Discussion YMMV / StarTrekPicard

The phrasing isn't good, but I think the sentiment is valid. Picard is notably grittier than previous series, DS9 included, as both a commentary on post-9/11 politics and an exploration of how the galaxy works outside the borders of The Federation, and it can result in a lot of Angst Aversion. I know the decision to fridge Icheb and Hugh turned a lot of Trekkies off the show.

Maybe someone could write it a little less Nostalgia Filter and reductive?

No offence, but you realise how this is an YMMV trope? As long as there are enough people who think this then the trope is relevant.

Either way, you've missed the point behind DS 9. Earth was established to be a paradise is TOS and TNG - here we see forces such as Section 31 and men like Sisko who have to do dark things to keep paradise going otherwise it'll fall.

PIC is about how paradise has fallen. And this was a deliberate choice by Patrick Stewart as a response to Brexit and Trump. His words.

Do you see the subtle difference? The former is about deconstructing paradise, the latter is about how paradise is dead.

Paradise isn't dead, just not in great shape. Starfleet does come though in the end after all. And even YMMV entries have to have their facts right; the original phrasing is very oversimplified.

How about this:

• Too Bleak, Stopped Caring: Picard is notably grittier than previous series, DS9 included, and while there is plenty of humor, the Federation's depiction as being past its prime and turning increasingly to Realpolitik, and the deaths of fan-favorite characters Icheb and Hugh, turned a lot of Trekkies off the show.

That’s better

Too Bleak, Stopped Caring is about stories in which all factions involved in the main conflict are equally unlikeable (like a pedophiliac serial killer vs a genocidal slave trader) or when the heroes' efforts ultimately amount to nothing and the universe still sucks. If a story features clearly defined heroes and villains and the ending delivers a positive outcome; then no, it doesn't count. Just check this out.

If anything, the complaints about the show being dark are better-suited for Angst Aversion.

While the characters in Picard "save the day", unmasking (but not stopping) one corrupting influence and saving one colony of tentacle-summoning androids, it was not a story about saving or redeeming the Federation, nor was it about improving very much of anything. Starfleet only took the first step in the final episode. We still have season 2...

Even so, there is still hope.

When you make a story that is intentionally a hate piece against Brexit and Trump (again, this is what Stewart has stated he was making) instead of just a story with mature themes then people are going to hate it on principle regardless.

Like Steam_Lord said, this wasn't a story about redeeming anything. This was a story about how the real world sucks with Star Trek skin. Star Trek has always been political (TOS and TNG was influenced by the Cold War, Deep Space 9 by the IRA, ENT by 9/11). But in those cases it was always about how we as a society can rise above these things instead of poking fun.

Sure, go ahead.

I agree, previous series have shown that the Star Trek universe is pretty gritty once you get outside the Federation. This show is very much in keeping with that, it's just that it's a modern show so they can get away with more on screen. And from what we see, the Federation itself is still going strong, it's just got a bit more Realpolitik going on behind the scenes (which is, again, hardly unprecedented).

I see it as there being no characters that embody a full attempt at good. The previous series were all about dignity, trying to be better, and moral convictions, even if the characters did not have the right answer.

Picard is a doormat. He sort of tricked a man who looked up to him into killing a guy and then was merely cross about the murder. His crew is made up of broken individuals. A group of Romulan cultists have infiltrated the Federation, got a large portion of their own people incinerated, and banned synths with the intent of getting rid of the rest. Everybody swears now.

It is not about the darkness of the show, it is how the characters react to it. Which is poorly.

We can hardly blame Picard. He gave up, resigned from Starfleet and waited to die. He had been out of touch for so long that when the chance came to do something, he took it. No, he definitely didn't handle things well but he's trying to find his footing. He made mistakes and he got a metaphorical kick in the ass every time.

In my opinion, he didn't trick anyone into killing that ex-Senator, he was just sick and tired of the racist crap the Romulans were pulling.

Assuming that the cultists were responsible for the attack on Mars, they're responsible the deaths of 92000+ on Mars colony alone and the displacement of millions of people. Even if they were trying to save lives, they've let the ends justify the means and that's wrong.

Everybody swears, yes, but so what? I swear. This series is available via a streaming service, not network television, so the rules are different.

I do agree that some of the character's reactions have been very poor. There's no excuse for Raffi not doing a background check on Jurati or Rios not checking his own ship's records when Maddox died. But you know what? They're not perfect. They're people who are trying to do the right thing and make mistakes. Sound familiar? I make mistakes.

The point is, they're trying and not giving up. Giving up is what Picard did. He realized he was wrong to do so and is now doing his best to make up for it.

I've always believed that Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy only applies when "both sides in the conflict are equally unlikeable" or "the heroes' efforts amount to nothing and the universe still sucks" and if the story features clearly defined heroes and villains and delivers a positive outcome, then the trope would be averted. Since the story is just getting started, I think it's too early to tell if the tropes applies.

Here here. We still have three episodes to go and the last two are a two-parter. I think we should look at the first five episodes as world building. After all, the last time we saw that particular Star Trek continuity was back in 2002; eighteen years ago.

A lot has happened since then. People change for better or worse. They get older. Some even die. Other events take place. We, the audience, need time to get to know these characters and know what the current state of affairs are. After that, we had better hang on to our hats because I get the feeling that things are about to get a little thrilling.

At the very least, Seven is about to have a very rough day. I just hope she has control of the cube and not vice-versa.

Cut per https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/query.php?parent_id=94369&type=att

• Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy: The Federation no longer holds the moral high ground after abandoning the Romulan rescue effort and banning synthetic lifeforms inside its space, a major world (Mars) is rendered uninhabitable openly and on-screen, beloved side characters are tortured to death in graphic detail, and the idea of a better future is being strained to the breaking point. As a result, viewers may find it difficult to care about what happens to anyone. The season one finale walks some of this back, with Starfleet coming to the rescue of the synths on Coppelius and the Federation repealing the ban on synthetics, but for some viewers that's too little, too late, not to mention coming across as tone-deaf and insincere.

DIAA requires all sides be equally unlivable and the setting has seemingly no chance of improving, neither of which apply here.

Yeah that just seems to be complaining. Those shows had dark moments too but things did end well later. Plus the season isn't even over yet so making a judgement call is jumping the gun.