I deleted the reply for being natter. If someone knows if the original example doesn't fit, they can remove it.
From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye!
There are so many examples in the MST3K header that it should be on its own page. Anyone else agree?
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Sounds good to me.
Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
Moved this here for discussion:
- In the Star Wars prequels this falls somewhere between played straight and intentionally invoked for the Jedi as an organization. They are supposed to be an organization in decline, gradually being distracted from their true mission by politics (the invoked trope) but in real terms every single action they take, ever, is directly counter to their stated goals and basic common sense in the most obvious possible manner, to the point that the only heroic actions the Jedi actually attempt or accomplish are individuals acting directly against the order's directives. In no particular order:
- A powerful potential student shows up, with a master who has plenty of free time already offering to teach him? They block that as hard as possible, because apparently having the all-powerful sorcerers who already have powerful political connections at age nine be completely ignorant of the rules and not trained to control their power is better for both the kid and the order.
- The legally-elected prime minister of the democratic state you are supposed to serve is accused of something vaguely sinister-seeming which according to your order doesn't even exist? Immediately try to assassinate him.
- Some force-sensitive children still have parents who love them? Abduct them, isolate them in a temple, and indoctrinate them to dogmatically follow a simplistic moral code while teaching them to use plasma weapons against heathens at ages that would get you instantly branded a war criminal in any civilization since ancient Greece.
- Two secular states having a tense but peaceful-so-far conflict with strong potential to escalate? Force your religious "mediators" on one faction without either side's request. Make sure your mediators are blatantly biased toward one side, and that they're 'peacefully' more heavily armed than anyone else in the solar system.
- Illegal slave army thankfully uncovered before it could be paid for any put to use? Freeing slaves is for chumps, we'll just tell them they're our slaves instead and send them to their deaths against beige terminators by the hundreds.
- A student has achieved the secular rank of general and served constantly with distinction, as well as demonstrating skills well in excess of anyone on the council, while visibly and vocally disatisfied with the legitimately disdainful way he's treated? And all it would take to satisfy him is acknowledgement that he's a full member of the order, something that doesn't in practical terms even give him more influence? Deny that vociferously. Make sure to chide him for being uppity while openly acknowledging he technically earned the rank he seeks. That'll show him, and definitely end with all parties content and satisfied forever.
Beyond having seen the movies I'm not particularely knowledgeable on Star Wars, but this is villying the Jedi to the point where it intentionally ignores half the facts of the story.
- The first point is potentially valid.
- No, the Jedi did not try to assassinate Palpatine because of something "vaguely sinister". They came in to arrest him after Anakin provided them with first-hand proof that Palpatine was a Sith Lord, whose existence was already known for more than a decade after Darth Maul's appearance. Mace Windu didn't try to kill Palpatine until after he had already killed three other Jedi in seconds.
- The Jedi didn't "abduct" Anakin, his mother let him go with Qui-Gon because she wanted her son to live a better life than he could have as a slave.
- I'm not sure if the "mediators" complaint is referring to the dispute with the Trade Federation or the Rebel Systems. Either way, the first one tried to kill the Jedi negotiators first, and the second were actively planning for war against the very Republic the Jedis were sworn to protect. How are they even "mediators"?
- The issue of slavery is never even brought up for the clone army, so it's more Fridge Horror than anything.
- The Jedi were rightfully afraid of Anakin's lust for power and the way Palpatine was pushing for him to have a seat on the council, not because they "wanted to show him".
Yeah, cut. The Jedi are clearly good... they're also pretty clearly incompetent, but they're actively and unambiguously trying to do the right thing. Twisting the truth into demonizing them is just inaccurate.
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I'm removing this example
- In Man of Steel, some people thought of Superman as this in regards to the final battle, given that he seems to be more focused on defeating the Kryptonians instead of saving lives. Other viewers gave him a pass because he is shown to be inexperienced and outclassed, and his efforts to move the fight away from populated areas are repeatedly thwarted by Zod.
He's portrayed as unambiguously heroic throughout the movie, going out of his way to save people, but he can't fight all the battles at the same time. I fail to see how he qualifies as a Designated Hero for being focused when duking it out with the Big Bad, who is a world ending genocidal villain
Edited by TrollBrutal Hide / Show Replies
"somee people" is natter, anyway. If it can be rewritten to match the style of the other two films, it could stay.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
I agree that it's a valid pull, but "portrayed as unambiguously heroic" is actually kinda an important part of DH. The narrative treats the character as heroic even if they kinda... aren't.
In this case, there's not a lot Supes really could do, so it's still a bad example.
Also, "Some People" is Word Cruft, not natter. Fine distinction.
Edited by Larkmarn Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Right, let me rephrase it there, portrayed not as "talked about as", but depicted by his actions, what I meant is that the character is heroic because his deeds are, we see him saving army guys when he can despite he's busy as he also has to contend with the Kryptonians, in Smallville for instance.
The narrative doesn't praise Superman that much, we get the Alien menace point of view form the army, until an Enemy Mine situation is reached.
"A Designated Hero is a character in a story who, despite being presented as heroic, is actually a Jerkass at best and an arguable villain at worst" Superman is never near that levels.
Edited by TrollBrutal
This answer is arguing with itself and is a violation of repair, don't respond. It needs removal or fixing.
Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett Hide / Show Replies