Funny but not helpful
Meiling wears pants. Fanon doesn't tend to depict them because, you know, leeeeeeeeegs. But she does wear them.
Forever liveblogging the Avengers
And Shou! Shou wears pants.
Also maybe the captain. It's ambiguously drawn.
edited 23rd Aug '10 11:21:07 PM by Hylarn
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Patchouli Knowledge
, r... rapping?
Theme:
Voile, the Magic Library, (Immaterial and Missing Power version), (Hisoutensoku version), Locked Girl ~ The Girl's Secret Room, (Immaterial and Missing Power version), (Scarlet Weather Rhapsody version)
Traits:
- highly intelligent and educated
- married to her library
- distant and snarky
- unexcitable
Relationships/Shipping:
- Marisa (her savior, her light, her favorite cat burglar... except when she isn't)
- Koakuma (coinhabitant of the library, relationship: speculative)
- Remilia (old friend whom she's a perpetual guest for)
- rest of the Scarlet Devil Mansion (rest of the Scarlet Devil Mansion)
Write-up:
The Locked Girl, prisoner only to herself. What are the secrets her room holds?
Patchouli is one of the most reccuring characters in the Windows-era series, third only to Reimu and Marisa. Yet not a lot is known about her. She lives as a guest in the magic library of the Scarlet Devil Mansion, where she has spent the entire last century devouring the knowledge that the gargantuan library has to offer. Born a full-on Magician youkai, she probably hopes to be able to read all of it in her extended lifetime, and she just might... if her bad health doesn't do her in first. She hardly ever leaves the mansion.
Somehow, she still seems to be aware of the major happenings in Gensokyo. But she doesn't talk much to anyone outside the mansion, unless they drop by themselves. Even then, she's distant and aloof, and won't hesitate to belittle a visitor with a monotonous but powerful jab.
In fandom, Patchy is no less of a recurring figure, primarily due to her famous ship with Marisa. Together with Alice, the emotionless and distant magician forms one half of Marisa's harem that is one of the most prominent mainstays of fanon. And it's not hard to imagine how it came to this.
It's easy to list the occasions on which Marisa and Patchouli were paired up in games, but the main draw lies in identification: A majority of Touhou fans, especially in Japan, are nerds who are, or at least feel like recluses from society. With her comfortable-looking appearance, her frailty appealing to nurturing instincts, and her apparent status as a hikkikomori, many fans try to see past her rough exterior - and what they see is a poor person frightened of human warmth who finds escapism in her books. And Marisa is the knight in shining armor, a girl's Manic Pixie Dream Girl who'll take her by the hand and ride into the sunset with her on her noble broom.
Even when the two aren't paired up, Patchouli's hikkikomori status takes a prominent role in her characterization, and so she's often seen referencing Japanese pop-culture, reading manga and even piloting the odd giant robot.
In the end, it's up to the individual fan to decide whether Patchouli is a power-hungry eccentric or a lonely girl longing for love. One can only hope that she'll find what makes her truly happy in the end.
Similar characters:
- Alice (both famously shipped with Marisa, in no small part thanks to their recluse status)
Sorry this took so long. I wanted to get some drawings done to show them before this, but in the end, I didn't get them really done, and then the forums went down, so now I'll submit this thing. And I'll just not half-ass the drawings and upload them in the general thread when they're done.
Patchouli, I don't have terribly much to say about. It's no fun to have her be entirely aloof, it's silly to turn her into a complete and utter otaku... The kuudere thing has potential, but should be done in moderation. Then again, that's the case with just about any characterization.
I don't know where I stand on the Alice-Patchouli thing. If I had to choose, I'd go with Alice. The draw of identifying with Patchouli as a recluse is strong, and there's some really sweet videos and stories about this pairing, but Marisa and Alice seem more like they'd actually have things to do with each other (dammit, Muffin), and Alice's whole doll schtick seems like a more evident cry for human warmth. Patchouli still has Koakuma and the rest of the mansion, and it's not hard to imagine that she's just not as romantically inclined or would simply prefer the companionship of a fellow bookworm like the Little Devil.
PS: I adore "Voile, the Magic Library". The first 45 seconds are amazing, and the rest is some good ol' gloomy ambient.
edited 25th Aug '10 2:59:14 AM by Fawriel
One Winged Egret
In the end, it's up to the individual fan to decide whether Patchouli is a power-hungry eccentric or a lonely girl longing for love.Who is she, and what is she doing there? She's not labeled as a librarian or tutor or anything, so she doesn't seem to be an employee like Meiling, Sakuya, or the fairies. But she's not family like Flandre either. She's just... a guest. A friend. I can't imagine any interpretation of her as a loner because that makes no sense. Her entire identity revolves around her being Remi's good friend.
