Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

If you look at all the Admirals shown in the series, a definite pattern emerges on whether that is the case or not.

And besides, my point still stands: by your standards no-one can stand a chance to Signum, even people who actually have. A ten year old girl was a worthy foe for her during that entire season - what's keeping someone older from doing the same?

edited 25th Apr '12 9:23:25 PM by Justin_Brett

Fate had the most impressive power of them all... she was a main character!

I'm not entirely sure how Cinque deserves to be lumped in with Cypha. I mean, besides being a generally cool big sis to the numbers, her sole contributions to the series were holding the line against Subaru and defeating Zest off-screen.

@ JB: that's a good point. Was signum being fought to a standstill by 10-YO fate "embarrassing"? It should be if being beaten by Lindy is so bad.

edited 25th Apr '12 9:35:08 PM by Gaunt88

Cypha hasn't really done anything more than her. She's beaten up, um, two people, but neither of those times have really been important to the plot. Cinque stopping Subaru was, at least.

edited 25th Apr '12 9:31:09 PM by Justin_Brett

That's a good point, and I generally don't think Cypha has done all that much either.

That makes me wonder, were there rabid Subaru fans decrying her defeat mid-strikers at the hands of a newcomer as being embarrasing?

edited 25th Apr '12 9:34:49 PM by Gaunt88

A worthy opponent which Signum had to hold back against because of her vow to Hayate. Don't forget how things turned out for that 9-year old girl once Signum managed to fight her without pressures xD.

But that's not the point, i know there's people with credible level to challenge her like Nanoha herself or Schach. The point remains in that we have no indicators of Lindy's actual prowess in face-to-face combat, gosh that 9-year old girl you mentioned probably is a much better melee fighter than Lindy is.

And just to make a note, i like how you people understimate Nanoha and Fate because they're nine. Since season one both were ranked AAA which meants they're already stronger than most of the Strikers cast since that tender age xDU Nanoha and Fate in A's were absurdly powerfull mages even by TSAB standards. The fact they actually managed to keep up with the Wolkenritter is more a merit to them than a demeaning for the wolks, even if the latter's where holding back by not going for lethal strikes. And a proof than Nanoha and Fate are much more powerfull than most older people around them(gosh we have TSAB mages who train all their lives and never reach such a level) xDU

If someone will challenge Signum, better prove to be a worthy opponent and the battle will be even, otherwise it will be another stain on Signum's record. As i've said, right now Signum's reputation on a meta-level is pending on a thin line. She needs feats and i hope this movie gives her some good ones. If lindy sacrifices herself and isn't able to fight after defeating Signum because of how hard the fight was then it'll be credible.

edited 25th Apr '12 9:35:23 PM by Akiyoshi

Wasn't Signum very weakened beforehand in her fight against Fate too?

edited 25th Apr '12 9:35:03 PM by kay4today

>A worthy opponent which Signum had to hold back against because of her vow to Hayate.

She was using everything but her bow, so it couldn't have been that much.

And if you really want an indication of how strong Lindy might be, how about when she deployed to go apprehend an extremely high-ranked criminal who was currently in the middle of causing a dimensional collapse? Wasn't a fight, certainly, but she probably stood more a chance against Precia than either Nanoha or Fate at that time.

Wait, actually, didn't Signum nearly get killed by a random worm monster in As? Man, that's really embarrassing.

edited 25th Apr '12 9:39:38 PM by Justin_Brett

Eh, if Signum doesn't get any special feats in the movie, I guess she'll just join the "Badasses who get worfed" club with the likes of Piccolo, Vegeta Sanousuke Sagara, Dinobot, Rhinox, and the Trope Namer himself.

See? Signum won't be totally alone.

@Gaunt88: Subaru's defeat it's not embarrasing because she's an apprentice, a character still growing and as such plotwise allowed to make mistakes cuz she has room to learn from then and become stronger. Cinque on the other hand was a terrorist cyborg with years of experience, so it makes understandable subaru had a hard time fighitng her, but Subaru nearly defeats her and even managed to left Cinque crippled for the rest of the season which was big damn impressive. Subaru is my fav character from Strikers for a reason xD

Actually Cinque is on my list because of a VERY debatable victory she scored on Signum on a Fan Fic whch also left Signum severely crippled which was resolved by giving her *sigh* cybernetic implants

About Cypha i was mad at her for the same reasons as Justin until just recently released Ch. 23. After Cypha defeated Signum she simple seats into the background without doing any other notiorus feat of villany or badassery which was pretty lame cuz that means Signum really lost to a nobody. The aformentioned chapter makes things a bit less jarring by allowing Cypha fighting an opponent on equal conditions(another reacted EC-Driver swordswoman) and came out victorious after an impressive Curb-Stomp Battle. Cyphas victory over Signum was largely questioned because of the questionable methods she used to win and the fact Signum totally whooped her ass during the first half of the fight when she was unreacted. But now Cypha's skills seems to be more justified(still doesn't change the fact that she relies a bit too much on her regeneration/hardened skin powers).

