Regarding the Anvilicious page would it be okay to add that You shouldn’t judge someone without actually knowing them? Because I kinda think that this is also a very big issue in the show in regards to some of the rivalries and other negative relationships.
- I actually have some examples:
- Daniel thought that Miguel was a bully in Season 1 & 2 because of his actions at the tournament and because he was in Cobra Kai, but when he actually talked to him in Season 3 he realized that Miguel is actually a good kid who just got negativity influenced.
- Another example would be Amanda who thought that Tory is a psychopath because she attacked Sam, which was definitely Disproportionate Retribution, but she did change her tone when she learned about Tory’s home life and decided to set her up with a Therapist so she can get her life on track and Amanda’s actions put Tory on the path to a Heel–Face Turn.
- Tory and Sam as well as Robby and Miguel are also good examples. Sam doesn’t know Tory as well as she thinks and believes that the story about her home situation is actually a Cassandra Truth and Tory actually doesn’t know Sam very well either. Robby actually doesn’t know Miguel and their rivalry is entirely based on negative first impressions, miscommunications and jealousy.
Counselor Blatt's entry for The Scrappy says she is meant to be hated by design. If that's the case, can she still be a Scrappy?
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I'm pretty sure that counts as Hate Sink, not as The Scrappy, because it can't be considered intended for them to be hated
That’s a Hate Sink but counselor blatt isn’t really a hate sink. She’s more incompetent and not really meant to be hated but more disliked. I feel it needs to be more to be a Hate Sink
Edited by Furygildeman
Well, Counselor Blatt is clearly meant to be hated, and there's plenty of Hate Sink examples that aren't exactly malicious people, more for being incompetent and a burden for the main characters.
Either way, if Counselor Blatt isn't enough to be considered a Hate Sink, I would say she's neither a Hate Sink nor The Scrappy.
I would only call her a Scrappy if people hate her "the wrong way", as in just find the character annoying rather than hating her for being incompetent, which I haven't seen any evidence of, so I would cut her unless anyone disagrees?
I feel like the Unintentionally Sympathetic and Unintentionally Unsympathetic entries could use a cleanup. This show has a lot of Both Sides Have a Point and Good vs. Good, and these entries seem to call out every tiny occasion that a "good" character does something bad or vice versa.
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I agree with this. These entries are mostly people Complaining About Characters They Dont Like. Rather than looking at a situation rationally, these entries seem to pick a side and downplay the wrong doings of that side and while emphasizing the wrongdoings of the other side and downplaying any sympathetic moments to an exaggerated extent. In other words these seem very bias.
Starting with Unintentionally Sympathetic:
- Daniel: First bullet makes some good points about Daniel's bullying being downplayed, the rest is nattery. Keep but shorten.
- Hawk: Seems to me like a deliberate Kick The Son Of A Bitch moment. You can think Brucks is a prick who deserves it while still worrying about what it means for Hawk's mental state. Leaning towards cut.
- Miguel: Miguel is portrayed as heroic in this scene, the only thing Johnny calls him out on is hitting Hawk again after he's already down, which seems fair to me. Leaning towards cut.
- Sam: Definite cut. Cheating on someone is clearly wrong, even if they lied to you, and this isn't a remotely common opinion in the fanbase anyway.
Unintentionally Unsympathetic:
- Demetri: This is very biased. The only time Demetri "verbally antagonizes" Cobra Kai is when he outs Hawk as a bed-wetter, long after Hawk has tried to beat him up. The Kreese example is also pretty ridiculous, considering he got punched in the face by a fully grown adult just for touching his arm. Rewrite to mention how some fans felt outing Hawk's secrets was Disproportionate Retribution, cut everything else.
- Sam: Clearly a deliberate case of Both Sides Have a Point, especially since the premise of the show is that Daniel wasn't an angel in the movie. Cut.
- Tory and Hawk: Both fair, but could be rewritten to be less bashy towards their characters.
- Johnny: This is fair, a lot of fans have complained that Johnny is too neglectful towards Robby.
- Amanda: Grounding your child for not telling you they were involved in a car crash is an entirely reasonable response that any parent would make. Cut.
- Robby: Robby is meant to be unsympathetic, as this is his Face–Heel Turn and he hasn't taken responsibility for his actions. Cut
Does this show really need its own page for Ron the Death Eater? As far as I can see, it only mentions 4 characters and the only reason it's so long is because Sam's entry is a Wall of Text.
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It probably can be shortned, reading over it. Even more, I think , Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment needs to be applied to YMMV and maybe to some other pages. YMMV is supposed to be subjective from the audience, but people may be adding their own personal opinions about aspects and characters of the show. The last thing we want is it turning into Cobra Kai vs Miyagi-Do like every other space on the internet.
Edited by SOSRadio7
I'm a little confused by the removal of Shannon Keane's Unintentionally Unsympathetic entry. The Moral Event Horizon one I get, but the justification for the change to UU is that Shannon was clearly intended to be unsympathetic. That's not really true. If she was clearly unsympathetic, there wouldn't be any debate about it. Ultimately, she's not called-out for her actions appropriately enough for this to be intentional, her "Reason You Suck" Speech to Johnny is meant to make her seem like she's the better parent, and she is also intended to be pitied in some ways.
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Shannon's constantly portrayed as a selfish Gold Digger who gets in the way of Johnny's genuine attempts to rebuild his relationship with Robby. She only starts to be portrayed sympathetically when she goes to rehab and tells Robby she was wrong about Johnny, and her criticism of Johnny's parenting is an isolated moment of Hypocrite Has a Point.
Edited by Hfxjfrvnn
Is the Unintentionally Unsympathetic entry for Miguel a common complaint in the fanbase? Cause this is the first I've heard of anyone not liking him in Season 2.
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Yeah I don't think that's a popular opinion. The Miguel entry stretching, especially with how it blames him for Sam kissing him because "he was looking at her lips". Personally, I think it should be removed or at least toned down.
I AM KING OF THE BEACH!!
Can we make a page for Some Anvils Need to be Draopped?
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Probably a good idea, I think we also need to clean up the examples because a lot of them don't really seem like "anvils".
Is it safe to say that burning down Mike Barnes’s furniture store is Terry Silver’s Moral Event Horizon? I’d say he fully crossed the line right then and there.