The Man with the Chainsaw
It would be out of place to create an Idiot Ball page? I mean:
1.- Godzilla attacks an industrial facillity THEN HE GOES AWAY, instead of keep walking into the land. He clearly had some motives to attack there. Everybody just though that "Godzilla has gone bad" so the story could advance.
2.- Monarch has experience in the previous film with the ORCA device that can manipulate the emotions of the Kaiju. They should have sent their finest investigators to the place. Instead, Monarch's people only sat down and put worried faces
3.- Monarch facilities on Skull Island only have ONE purpose: Watch Kong. Somehow, they failed to see that Kong is able to communicate in ASL. What were they watching?
4.- Monarch is inspecting and monitoring the entire world, trying to keep the Kaijus under control. Somehow, they didn't noticed Godzilla until he was REALLY CLOSE.
5.- Even if Kong is playing dead, Godzilla can somehow be fooled that Kong isn't any near, because he's flying with some helicopters instead of being on a carrier ship.
6.- Somehow, Apex kept the entrance to their super-super secret lab completly unguarded. Any boring office has more security than the high tech lab where The Conspiracy plains to Rule the World. It's not like an adult nutcase, and two teenage nutcases could infiltrate into, is it?
7.- I know that it is a homage to EVA-00's rampage in the lab, but how could Walter Simmons fail to notice that a Humongous Mecha was roaring in his direction? If anything, he should be watching as his creation finally activates!
8.- Mechagodzilla's power is shut down because they tampered the keyboard of a computer. Monitor Equals Computer??
9.- Dr Russell, one of the most powerful men in the world, and one of the heads of Monarch, loses his daughter. He doesn't move a finger, he didn't even phone her!
10.- After Godzilla, Kong and Mechagodzilla fight, everybody starts running around the city. THE DESTROYED CITY. After two movies, everybody should know that kaijus are DANGEROUS and shouldn't hang out near a sleeping one. Yet everybody were only some yards from those two.
Edited by Souhiro Kick Back! Hide / Show Replies
A nice list but some of those I'd say don't count:
3. Number 3 I'd say was properly explained. Dr. Ilene Andrews states she spent a lot of time teaching Kong sign language. It's just that while she believed he showed understanding of it, he never signed back to her (Jia explaining that Kong did not want her to know he had learned it).
5. Godzilla associated the sound of the ships with Kong, but he would have no such association with the helicopters. And since Kong was pretty much unconscious he wouldn't be inadvertently alerting Godzilla either.
7. To my memory it wasn't roaring as it moved toward him, indeed it was being surprisingly quiet. He'd already seen Mecha Godzilla activate many times, so he decided to turn around and monologue before the fighting commenced.
8. That didn't shut down the power, it basically produced some interference with the satellite signal for a few seconds, causing Mecha Godzilla to freeze up momentarily. It was still on and activated, but the signals to make it move were interfered with.
9. There is a scene showing he phoned her MANY times, she just didn't answer him.
5 of 10, it is...
Since english is not my native language, could anybody correct all my mistakes in the first post?
And at least, we can assume that much like Gendou implanted the Adam, Monarch did have the Idiot Ball implanted in their hands!
Kick Back!
I would suggest rewording it to something like:
Considering Mechagodzilla's merchandise has officially been released and it's even briefly appeared in the trailers, should it get a character page folder?
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It's techincally part of Kevin Ghidorah, so it's not necessary. However, we do need to change the naming since the official subtiles uses Mechagodzilla, not MechaGodzilla.
Spell My Name With An S would be applicable, then, since the official merchandise uses MechaGodzilla. Also, just because it's connected to and eventually hijacked by King Ghidorah doesn't necessarily mean they should be put on the same page. Legacy Character and Hijacked by Ganon have it covered, in my opinion. And after all, Kiryu isn't on the Godzilla page despite being built around the skeleton of and possessed by the original Godzilla.
This is the sort of move that should have been discussed beforehand instead of being affected without so much as an editing reason.
