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227someguy I hate spoilers Since: Jul, 2018
I hate spoilers
Dec 21st 2020 at 3:26:11 PM •••

I have to ask about the whole Base-Breaking Character topic. The main page for that trope says there are several prerequisites that someone must fall into for qualification. Do all of the characters listed in YMMV really count?

Everyone look at my sandbox Hide / Show Replies
MrJIR93 Since: Jun, 2015
Mar 16th 2021 at 5:24:32 PM •••

Honestly I think it needs a bit of cleaning up, a lot of the entries are less about the character and more about things related to said characters.

DanteVin Since: Jul, 2016
Mar 16th 2021 at 9:08:36 PM •••

While I'm no longer an active GBF player and I don't think I can edit much on TV Tropes nowadays (and no longer frequently edit GBF trope pages), I am surprised to see a recent Discussion regarding this YMMV page, so I'll try to help in answering this.

Anyway, here's a long answer because I already trimmed some of these trope examples before (This YMMV page was very bloated back then because of Word Cruft. Most of these Base-Breaking Character examples had longer context or explanations than what we have now.)

I contributed most to the entries of Belial, Lowain Bros, Nier, Lobelia and Satyr more than a year, or years ago IIRC. GBF Reddit and Twitter are (or were) two of the platforms where you can find supporters and haters of these characters voicing out their opinions against each other on the same post depending on the topic. Though on Reddit, you'd sometimes have to sort through controversial or the downvoted comments and posts to see them in effect. I think some of the opinions are also shared on Discord.

  • "Playable Belial" is the longest one I observed, you have one side that sees Belial as the perfect villain that's impossible to side with the heroes lore-wise, while others want him playable already because he's popular, even if he did questionable stuff, and regardless of lore implications. He's compared to Sandy because the latter is an example of a redeemed breakout villain who seemed to have been redeemed in a later story just because WMTSB1 was popular in the fandom.
  • Nier is another hot topic - Some vocal players are put off by her Yandere trope and her act of killing several boyfriends and an entire village, while others do like a new Yandere character, or a new character with a grim backstory, and that her stories perhaps justified or explained her as a tragic character. A common argument from anti-Nier players is "you like Nier just because she's cute", especially because she's also a fan-favorite. Lobelia is also lumped together with the Nier debates because of their similarities.
  • Lowain Bros is mostly tied to how they pop up a lot in events. Usually, a common complaint was "Ugh, another Lowain event." Some like a comic relief character though regardless. Their "delusions" are mostly seen as an overused plot point while others don't mind it.
  • Satyr is mostly about an ambiguous line regarding her during an event that spawned the Futa joke in the fandom. On one hand, the "incomprehensible characteristics" line might mean that it's possible, while detractors say that the Futa joke is overblown and that people are thinking way too much over one line. I think you can Google some Reddit posts regarding this.

While I only noticed the "Draph Forte" debates last year, it looked like those were already discussed by GBF veterans the moment when she was released. One side tried to find justifications on her Race change, others say Forte changing to a Draph doesn't make sense.

Reactions toward Kumbhira (regarding the "Gyaru" expectations stuff) and Catura (regarding her "pandering to male otakus" trope stuff) were also controversial or have split the English fandom before, but there are YMMV tropes that already fit those better IMO.

I can't say much about the Lucifer, Sandalphon, Yuel and Societte examples because they were added and mostly edited by other tropers.

@MrJIR93, regarding "entries are less about the character and more about things related to said characters", I think they still apply though, because on the Base-Breaking Character page, it says "Sometimes they just highlight existing divisions within the fanbase", which is linked to the Broken Base trope. I interpret the "highlight existing divisions" as things related to said characters, or any divisive topic regarding the character anyway.

With Great Power, Comes Great Motivation
DanteVin [[Memes/DevilMayCry The Time Has Come]] Since: Jul, 2016
[[Memes/DevilMayCry The Time Has Come]]
Aug 9th 2019 at 9:31:43 AM •••

So, going in the Granblue Reddit in this post here (https://www.reddit.com/r/Granblue_en/comments/cnf024/psa_niers_backrow_passive_works_on_everything/), people take a lot of flak on Nier's entry under the Tier Induced Scrappy trope, as it appears as though she is the worst Evoker... When in fact, she is a strong offensive character and her passive of keeping the Captain alive is a strong bonus in HL Raids + She was featured in the 11 Ougis in 1 turn demo during the 2019 Summer Stream.

I may have indeed forgot to fact-check this one thoroughly during the time I'm cleaning up grammar, adding context and fixing formatting issues on this page...

What do we do with this entry? I bet both the JP and ENG fandoms of Granblue have agreed since then that Nier is so strong that her 13 stacks are just there to compensate how top-tier she is... Or is deleting the entry the easiest and best solution for now?

With Great Power, Comes Great Motivation
DanteVin [[Memes/DevilMayCry The Time Has Come]] Since: Jul, 2016
[[Memes/DevilMayCry The Time Has Come]]
Mar 5th 2019 at 3:04:42 AM •••

Would it be safe to conclude now that there is a Broken Base / Base-Breaking Character entry for Belial? There have been heated discussions in the Western fandom (in Reddit for example) regarding his playability status. Do note that this started since last year, after he was the villain of "Paradise Lost".

The pro-playable Belial says:

  • He's turned into an Ensemble Dark Horse now that whenever a WMTSB event runs, expect an influx of Belial fanarts on Pixiv.
  • He is featured in the banner for Granblue Fes 2018, who is unexpected for a villain
  • They expect him to become redeemable in the end, much like what happened to Sandalphon, and that Belial could be a Breakout Character / money-maker if Cygames makes more merchandise out of him.

The anti-playable Belial says:

  • His attitude and personality would be a turn-off when he interacts with the crew. He's a pervert who would be molesting other characters in his Fate Episodes or when you think about the crew's past-times.
  • That Cygames is outright making him an irredeemable villain. While Sandy is seen as someone with "daddy issues" or "existential crisis" who just needs friends, Belial is outright evil from the get-go on, acting on his own will. His intentions are unknown even by most of his former allies and he could be a worse case of The Mole when Olivia already fits that trope among the Fallen Angels. Likewise, Belial has shown signs of being a Satan Archetype for Granblue.
  • As WMTSB3 shows, Belial has a Chronic Backstabbing Disorder trope. He might betray the crew someday. Additionally, the ending for the event's first half has him say "This time. It really is goodbye" implying that he may be Killed Off for Real, and his wounds won't regenerate any more.

Or, should we wait until the finale of WMTSB3 and observe the fandom's reactions?

Edited by DanteVin With Great Power, Comes Great Motivation Hide / Show Replies
Nouct Since: Sep, 2014
Mar 5th 2019 at 4:22:51 AM •••

Definitely wait for WMTSB 3 and the anniversary stream to see what happens with him.

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