I suppose this leans back towards the Otaku Surrogate thing a bit, but I can really identify with her in that regard. Patchouli spends all her time in the library, while Remilia's always scheming or throwing parties or whatever. Frankly, they probably don't see each other very often. But regardless, they're good friends. It makes me think of... I dunno, your best friend in High School who you don't see too often anymore because they have their own life now, but when you do meet up you can act like you've seen each other yesterday and are still best friends. You don't need to rely on petty things like common interests or spending time together, you just know that you're friends. That's just how it is. Obviously they do live in the same house, but I kinda get the impression they can go days or weeks without seeing each other. Maybe I'm just projecting though, because that's the kind of friendship I really value.
Given all that as a background, her Deadpan Snarker nature makes sense. She doesn't really hate people, nor is she hiding an emotional vulnerability, she just takes people for granted. Because, well, she can. She's rude to her friends as well as her enemies, because her friends are her friends and her enemies are her enemies. Being rude won't change any of that. Remi will be her friend and Sakuya will be her friend's maid no matter what happens. Marisa will pester her when she'd rather be left alone to read, and will also pester her when she's lonely (if she ever is, it's hard to tell). She doesn't need to suck up to people or hide her true feelings in any situation, because everyone just accepts her for who she is and treats her the same anyway. She extends the same courtesy.
Which is I guess another way of saying that she's Raised by Wolves. She doesn't really care about social niceties so she ignores them. She's never had to bother acting friendly to people, including her friends, so she doesn't. Everyone who actually cares about her will ignore this anti-social behavior, and she's happy with her small social circle, so it just all works out.
edited 25th Aug '10 3:22:16 AM by Clarste
And I just realized that a big part of why I love this thread so much is that it helps me understand how real people work as well.
One Winged Egret
Hmm?
Edit: Oh, and have we done Remilia yet? I don't remember doing her, but her name's not on the to-be-done list. Nor is it on the profile link list. Did we just completely forget to add her in the first place?
edited 25th Aug '10 3:37:19 AM by Clarste
literary masochist
One thing I wonder about is why she's so sickly. Is it because she never leaves the library, cooped up with her dusty tomes (I hope she doesn't get asthma from that), never getting any exercise? Or does she naturally have a weak immune system? (Is that even possible for a youkai?)
This "faculty lot" you speak of sounds like a place of great power...
One Winged Egret
She's anemic, which is generally a nutrition problem. She probably forgets to eat and skips meals or something.
Hmm? Well, before your post, I thought about snarky and distant Patchouli and how that doesn't seem like a terribly nice one because it just makes her look like a jerk, and I feel that making a character feel like a jerk is generally a mistake unless that is their point, like, you know, a villain. Most people are simply people trying to live how they feel is the right way for them to live, and thinking of someone as an asshole is generally a product of not understanding them well enough.
Shortly put, I feel like I understand her now, thanks to your description, and at the same time, I better understand people like her (which I guess includes you).
Edit: Oh, and have we done Remilia yet? I don't remember doing her, but her name's not on the to-be-done list. Nor is it on the profile link list. Did we just completely forget to add her in the first place? Oh dear god. Uh. I... don't quite remember. I feel like we've discussed her before, but... maybe it was just a consequence of discussing Flandre or Sakuya or other characters... It's possible that I accidentally erased her after misremembering that...
Does anyone else remember discussing her in detail?
One thing I wonder about is why she's so sickly. Is it because she never leaves the library, cooped up with her dusty tomes (I hope she doesn't get asthma from that), never getting any exercise? Or does she naturally have a weak immune system? (Is that even possible for a youkai?) Hmm, I think some profile of hers said she was born with asthma. I guess that would answer the question about youkai immune systems, too.
Speaking of "born with"; her profile on the character sheet said she was born a magician youkai, which made me change it to that in the one I wrote, but where is that actually said? I thought magicians are born normal humans who somehow cross a certain threshold into youkaidom.
edited 25th Aug '10 7:01:09 AM by Fawriel
literary masochist
Speaking of "born with"; her profile on the character sheet said she was born a magician youkai, which made me change it to that in the one I wrote, but where is that actually said? I thought magicians are born normal humans who somehow cross a certain threshold into youkaidom.
Funny but not helpful
A theory I saw somewhere was that if a human who becomes a magician youkai like Alice has children, those children are born magicians.
Forever liveblogging the Avengers
The thing I got about Patchouli is that she likes knowledge, and doesn't suffer fools easily/people with high energy. Which is why I think she would make a good comedic foil to Marisa's antics.
