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16th Mar, 2019 10:25:33 PM

If the character shows the ability to be redeemed as a person after the moment, the moment was not a Moral Event Horizon, which requires the character be marked irredeemable by the act.

Think of it this way: Being irredeemable isn't necessarily the same as being pure evil. What it means is that once a character crosses the Moral Event Horizon, that's it, they can't ever go back and convince the audience they're good after the fact. It's a combination of how the work portrays the character and how the audience perceives the character. Doing "good things" is nice and all, but if Jerry, say, murdered an entire orphanage in cold blood, those good deeds aren't likely going to redeem him.

Edited by WarJay77
16th Mar, 2019 10:29:43 PM

Ok because ive always been confused by moral event horizons, i always feel they are subjective

16th Mar, 2019 10:31:16 PM

I mean... they are. But if a good majority of fans believe that Jerry can never be redeemed after what he did, then he crossed the MEH.

16th Mar, 2019 10:31:16 PM

So even if someone crossed the MEH, genuine actions they commit in the future is null?

16th Mar, 2019 10:37:56 PM

Look at it this way: Let's say Alice and Bob both commit the same deed during the course of the story and blow up a train of innocent people. Alice, after this, keeps on going down her path and becomes a supervillain, only occasionally stopping to Pet the Dog, but never showing genuine remorse- fans see her as a villain and maybe even as a Complete Monster. Bob, however, is wrecked with guilt at what happens and becomes The Atoner, spending years working to become a better person, and eventually becomes the hero trying to stop Alice.

Alice crossed the Moral Event Horizon, but Bob, who showed the capability to be a better person despite this, did not.

17th Mar, 2019 02:22:31 AM

If a character is redeemed, it means that they had never crossed the Moral Event Horizon in the first place and that any supposed MEH example is invalid.

17th Mar, 2019 01:57:27 PM

Yeah, I feel like MEH is constantly thrown around to mean "the most evil action the villain does, and all villains who don't redeem themselves must have one shoehorned because it's YMMV and someone will agree" as opposed to "the moment where the villain is beyond redemption".

17th Mar, 2019 07:05:53 PM

That's what I was trying to say, though you guys said it better than I could, and admittedly my example could've been better.

17th Mar, 2019 08:12:33 PM

Your Alice and Bob example was a good way of illustrating why Moral Event Horizon ends up subjective despite objective elements of the work. Murder/kidnapping can sometimes be a MEH, but it really depends on the work deciding to show that the character cannot be redeemable.

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