Edited by Arawn999
Ok if you're making something invisible, discuss here please, some of the ones I just re-added were valid. But I probably got carried away, so.. Discuss:
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The Godzilla Threshold example was made invisible, though it seems a clear-cut example to me and I carefully phrased it to attempt to avoid speculative troping. "We need Kong, the world needs him, to stop what's coming." is a prominent trailer line, and taking Kong off Skull Island (something that has never gone well in Kong's history, and certainly involved great difficulty, danger, and expense) to fight whatever the threat is (heavily implied to be rogue Godzilla, though there's some ambiguity about that) seems an open-and-shut example of "things are so bad unleashing a giant monster can't possibly make them worse." Whether or not Kong is being brought out to specifically fight Godzilla or not, with the trailer stating humanity believes Godzilla is attacking them for no reason, the belief that they cannot rely on Godzilla to restore balance this time and have to look elsewhere for a kaiju savior fits Godzilla Threshold well, in my mind.
If this is lacking in context. . . can someone explain precisely why? I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to up my troping skills.
Edited by ErikModi
Cut the following:
- Darker and Edgier: To the original King Kong vs. Godzilla. The 1962 film was a Lighter and Softer take with both monsters being portrayed in a humorous light (King Kong Can't Hold His Liquor, while Godzilla in general became less of a symbol of nuclear weapons). Other than the fact the Monsterverse strives to keep a real-world tone, the first trailer establishes that in this film Godzilla is intentionally attacking humans and trying to face Kong in a duel to the death, but no one knows why.
Speculation. The film is not out, therefore we can't say what the tone of the film will be. Trailers Always Lie.
- Older Hero vs. Younger Villain: A seeming inverted example. The first trailer is largely from the much younger Kong's POV (Kong is under 100 years old, while Godzilla is more than 250 million years old)and portrays him in a heroic light vs the seemingly villainous Godzilla.
Weasel Words / Examples Are Not Arguable. Examples aren't "seemingly" examples. They are or they aren't.
- Remake: In terms of Kaiju cast it's one to King Kong vs. Godzilla, with the trailer featuring the two titular giant monsters brawling it out for supremacy in various locations.
Speculation, as the comment text notes. It is against the rules to add pre-hidden speculation. We don't guess what tropes apply and wait to see if we're right; we experience the work, then identify tropes.
Do not re-add without fixing. Thank you.
Edited by Alphatater Hide / Show Replies
- Firstly, Thank You for using the discussion page, neither of us wants an edit war, so Thank You- - - -
- And now onto Business:
- We aren't comparing the film to anything recent - Kong vs Zilla got released in 1962, back when Batman slid down poles and asked for the 'Shark Repellent Spray'. I, and the original troper, assume the tone will be more in line with the 2014, 2017 and 2019 movies preceding this one - (near) realism. - - -
- The 'Older Hero' trope explicitly states the First Trailer set this up, not the film, the first trailer is portraying Kong as the good guy (he even befriends a child). - - -
- Weasel Words - 'Seemingly', read the entry for 'OOC is serious business' a lot of people think that's Mecha Godzilla, you can see a very shiny Kaiju early in the trailer as people take shelter in the subway. - - -
- There's one more trope that you took a disliking to earlier, the 'High Concept' Trope, which you have left alone, Thank You again, there is a chance the size of an electron, that this film (and Skull Island from 2017) wasn't pitched as 'let's stick our Godzilla up against King Kong'. Because Mon£y$. - - -
- In conclusion, the 'Remake' & 'Darker & Edgier' Tropes are both comparing it to the 1962 film of almost the same name, 'Older vs Younger' is about the first trailer only, the word 'Seemingly' is used because nobody thinks that's the real Godzilla.
- Edit 29/01 - bulletpoint format
Perhaps the Older Hero vs. Younger Villain example could be reworded to something resembling the following?
- Older Hero vs. Younger Villain: The first trailer presents an inverted example, with Godzilla — a reptilian creature more than 250 million years old — being stated to be attacking humanity for an unknown reason, and Kong — who is less than 100 years old — being taken off Skull Island to fight him.