I am now a shiny stone~
I've seen some pretty amusing crackfic doujin where Patchy gets paired with Alice as a result of their mutual like/dislike friendship with the Love-Coloured Witch, as well as some naughty ones where she experiments on Koakuma.
Notable fanvids:
- Locked Girl, a PatchyMari story.
- Double Scarlet, which portrays Patchouli as one of the most mature voices of reason in the Scarlet Devil Mansion.
- Patchu Meirin, that infamous Touhou M1 Grand Prix sketch where Meiling tricks Patchouli into revealing her feelings for Marisa in a most amusing fashion.
- Locked Girl
There's also the humorous portrayl of her as a manga nut who also does her own doujinshi.
edited 25th Aug '10 8:50:19 AM by AceOfScarabs
The three finest things in life are to splat your enemies, drive them from their turf, and hear their lamentations as their rank falls!
^ In fact, I checked the lyrics of the rap battle song featuring Patchouli and Alice (and Marisa). Turns out it's about... a fight between people of different doujin circles.
I am now a shiny stone~
Here's a subbed version of that rap-theme. They're still quite in-character, lol.
The three finest things in life are to splat your enemies, drive them from their turf, and hear their lamentations as their rank falls!
I like how Alice looks amazingly tired.
GOD RAPPEL LOOKS SO UN WORK SAFE WHY
I am now a shiny stone~
On a more physical front, Patchouli also gets portrayed with all sorts of physiques. Personally, I think of her as eating well, but sickly because of her lack of exercise, so she has a bit of meat on her bones, so to speak - she's no Goddess in terms of beauty, but she has that bookish charm about her. Reading glasses definitely would fit her very well.
The three finest things in life are to splat your enemies, drive them from their turf, and hear their lamentations as their rank falls!
Pachu? Hm, she's one of the characters I've never been able to get interested in. Can be fun as a secondary character, but as a more major one she's kind of boring. Speaking of which, I think she works better with the SDM group than Marisa. She just doesn't have enough force of personality not to be overshadowed by Mari.
Patchouli's snarkiness is definitely very high especially during her scenario in IAMP.
Patchouli does interact with Marisa more than she does any other non-SDM character. One interesting element is she actually decides to partner with Marisa in Subterranean Animism rather than Sakuya. This is most likely because Patchouli respects magicians of study a lot more than knife throwers with time hax powers. This makes sense since she also praises Alice for her magic ability in the versus mode of Hisoutensoku. Mind you, she's still pretty anti-social towards Marisa often calling her a rat. The one bit of Les Yay with Marisa is in EOSD where it does sound a bit like the two are flirting with each other during stage four.
On another note, Royal Flare is the absolute best player spellcard in IAMP.
and that's how Equestria was made!
The Ghost of Years Past
I don't recall discussing Remilia, but we might have. I'm not the best source to ask of this.
As for Patchy...
To be honest, a lot of my thoughts on her seemed to be stuff I thought of due to that Double Scarlet video a while back.
But lesstry puttin' into WORDS...
She's the understanding person of the Mansion. Sakuya is distant, Remilia probably maintains a healthy comradeship but doesn't get too attached, Meiling is seemingly always guarding the gate and Flan is Flan. I doubt she has much in the way of helpful advice("Why are you asking the girl who's lived in a library for 500 years to help with your social life...?"), but I'm sure she wouldn't mind a spot of tea with any of the mansion residents...as long as it didn't cut into her book time, or didn't cut too much, of course.
At the same time, she's only really close to Remi and Flan. She doesn't know Meiling well, and Sakuya and her only interact often enough on a more professional level. I think the fact Patchy and Remi call each other by their nicknames tells you how close they are.
I like to think of her as Flan's tutor. Somebody close to Flan, who could help teach her things and NOT get kyuu'd, and is certainly knowledgable(Or should I say, Knowledgeable?) for the job. Not to mention Remi would trust her.
I wonder how Patchouli got to the SDM anyway. She's apparantly been there from the beginning. I wonder if she was some kind of caretaker to Remi and Flan, thus explaining why Remi feels so comfortable around her? IDK.
For some reason, I can't help but imagine her taunting Marisa with a fictional library card.
For some reason, I also think of her as having rank as Sakuya, but not power over her. So Sakuya doesn't always follow her orders to the T, like she would for Remi.
Pairing-wise...
I usually prefer Patchy/Flan(OTP for both of them) or Patchy/Remilia. But a Patchy/Alice(I like this one a lot actually) or Patchy/Marisa is good too.