The main point with Signum is that she's an old seasoned pro. A veteran war fighter feared and respected by other characters and whose strenght has been implied or directly showed to us in some of the coolest fights of the franchise. Which makes a bit more difficult to allow her the change of mistakes since it's uncertain what kind of growth or developement a veteran super warrior like her could have. Suddenly she's weak, helpless and vulnerable. It happened in a flash and practically destroyed the concept i had of her until that point.

edited 25th Apr '12 10:01:02 PM by Akiyoshi

So you dislike Cinque because of something that happened...in a fanfic? Okay.

And no, beating some girl that showed up one chapter earlier doesn't do anything for Cypha's rep. Someone we know nothng about beating someone we also know nothing about is pretty much a double negative.

edited 25th Apr '12 9:51:55 PM by Justin_Brett

I know it's a bit irrational and you don't need to understand it. I like Cinque but since i've readed that fanfic that image of Signum mutilated and the gut-wrenching feeling returns to me everytime i get to see or hear of the eye-patched loli gambit. It's not fair to canon Cinque who is the coolest of the Numbers in my book so i hope to be able to get over it some day.

About the Worm Monster thing. It was indeed a very embarrassing moment for her(even Signum herself admits to be embarrassed by such a foolish mistake). But as we saw after that those worms aren't harmless at all(Nanoha AND Fate got both owned by the same kind of monster during their battle with Reinforce with Fate being in the need of going Sonic Form to relaease herself from it). Add to the fact that Signum probably after fighting several of those things for hours got confident and thus careless(Reinforce was able to summon the worms because Signum was able to defeat and absorb a bunch of these on first place). Not an excuse, that was really a pretty stupid mistake but fortunately Signum more than compensated for it during the rest of the season by being the Wolkenritter's "Allmighty Warrior"(i'm not making this up the book actually refered to her as that xD) whose prescence on the battlefield was notorious.

EDIT: Oh, and talking about Precia Tesstarossa. That's what i meant by saying Lindy is powerfull but probably not melee proficient, she hold her own against Precia by protecting people from interdimensional bombardment which alone is a very legit demonstration of Lindy's raw magical power. But Precia is pretty much a Glass Cannon. Signum even trashed her Dark Piece on the Gears of Destiny commenting she's indeed very powerfull but terribly slow and unskilled compared to Fate (gosh, Arf almost beats her until she got distracted enough for Precia to One-Blast KO her xDU). So yeah, being able to stand to Precia is nothing to gloat about in front of Signum since she's very capable of dealing with the evil mother on her own perfectly fine.

edited 25th Apr '12 10:19:20 PM by Akiyoshi

Nanoha isn't a melee fighter, either. She still put up a good fight in that one manga.

Not a pure-melee but she's melee capable, developing short casting cross-range spells to fulfill that exact purpouse(Cross Buster, Strike Smasher and Impact Cannon among others). She also have tons of experience molding her fightstyle to face off powerfull melee combatants since her very first battle againt another mage. Nanoha is less of a ship/base commander and more of a field leader, able to respond to most combat situations and an all-around balanced fighter.

Not to say Signum isn't also a very capable and adaptable mage(and also an experinced field leader with the wolkenritter) but she lacks Nanoha's wide veriety of resources which she compensate by having great mastery of the limited pool of moves she posses. The Blazing General also cashes on her bigger strenghes(melee strenght, power, speed and high-caliber defenses) to fight efficiently against most opponents not named Cypha.

Nanoha and Lindy are very different, Nanoha probably have the elements to be a worthy opponet to practically anyone xDU In fact, it was precisely seeing Signum being able to fight post-Strikers Nanoha to a stalemate(near-victory in the eyes of some) and WITHOUT upgrades what skyrocketed her badassitude to memetic status (cruelly deconstructed about two years latter in Force, of course T-T).

edited 25th Apr '12 10:47:52 PM by Akiyoshi

> Suzuka

Wait, who's Suzuka?

The purple of Nanoha's blonde and purple schoolmates from the first two seasons. Vaguely connected to Triangle Heart.

