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Not a player but I'd agree a massive reorganization of the character pages should at least have been talked out before going through with it.
Eating a Vanilluxe will give you frostbite.
Apologies for asking so long after the fact, but Carrot Lover 123 and Dr Unknown, since you were the ones who made the initial edits, could we get your thoughts on the matter?
Edited by KarkatTheDalek Oh God! Natural light!
You can't ping people on ATT. You'll have to PM them a link to this query in order to get their attention
Macron's notes
Hello. I contributed to the Japan page's overhaul because I believed that all of its material should be at up-to-date as possible, based on official pre-release material released by the developers. However, this thread has led me to investigate official policy on how on trope pre-release material, which led me to this Administrivia page
that I was previously unaware of.
There, it reads that any works in the medium of video games cannot be troped, unless we have 1) pre-release material and 2) release scheduling or gameplay footage. Upon reflection, I believe that the edits made to the Japan page would need to be reverted because the Japan-related material released by the developers so far do not reveal a release date or a clip of gameplay. Similarly, such a policy may need to be instituted against folders/pages that also lack those requirements. There may be another Administrivia page relating to upcoming "updates" rather than works, but as far as I'm aware, there is no such page and thus the aforementioned policies are the best fit in this scenario.
My deepest apologies for not recognizing this set of rules beforehand. Checking up on this site's policies was the better first course of action before I started troping on unreleased works, so I will be certain to avoid this mistake again in the future. Unless a release date or gameplay footage for TNO has been released in relationg to the teasers released by the developers, I will not be adding anymore tropes concerning planned, future content.
Edited by DrUnknown
I did have a similar query in the past, and was instructed to always aim for a final draft. I'd assume that reverting the page to reflect a (soon-to-be-rendered-)outdated version of the game would be contrary to this, since you'll have to revert such an edit in the future anyway.
I can understand the logic there, but it frankly might be a couple years before The Setting Sun is released, so there’s a pretty big disconnect between what this page says about Japan’s content and what the player is actually going to be experiencing for a good while. Not to mention that the page just doesn’t have much content now (Kaya used to have some tropes to him, now he’s got nothing).
Edit: Also, I checked, and other pages still reference current content (for example, Nixon’s entry mentions him as a Foil to Ino).
Edited by KarkatTheDalek Oh God! Natural light!
@HTD: I see. I didn't know that query was made in the past. If that's the case, I'll assume the rules of New Media apply in this case, since this is a fanwork mod instead of an official video game. If anyone knows better, feel free to correct me.
@KarkatTheDalek: Presuming that the mod counts as New Media and thus can include pre-release material, then I believe the page should be updated with what the developers truly envision Japan to be in the final draft. All of the content we have now is a massive placeholder. The team lead in charge of developing the nation's content commented on its current state as a "bandaid fix" and directly called some of the recently added content as "placeholder content", which isn't allowed on this site, according to the previous query.
As for the disconnect, I agree that it can be jarring. I believe this can be rectified by explicitly noting that all of the added examples thus far represent an upcoming version of Japan, as per official site policy. For example, noting that an added trope comes from "Teaser A" to let the reader know that this is upcoming content. In the end, it creates a page that both reflects the advertised "final draft" of Japan and informs the reader that it has not been implemented yet.
Wait, is it ok to use abbreviations for character sheets?
I don’t know if it’s a good idea to revert all the character pages to what’s currently in the game. If all tropes reflected content as it is currently, a lot of tropes in the characters page would have to be removed/reverted. (Only to then get added back when the updates release) I agree with Dr Unknown about adding emphasis in the Japan page that it’s for content coming in The Setting Sun, as it could be confusing otherwise.
Edited by CarrotLover123
Are there any mods willing to give their view of the situation?
Oh God! Natural light!
not a mod, but i know the rule in this situation. pre-release, works can only be troped by what's in official marketing material. Word of God isn't tropable. leaks aren't tropable. teasers are tropable as long as it's noted that the tropes come from said teaser.
the rule-abiding thing to do here would actually be to restore what's currently playable to the page and keep the teaser information, with a soft-split of the section to indicate what's what. once the revamp comes out, the old material can be removed.
Yeah, that's correct. We also have the Creating a Work Page for an Upcoming Work page which covers our content leak policy.
Macron's notes
I really like the idea suggested by ChloeJessica (thank you for the recommendation). I'll get to it as soon as I can.
Should we also have some sort of note informing readers of upcoming changes?
Oh God! Natural light!
here's how id do it: section off the current content and the teaser content. describe the current content without mentioning the teaser content, and at the beginning of the section containing the teaser content, give information about the revamp and whatnot above the folders.
Alright, it looks like the changes have been made in most of the necessary places, so I think we’re good!
Oh God! Natural light!
So I originally posted this in the discussion tab for the TNO Japan character page, but I didn't get any replies, so I decided to post it here.
For some context, last week the development team for the Hearts of Iron IV mod The New Order Last Days of Europe released a teaser for a future rework of their Japanese content (Japan is currently playable, but its story and gameplay are slated to be heavily revamped), including several new Prime Ministers that are not currently in the game. After this had happened, our character page was edited to reflect this teaser. The result is that the entries of almost every possible Japanese Prime Minister and associated characters that are currently in the game have been deleted, replaced with individuals who as of this writing only exist in the few teasers the development team has released.
To reiterate what I posted on the discussion tab, I don't think it's a good idea to to completely redo a character section to reflect a version of the mod that isn’t even out yet, and won’t be for some time; as it stands, this does not at all reflect the current experience players of the mod will have when playing Japan. Now, this isn't the first time this has happened. For example, Italy's page currently uses info from teasers rather than what is currently in the game, but I was willing to let that slide, since Italy's new content apparently isn't too far away from release, and most of the entries are still present on the page, since those characters will still be in the new content.
(Side note, feels weird to use the word "characters" for AU versions of real people, but hey.)
In summary, I think we should revert Japan's character page - and perhaps other pages with similar issues - so that it reflects what is currently playable, until such a time that the teased content is released.
Edited by KarkatTheDalek