Agreed with Arawan 999, that's worded better. Although we probably need to wait for Alphatater's opinion before we put it back, even with 2 votes to 1.
That rewording looks better, but still pretty thin.
Edited by Alphatater
Gotta say, the point of a speculative inverted example based off a trailer that is rife with Epileptic Trees is pretty much lost to me. The identity/age of that Godzilla is up for debate, and even whether either of them are a hero/villain isn't even established.
In other words it boils down to "characters we know will be in opposition to each other at some point aren't the same age."
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
- The point of the old vs young trope is that the films establish Zilla as much older than Kong, who is a teen in the 1970's.
- As we're saying the First Trailer is designed to show Kong as a friend to all children (why did I just imagine an enormous ninja turtle?), while Zilla is "suddenly attacking humanity"
- Anybody Argue RE-ADDING that one?
- (speak now or forever hold your peace)
Part of the problem is poor grammar. "Being stated to be attacking humanity for an unknown reason" is a vague, awkward construction. It uses a lot of words to say almost nothing.
I'm against adding it as written.
Edited by Alphatater
Then could you word it as you see fit, please?
- You've admitted this one fits, just isn't worded to your liking.
- Just post it here so we can read it first.
I think it will be a lot easier to make a proper entry with full context and no speculation when the film is out in its entirety.
You mean - Post the bit in the context that 'the first trailer tries to portray- ', to which we can later add 'Trailers Always Lie' - Right?
- Edit - Ok I'm re-adding 'Old Hero' with the new wording, the only tweak I'm going to make is swiching 'presents' for 'portrays', we can add Never Trusta Trailer to 'portrays' after the films released.
- Note we have 2 votes for, Alpha's iffy on the wording and one guy was confused where it says Kong is younger, but that's settled by a wiki-walk.
No. The new wording is better than the old, but still poorly-written and vague. Do not re-add it unless you can bring it up to wiki standards.
Edited by Alphatater
So Alphatater, what problems do you see with the other two? As this is the 2nd King Kong vs Godzilla film successfully made, there will be comparisons.
... what.
Anyway, commented out the entry. In addition to being poorly written and under discussion, it breaks Example Indentation. You should check out How to Write an Example as you seem to have issues with context and linking pages as well.
As for the validity of the example, I have a few issues here:
- Speculation: The trailer deliberately plants several Epileptic Trees about characters and is presumably intentionally ambiguous.
- Hero or Villain: Look, they're versusing but do any of us think that things will stay that way? Setting aside that, both characters are the heroes of their own films and the trailer specifically has a character say that there's got to be a reason Godzilla is doing what he's doing that they're not seeing. I'm not denying that Godzilla isn't more threatening and Kong isn't nicer but Good vs. Good is a thing.
- Application of the trope: Older Hero vs. Younger Villain on its own has to have age actually play a role in the conflict. Godzilla is objectively older than Kong, but that's not mentioned in the trailer in the slightest. He's not past his prime, he's not Older and Wiser, he just happens to be older if you remember the past films. The way this is written then literally every work with a conflict is Older Hero vs. Younger Villain or an inverse because everyone is older or younger.
So what's the harm in not posting a guess and waiting until we actually know more?
Edited by Larkmarn Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Anyone else think the Adaptation-Induced Plot Hole entry should be restored? 'Cos while it's not impossible to explain away the novelization stating there's more Ghidorah skulls besides San/Kevin's (i.e. the extra skulls could've been decapitated in ancient times before Ghidorah was frozen), I think it relies too much on theorization explaining it away for it to not count as Adaptation-Induced Plot Hole. With all the Titans under Ghidorah's command and with Godzilla and Ghidorah having no offscreen battles in King of the Monsters, there's no way Ghidorah was decapitated more than once after he was thawed out. Plus, I've read the Amazon preview of the novelization and that prologue scene with Simmons indicates he thinks there's supposed to be three Ghidorah skulls despite how Ghidorah died in Boston.
Edited by Derv0sB2