Hello! I'm new here, but I've been visiting this page periodically. I understand your point and I agree with you. In fact, in the main page for Super Mario Odyssey it is said that the whole point is to preserve the status quo, and I considered it a plausible reason for the infamous "rejection". Plus, Nintendo already made Peach "stronger" in earlier games. In Super Mario 3D Land, unlike Odyssey, she attempts to escape (yet she still appreciates Mario). In Super Mario 3D World and Mario+Rabbids Kingdom Battle, she is playable (with nearly the same abilities as Mario and friends) and never gets kidnapped, now that's a stronger Peach. I would personally say that Peach "regressed" in Odyssey, not before that game. Even in her "journeys", she just stands still in a specific place (often one that's hard to reach, but we never see her reaching it, plus she doesn't wear Tiara, unlike Mario wearing Cappy, she wears independent hats, if any), says something dull about the kingdom, gives a Power Moon to Mario and hints about the next place she will visit. This is not proactive enough to me.
In fact, the Author's Saving Throw entry is not the only one we both should worry about. There's also that Rescued from the Scrappy Heap one, which paints Peach in almost the same way. Sure, there was criticism towards Peach for her constant Damsel in Distress status, but still, the whole entry is too biased as far as I'm concerned. The game's ending caused one huge backlash within the fandom, many people began to disapprove of Peach, going as far as to outrighr hate her for her actions. She got praise for her ending/post-game-content portrayal, though, but from those infamous SJW's who even insist on calling Mario a "creep" (they don't even criticise Bowser who was also jealously fighting her affections), and their newfound praise isn't enough to make Peach more accepted than before. At best, Peach is still loved by the same amount of people, yet the entry says "Peach gained new fans in the process" or something like that. And the part when it's said that "her changing costumes made her a stronger woman", I disagre because the outfits she chose in the game actually seem to enforce a negative stereotype towards women. Personally, I think Peach would've seemed more "self-reliant" if she travelled around the world wearing fewer, less flamboyand outfits, like a real-life traveller.
There's also the "totally helpless in the main quest" thing, SJ Ws seem to ignore it, or if they don't, they ignore the levels in badass she took in games before Odyssey (the aforementioned 3D World and Mario+Rabbids).
Lastly, the structure (something along the lines of "Peach has become a stronger, independent woman who rejects Mario's proposal and goes on her own adventures") was recycled almost verbatim for entries regarding Peach's portrayal in Odyssey in Base-Breaking Character and Character Derailment, and that made me disapprove of such a point of view even further. If the ones who wrote those entries are definitely not SJ Ws, well, they could end up being mistaken for ones.
That's merely my point of view on that issue. If I extended too much, I'm sorry.
Edited by ProtectorOfTheUniverse
I hold the opinion that we shouldn't take these scenes too seriously. They are all in the name of good fun. If SJWs misconstrue, deliberately or not, a scene; that's on them. I just don't want this website to become a discussion arena for gender politics. The Mario series has never been about gender politics, so there is no reason to believe Odyssey will make a statement.
Edited by MasterHero
"I hold the opinion that we shouldn't take these scenes too seriously." Actually, me too. (that is, I don't take that scene too seriously, in fact, I don't really like that particular scene, seemed so Shocking Swerve to me).
"The Mario series has never been about gender politics, so there is no reason to believe Odyssey will make a statement." Well, I must admit you really have a point, Master Hero, so, why is the Rescued from the Scrappy Heap entry still there (even though it's a YMMV page)? It seems so "gender politics" to me. Just saying...
Ambassador of Eurogames and Touhou Music
From the Ron the Death Eater entry: " some even completely misconstrued the scene of Peach boarding the Odyssey as her deliberately leaving Mario and Bowser behind on the moon, even though she shouted to them, "Let's go home" as the ship was taking off". Isn't it a valid interpretation that she originally intended to take off without them, but changed her mind and told them to join her on the ship? There's also the theoretically possible - but unlikely - interpretation that she never changed her mind and the "let's go home" was intended as a taunt.
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That just reeks of complaining and having an overall negative opinion of her actions.
... I think you're sort of exemplifying why this is an example.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Neither of you explained why the first interpretation I posted was wrong (the second one is highly improbable, so I won't bother discussing that one further). I know it's a negative interpretation of Peach's actions, but that doesn't automatically make it wrong. You have to actually disprove it. Are there for instance any Word of God statements that prove it wrong?
Edited by MathsAngelicVersion
Given that Mario and Peach still get along, the ending scene was done as it was to preserve the Status Quo, and the Mario series is notorious for its Negative Continuity, I think the "taking off without Mario and change her mind afterwards" is the most logical interpretation. I don't think she would want Bowser in, though, after all, he forced her into marriage, she wouldn't want to go back home with the one who tormented her. And let's not forget that Cappy and Tiara went with Peach in the ship, if Peach wanted to taunt Mario, wouldn't Cappy be in on the "joke"? Quite out-of-character for Mario's sidekick in this adventure... (By the way, I'm aware you said that it was unlikely)
Do people really think that the caveman costume is a Grand Dad reference? Or are they just joking? From what I've seen, I'd say that it's the latter. And also, do we have to mention that it's a coincidence under Hilarious in Hindsight? I thought that examples had to be coincidental.
If anyone's wondering what happened with those multiple edits I made, I accidentally hit enter a bunch of times when I was trying to hit backspace. I was going to say that we should either not type anything below the blocked-out entry, or just plain get rid of it.
Ray the Demon
So.. who here would like Luigi to be playable like he was in 64 DS and Galaxy? I just think he should be, because I feel as if, even with the Year of Luigi, attention isn't on him as well. It's called Super Mario Brothers with an S for a reason, imo. And if this was to be added as a trope in YMMV, what would it be under?
Edited by The_Cosmic_Troper The Cosmic Troper, here to trope like nobody's business! Hide / Show Replies
I'd personally wait until the game's out before adding anything regarding Luigi. IIRC, Luigi wasn't advertised as being playable in Galaxy and it wasn't until the game was out before people learned that he was in it. It could be the same regarding Odyssey.
Edited by chasemaddigan
Alright. I shall.
And I hope that's the case. Poor Luigi has been out of the action for a while now, hasn't he? or have I missed a few games?
The Cosmic Troper, here to trope like nobody's business!
From Author's Saving Throw:
Sure, but she's totally helpless in the main game. She doesn't even try to escape when Bowser is busy dealing with Mario. I strongly suspect that Nintendo had her reject Mario's proposal to preserve the status quo — not to make her a stronger character. As for her exploring the different kingdoms with Tiara on her own terms, that's easily explained: Nintendo wanted more Power Moons in the game.
Edited by MathsAngelicVersion Hide / Show Replies