My mental picture of her is short and a little pudgy, but with a commanding presence... at least in situations she has control over, not crazy outliers like random youkai exterminators invading her library. This is in part due to a lack of exposure to the supplementary materials and fighting games; I didn't get to see that much of her snark.
I don't think she's desperately lonely or anything, but she might enjoy visitors, especially nosy rats like Marisa who give her a chance to put those spells she's been writing to use. (On the other hand, if she's not that interested in combat magic, I guess it might be a huge bother.)
While the other SD Mers might not see much of her normally, I'll bet she's nice to have around. After all, what good is a huge magic library if you can't find anything in it? She and Koa will be happy to help, provided you can put up with a little snark and/or pranking along the way.
Some kind of a New Leaf
It it stated that the mansion is bigger on the inside than on the outside. But if most art of it, as well as the fact that it's a mansion is to be believed, it's already pretty big on the outside. What would 5 people (not counting summoned Demons/Random Fairies) want with a building with what I can only conclude as several acres (at least) of interior floorspace? Could it be that the SDM is actually effectivley a small (or not-so small even) city of Youkai, and the game only showed us the most important individuals? For all we know, hundreds of Youkai could be living and working in a supermassive complex of a structure. And at this point my ponderings head to concepts that would be best reserved for when we get to Patchouli's discussion......which we are at now.
Remember when I proposed that Yamame was the resident incident solver of the Underground? Well, If the SDM is a city of youkai like I speculated, then Patchouli is probably resident incedent solver for the SDM. Unlike the Yamame thing, which was just a goofy tangent, this is far more in Patchy's capability, as well as ''outright stated in canon''.
However, it also says that it's her job to cause incidents as well. Hmm...
I make video games! Or plan to, anyway.
I think we did Remillia somewhere near the beginning, close to Reimu.
Speaking of that...
I've also wondered about Patchy being the general Otkau Surrougate, while it defiantly has base, it just seems more off to me, but oddly so does the snarking approach as well. To me it seems that Patches, being around as long as she has, has had more time to gather "herself" so to say, similar to Mokou she has found an even ground between realism and the world.
She's a scientist, this can be seen with all her alchemy themes, and with all her study time she's obviously a really good one, which leads to some Crippling Overspecialization as a result. With the things she's mastered and studied, like the SDM residents and magic, she's comfortable and won't be shaken up, but with things like social interactions she becomes more awkward and panicked. Actually this offers explanation to her snarking and deadpan, as they are buffers and safety nets for her social shortcomings.
While she maintains an image of a level-head, behind the scenes in the churning clockwork of her mind, she's scrambling to find the right answers, desperately searching for a proper way to respond, and sorting through her massive library of knowledge to find something marginally relevant to say. This also ties into her interactions with Marisa, as what is snarking, but response, in a way it must have a starting point to come from weather it be action of dialogue.
This helps Patches by not needing her to break the ice, you could see "snarking" as an activity she mastered, and subsequently used to offer her a lifeline when confronted with a difficult situation, such as a dangerous thief magician, so in reality she lets the other person lead the conversation to not embarrass herself.
But on to the issue of character interaction, it does leave me sad that not more interaction is done with her and SDM cast, what with its plethora of possibilities. Particularly Koakuma, as she in theory would be interacting most with Patches and herself has many springboards to go off of. Onto THAT it irks me how Koakuma is generally portrayed to somewhat clueless or moe towards Patches, as not only are there more valid moe opportunities in Touhou, such as Shiki a SEVERELY overlooked option, but rather I actually imagine her as like Shiki and Komachi, but with a more subverted master-servant dynamic.
Namely I imagine Koa is taller than Patches, and appropriately acts cordial with, lest she suffer punishment by banishment back to the fires of hell, as she is her assistant, and that's what she is Patches "secretary" to say, a person who must follow and respect their boss regardless of personal opinion. However this also ties into the fact Koa, while serving Patches, also hides her agenda, similar to how Sakuya sometimes hides her motivations from Remillia, and is as competent as Patches is mentally, how else would Patches be satisfied? Not only that though she is also (presumably) more physically competent than Patches as well, and could in a highly theoretical situation, overpower Patches into Neko.
So personally I think Koa plays much better off Patches character than Marisa, even playing into the "desiring company" aspect of Patches, not only showing that it exists, but that it furthers Patches calculating character, showing that even loneliness is easily conquerable with logic and skill.
Moving to Remillia as well, It is equally disheartening that their friendship is not discussed more, intriguing as it is with all its shipping possibilities. As in itself, the relations imply a kind of "vitriolic" friendship (i.e. you can insult your friends because you're just that close)and speaks of the kind of closeness that the two developed off-screen, in the past. And moving back to the past, it also brings in the question of both Remillia's past, that of which ties into Patches, which leaves me wondering why Patchy is considered the "Otaku" when it would be much more appropriately attributed to Remillia.
