Harry Potter

The fact is, both of Voldemort's parents abandoned him. It's just that the man in this situation was wealthy and wanted his unborn baby to die and the other was a poor woman who had been abused all her life.

The narrative has zero sympathy to spare for Tom Riddle Sr.. Was he violated? Sure. Was the baby responsible? Nope. It's really that simple.

Edited by Nikkolas on Feb 26th 2021 at 2:31:00 AM

The narrative (Harry and Dumbledore at least) are generally sympathetic to what happened to Tom Riddle Sr.

It's the Muggle neighbors who disliked him for being a snob and weren't that sad when he was found dead. And tbf, they had no idea what really happened to him.

The guy was basically brainwashed and raped for who knows how long. Of course he'd run at the first opportunity. And as for his unborn kid...he'd only have his rapist's word that said kid is even his in the first place.

It's even more disturbing if one thinks that Tom was actually under the Imperius Curse the whole time as opposed to "just" a Love Potion.

Edited by M84 on Feb 26th 2021 at 6:42:52 PM

Just pointing out, but our viewpoint character is an orphan with really shitty guardians, so that made Senior look a lot worse, intentionally or not.

Not really. I don't like the idea of forcing rape victims to take care of the resulting baby. It's kinda icky, to be honest. Not to mention such a situation could be just as bad for the child...

Edited by Redmess on Feb 26th 2021 at 1:57:22 PM

Yeah, there's already way too many stories IRL of women suing sperm donors or whatnot to have to pay child support for their kids.

I don't see how the story is sympathetic to Tom Sr. at all. A

In all my lifetime of being an HP fan, I've never seen anyone express sympathy for Tom Sr.. Ever.

EDIT:

Here is the extent of Tom Riddle Sr's character:

And Dumbledore's information:

“Again, this is guesswork,” said Dumbledore, “but I believe that Merope, who was deeply in love with her husband, could not bear to continue enslaving him by magical means. I believe that she made the choice to stop giving him the potion. Perhaps, besotted as she was, she had convinced herself that he would by now have fallen in love with her in return. Perhaps she thought he would stay for the baby’s sake. If so, she was wrong on both counts. He left her, never saw her again, and never troubled to discover what became of his son.”

Edited by Nikkolas on Feb 26th 2021 at 6:12:34 AM

The fact we know little about the Riddles beyond being snobbish and rich which was normal for 1920s anyway probably factors into why people don't sympathize with them. We know Merope Gaunt had an appalling life and while the narrative makes it clear what she did was still terrible it's easier to Draco in Leather Pants her because of how terrible her life was. With Tom Riddle Sr it's like people treat him as an Asshole Victim when his worst offense is being a rich jerk. We don't get a Sympathetic P.O.V. for him.

It´s been a long time since i read the books, but how could someone not have sympathy for Tom Sr.? There is no crime (and Toms "crime" was just being a handsome, rich snob) which justifies being brainwashed and raped. I´m honestly having a hard time coming up with arguments, because forcing someone to stay with their rapist and/or take care of said rapists child is just so intrinsicly wrong and fucked up in my eyes, that i don´t even want to talk with people who can´t agree to that.

I agree, it's pretty fucked up, and the only reason to hate Riddle Sr seems to be that... he's a rich snob. That's not a crime.

This is way too heavy a topic for Harry Potter but I disagree that the baby should suffer for the crimes of any of its parents.

But yeah, I really don't want to argue that in here of all places.

The original point was just that people blame Tom Sr.. I pointed out why. The story itself has no love lost for him while Merope gets a whole chapter about her miserable life.

Edited by Nikkolas on Feb 27th 2021 at 4:41:17 AM

We have a trope for that.

Don't think I have personally seen hatred or real reaction to Senior probably due to him not getting focus.

Is also the fact tom being alone is one step that make him become voldemort, make him more jerkish that it is.

I will said merope is a intersting figure in that regard, she was a victim and yet she was also a rapist, what she did was terrible wrong but also have a very very shitty life.

I don't know, the narrative leans very heavily towards Voldemort simply being born evil, both from his inbreeding and rape backstory, and from how he seems to have a natural predilection for torture and abuse. The narrative makes it very clear it wasn't the orphanage.

Really if anything, Voldenmort could have been very well-adjusted in the orphanage. We never hear about him being bullied or anything, he was just born bad and did all of that stuff with his magic just because he could.

Indeed, the story very much goes for the Evil Baby trope.

@ Redmess: Because J.K Rowling was unwilling to give the Hitler analogue even a moment where he was a good person

It's Understandable given....everything that JK's word has little weight these days but she did say that Voldemort could have had a normal life if his parents had chosen to stay alive for him. Which, to be fair, is pretty clearly in the text of the book, too.

Weren't we just talking a page or so ago about Rowling's valorization of motherhood? Maybe it's totally unfair but it's a theme in the books and Merope is an example. The moral is she (or Tom Sr.) might have been able to save Tom from becoming what he did.

Overall I think it's less about parenthood specifically and more about Love. That is absolutely the most fundamental message of HP - Love is the most powerful force in existence and can conquer anything.

Edited by Nikkolas on Feb 27th 2021 at 3:57:35 AM

The closest Voldemort ever gets to a moment of love in the books is when he visibly bristles at hearing Hepzibah Smith refer to Merope in a derogatory manner (unaware that Merope was his mother), but nothing comes of that moment.

I'm well aware. That moment has always fascinated me for what it could mean. Some people interpret it more narcissistically - she was insulting HIS mother and it was HIS own current employer who had essentially robbed HIM of his inheritance - but I also like to see it as more hinting at a shred of humanity in him.

The idea of someone just being born evil is rather disturbing, though.

I'm super late here, but I wanna confirm something that no one else did when we were talking about it: On Rowling's old website, she did, in fact, confirm that Metamorphmagi can change sex at will. The link, unfortunately, appears to be lost, but it was on her old website under the section debunking rumors, in this case, the rumor that Harry is one because he regrew his hair overnight once (actually a case of Power Incontinence, according to Rowling).

Anyway, as for the Tom Riddle thing, the idea that Voldie was born evil is kind of a mixed bag—Rowling has said in an interview that his "loveless conception" was meant to be more symbolic than literal and that everything would've turned out differently if his mother were able to raise him. I suppose that's fine in theory, but given just what kind of person Merope was, I actually can't imagine he'd turn out great.

Granted, one could argue that any outcome would probably be better than literally becoming a genocidal dictator...

EDIT: 'd by Nikkolas, just ignore the second part then XD

Edited by CJCroen1393 on Feb 27th 2021 at 5:47:49 AM

Not to mention that "he was evil because he was conceived through rape" is an even worse implication to make.

Found the response on Wayback:

She doesn't mention sex, but given as she describes the ability as being able to "transform their appearance completely" without any clear limits, and the wide range of other transformations explicitly available, a Metamorphmagus being able to transform into a different sex seems to me perfectly plausible.

Huh. Well that explains that. My memory must be fuzzy, since it was years ago when I last saw it.