an Arranged Marriage due to the Austro-Hungarian Compromise
, some P/H fans basically twist Austria into a sort-of Kichiku Megane, portraying him as cold and neglectful of Hungary's emotional needs to the point of abuse so she can be justified into seeking out comfort in Prussia's arms and cheating on her husband with him. They don't go so far as to make Austria beat the Hell out of Hungary (who's still physically stronger than he is, anyway), but they "forget" that they get along pretty well even after their "divorce"...
- Even Hungary, normally embraced by fans for being a Hot Amazon and Yaoi Fangirl, isn't 100% free of this. There are at least two Germany/Austria fics where she's portrayed as a Clingy Jealous Girl who breaks the Austro-Hungarian compromise solely because Austria pays less attention to her than she wants to. Seems somebody hasn't read the Anschluss and/or Valentines strips, huh?
- A more subdued version is having Hungary only as the local Yaoi Fangirl who loves watching others hit on Austria, but neglecting to have them interact in a more personal/romantic way. That brings out quite a bit of Unfortunate Implications: having a woman hang out with the slashable guys is okay as long as she doesn't dare to set her eyes on a guy she's canonly intrested on, because her only acceptable "role" is to serve as the Otaku Surrogate and possible Possession Sue that fangirls can use to project themselves on her. Fan Dumb, much?
- The Ship-to-Ship Combat between Russia/Lithuania and Poland/Lithuania shippers has fallen more than once into this. The most rabid Poland/Lithuania shippers portray Russia as a Complete Monster who beats and rapes Lithuania For the Evulz (cashing on his status as a Memetic Molester), and the most vocal Russia/Lithuania fans take Poland's initial selfishness to Flanderization extremes.
- In Russia's case, though, he's a canon Psychopathic Manchild and Yandere who almost certainly scarred Lithuania, and many Russia/Lithuania fics portray their relationship as twisted and unhealthy. It can be hard to tell if a writer who depicts Russia as being horribly abusive toward Lithuania is doing so out of shipping preferences or is simply trying to adhere to Russia's canon characterization.
- The problem is, Russia is quite more complex than that. He is a Psychopathic Manchild, yeah, but on the other hand he one really heartbreaking Start of Darkness ("Bloody Sunday", anyone?) that Lithuania himself witnessed, and once in a while he's shown to more or less care for Liet himself and for Ukraine (he was remarkably stable in the manga volume where she's introduced). Making Russia a Complete Monster is horribly simplistic, and not to mention some Poland/Liet fans seem to view Lithuania less as a genuine Woobie but as a whiny, weepy Sympathetic Sue who martirizes himself and can only be rescued from Russia's abuse by Poland.
- Another quite mild and recent example is Belarus, whose status as a Yandere stalker of the stalker is played heavily for laughs in the series (and is what earns her fans), but more serious fics with Russia pairings take this and exaggerate it to Complete Monster levels.
Ulla: Except England depicted as a sick yandere towards America, Austria as wife-beater or Poland as a selfish asshole in order to facilitate "rival" pairings is not "slightly out of character" it's VERY out of character and qualifies as Die for Our Ship. The phenomenon is present in the fandom. Edit the entry if you want but there's no reason to remove it entirely.
Solandra: Er, does anyone know what's up with the folder system suddenly not working for the examples? I tried fixing it, but got no results (at least from the preview page).
And I can't help but notice that if this article keeps on expanding, we're eventually going to have to create subpages for this trope. Which is kind of depressing when you think about it.
Barano: Seconding the WTF about the folder system.
Anonymous Mc Cartneyfan: We'd better make those subpages or else do some pruning. The folders break when the page gets too long.