Also a muggle (Or possibly a vampire).

edited 26th Apr '12 8:51:12 AM by zzzdragon

Also hinted that she posses some sort of superhuman physical prowess as during a volleyball match she was able to catch a powerfull shot made do from the sky after doing a really high jump and not only that, Suzuka intercepted the speeding ball, inverted it's momentum and returned a powerfull shot directly at Fate who was still suspended on the air, knocking the blonde out of the sky. Arf and Amy who were watching the match both jawdropped xD

edited 26th Apr '12 10:44:23 AM by Akiyoshi

I'm hearing all around that the Hucks are invincible villain sues. While their smug snake tendency is very annoying, what are actually their defenses that make them impossible to defeat? I've heard many things, but I'd like a clarification.

As far as I know (I haven't read much past Kurren showing up), their virus grants an especially powerful brand of anti-magic. It completely dissolves any spells it comes into contact with. Essentially, their shields are impossible to break and their attacks are unblockable by conventional magic.

Oh, also, their bodies damage devices on contact and they can instantly regen lost limbs.

edited 27th Apr '12 3:51:01 AM by Gaunt88

All of this but the last one is par for the course of a very strong anti-magic field. The last one is simply trolling.

edited 27th Apr '12 3:53:59 AM by Sinclair

Aki, I'm gonna be honest, but you putting Cinque in black list just because what she did to Signum in a Fanfic!? Seriously!? Do I put Platinum into my black list because she tried imagining Litchi as the Evil Overlord "Boob Queen"!? (which would be 'very demeaning' to her 'reputation' and 'kindness') If I see someone make a fanfic of Jin (GIGANTIC TAGER)-ing Litchi in the most soul-crushing way possible, do I put Jin in my black list!?

Congratulations, I think you just redefined the term 'loony' that I thought I was being one. You made me proud, my young padawan.

But I think it's time for you to learn that Signum just avoided being a God-Mode Sue for this, which you should be grateful for.

edited 27th Apr '12 5:28:54 AM by ChrisX

I think one factor that increases the effects of Eclipse for the infectees is killing their empathy sense. I doubt if Huckebein been killed their empathy sense since the beginning.

RE: The whole Signum mess.

Several things need to be noted. First, Lindy is a mage; she has not spent her entire life in that chair and probably, like Chrono, served field duties. Second, she is competent enough in the field that she could be sent into a hot zone alone (when she attempted to stabilize the Garden of Time in MGLN), and that is a serious matter; her second in command and her security people (of which she apparently has some) would never allow their commander to enter an unsecured area alone unless they were absolutely convinced she could kick the ass of everything in it with both arms tied behind her back and blindfolded. Even a direct order from Lindy wouldn't stop them in this; such things a written up as standing orders from On High, and cannot be overridden by commanders on the scene.

This indicates that Lindy not only has combat experience, but retains sufficient proficiency in combat to be considered able to hold her own in and escape from dangerous situations. This probably hasn't been taken on faith; she's been required to prove it by some sort of training process or certification.

Second, Durandel. The Bureau is not, in fact, composed of fools no matter how much we the fans might sometimes pretend it is. We after all know more about the situation than the Bureau usually does. Admiral Graham, who dedicated a significant portion of his life, at the minimum a decade, to the cause of rendering the Book of Darkness safe, thought this weapon could do it. He was wrong, but the mere fact that a man of his position, with his goals, and his resources, was willing to stake his hopes on a Durandel, indicates we are dealing with an artifact of incredible power. A really good guy with a pistol is still at a serious disadvantage fighting a really bad guy with a P90.

Third, Levantine and Signum herself. We have discussed at various points that she has, at minimum, hundreds of years of experience. The number is probably measured in millenia, but we can't prove it. However, this carries certain constraints. Hundreds of years is an incredibly long time to a technological civilization. The theory and practice of crafting Devices, the creation of Barrier Jackets, the use of magic, has almost certainly advanced. The Wolkenritter can probably get around this normally because the Book plugs into an active mage is who is reasonably up to date on these things.

This one time, that is out the window. It connected to Hayate. She knows nothing. The Wolkenritter are behind the technical curve. They are, in effect, only as good as their last manifestation. We do not know where or when this is. It many not even have involved a society as advanced as the one they're currently dealing with. All we know is that their last major battle against the Bureau, and hence their last instance of coming into contact with Bureau state-of-the-art, was when the Book took over Clyde's Hestia. That was at least ten, and possibly as many as fifteen, years ago. Intelligent Device design and effectiveness is a computational science, we learned that during MGLN. It could advance very quickly in fifteen years. (I was using a 486DX back then, I think.)

There is a very real possibility that Signum during A's is significantly undergunned in comparison to the main characters. After A's is over, she would be able to correct this. (c.f. her fights with Fate being fair in A's vs. her fights with Fate in the manga after A's being completely unfair.)

edited 27th Apr '12 11:31:37 AM by Night

Basically the lesson here if is that if you give me four and a half hard facts, I can do nearly anything.

Holy shit this quote is win.