Think about, you can assume that Remi spent the majority of her life in Europe, where she presumably met the SDM cast. It is also when she renamed Sakuya, but how would a 500 year old FRENCH vampire know a name like Sakuya Izayoi? Simple, it is because over time, due to cultural osmosis, Remi became exposed to Japan, and subsequently, became obsessed with it. Why else would she go through the trouble of moving her entire estate ALL the way to Gensokyo of all things, why even go through that trouble? After all (in theory) she is a vampire a PHYSICAL being, something which can breed by bites and such, compare to a youkai which is spiritual, and in a way runs off the belief of fear (similar to how Kogasa runs off surprise) so they can disappear, and will need Gensokyo, but Remi has no such needs "presuming" she doesn't.
Even assuming she doesn't though, there is another reason, she lost to Reimu.
Why? She wasn't fighting someone of equal Hax like Yukari, and using fate she can prevent Reimu's hax before it can occur, why chose to lose and continue the trend of Defeat Equals Friendship? Because it ties in with the Remi/Reimu ship, which she is trying to pull into fruition.
This is because like most foreign Otaku, Remi has a skewed view of Japan, all hot gentle Japanese women, just waiting to be swept off their feet by the "exotic" foreigner. Obviously this is not the case, (which severely dissapoints Remi), but then Reimu comes in EOSD. And with Remiu, Remi has a chance to fufill her Otaku dreams, but it still does not answer the "fate" question. What does though is that Reimu is not gentle or demure, being Reimu, and is there to kick some ass, which she CAN do a la reality hax. This puts Remi in difficult position, if she uses her fate hax to kill Reimu as she loses her chance for Otaku Fufillment, seeing as Reimu is one of the few characters who "fit" the traditional "Japanese" look, with few other charcters even having black hair, let alone long black hair (albeit Reimu's hair varies depending on the artist) but even then she's a shrine maiden equal only to schoolgirl!
However she can't not kill her as Reimu being Reimu, it'll just piss her off, motivating her to come back untill Remi has been soundly beat into the floor. Plus she can't manipulate her into a relationship, as it would probably piss off Yukari (assuming you go under the interpretation that Reimu knew Yukari before her appearance) but even then Marisa, who if manipulated also has backup, so that doesn't work. This leaves only one option left, losing, which actually works in her favor as Defeat Equals Friendship and the like.
So obviously Patchy is not the hardcore Otaku of the SDM, and another interpretation, is that the "tomes" Remi is always depicted reading, are actually just custom tankoban.
And referring to the M-1 sketch between her and Meiling, why isn't there more Meiling-Patches material? They offer great contrast, more so than even Marisa, not only that, but am I the only person who has noticed the parallels between Koa and China!?
Both have long red hair, tall stature, large chests, so the lack of material concerning the both of them greatly saddens me.
Tossing some crack in there, but I've always imagined a situation where Koa and China are somehow switched, what with them being so similar and all, Patchy probably wouldn't even notice. After all Koa would probably stay awake, and menial labor would keep Meiling awake around the library, which she could easily traverse considering her physical condition.
Some more crack luz, a pairing not said Meiling x Patches. Going off the above "contrast" it'd work great as a "replacement" for Koa, or to make Patchy healthier via positive influence by Meiling, similar to the positive influence she could theoretically offer to Flan.
And speaking of Flan, it's interesting that Patchy is frequently depicted in a teacher-student relationship with Flan, assuming she'd not shipped off to Keine's though. Here's a thought though, Patchy is her tutor, because Flan is failing. This would also explain why Flan is often depicted as being uncomfortable, of rather aggressive towards Patchy, as she is reminder of disappointments and failures, and also by having Patchy there it leaves the impression that she is also stupid, which nobody likes. Not to say she would want to "Kyuuu~" her though, in fact it's also rather interesting that she is also portrayed as being the one who comes through for her as well, almost as much as Meiling, working past her distrust to accept Patches help.
AND that is what I have to say!
edited 25th Aug '10 6:56:24 PM by WORLDTree
holy wall of text batman
There are a few more that wear pants in PC-98 too I believe. Yuuka of course, Rika, I think I'm forgetting someone else. Orange and Chiyuri wear shorts if that counts.
Although I'm use to androgynous characters, I really can't stop thinking of Wriggle as male by default. I don't think it’s solely because of her pants either. It’s more the cape that does it for me; it just looks like a little boy's costume.