Pokémon General Thread

Mega Manectric strives in Gen 7 Doubles with the combination of its high speed, Intimidate and Snarl. Incineroar can do that, but it doesn't have the speed or room for Snarl.

It was part of the infamous Gothlax team (along with Landorus, Tapu Fini and Celesteela), it was at that time where people began seeing the value of Mega Mane in Gen 7 Doubles, ironically at the same time where the competition of Tapu Koko has made it a niche choice in OU.

That explanation may sound too simplistic, but that's the best I can provide.

Edited by HeatEdgeSword on Jan 23rd 2019 at 6:17:06 PM

Omanyte:

Yep. To this day Lugia remains one of the best Wall Pokemon in the game, for good reason. Granted, this came a the cost of being able to safely run an offensive set due to power creep, but that was never his selling point so it's an acceptable lost.

It's a shame because it actually has a pretty good offensive movepool.

Lugia in Doubles is interesting. While it does have Tailwind in conjunction with a gigantic bulk and/or Multiscale, Lugia is just a sitting duck after setting up a Tailwind with its lackluster offensive stats being its biggest issue, which is especially bad considering Doubles Ubers is way, way more offensive oriented compared to its Single counterpart. Ho-oh and Yveltal are better choices over it since they provide more than just setting Tailwind.

Edit: Oh yeah, and the lack of any other useful supporting moves.

Edited by HeatEdgeSword on Jan 28th 2019 at 12:48:12 AM

Doubles has always been offensive-oriented. Even sitting ducks like Cresselia can improve offense with Helping Hand.

Well, walls don't really work in doubles when your opponent can target the other mon (or use AoE attacks). Defense is still pretty important, though, since it's very hard to sweep, necessitating the ability to take a hit

Edited by Hylarn on Jan 28th 2019 at 3:41:48 AM

Unfortunately, Lugia seems to have a rather lackluster movepool when it comes to support moves.

Almost all its moves are offensive moves when it doesn't have the stats to back them up.

My only problem with the video is that it omits another Pokemon that eats Lugia up like breakfast in the modern day- Lunala. Moongeist Beam hits for super effective, and completely ignores Multiscale. That hurts, coming from 100 power and 137 special attack. Good video nonetheless. It's easy to forget, with today's standard of power being so damn high, that Lugia's dual 90 offenses were sufficient to be an offensive threat back then.

Unrelated- Zygarde should win an award for the most shafted legendary huh. It has three alternate formes, several special moves, and an ability that set it up as the mediator between Xerneas and Yveltal- yet the story of a hypothetical Z version where it became the focus only manifested in the anime, of all places. Zygarde thhen got clumsily forced into Sun and Moon, where its connection to Xerneas and Yveltal was downplayed and it did between "fuck" and "all".

Edited by mrsunshinesprinkles on Jan 28th 2019 at 9:05:06 PM

I can’t figure out why that happened either. X/Y sold really well, and I can’t figure out the logic behind abandoning a game that was clearly intended to exist in favour of a new generation on the same hardware.

With the director changing, I think Z just got lost in the shuffle

That's probably what happened. That kinda stings because it makes X and Y feel like the prelude to something that will never happen. There's also the Anistar Sundial, the mysterious Hex girl and a bunch of other mysteries that are just...there, forever.

It sucks more that Zygarde is super cool conceptually. It's clever how the guardian of the ecosystem is the mediator between the avatars of life and death - both essential to the flow of nature.

At the very least it's busted in a fight. Thousand Arrows is fucking ridiculous.

Edited by mrsunshinesprinkles on Jan 28th 2019 at 10:08:37 PM

Give it 10 years and the X/Y remakes will definitely expand the story.

The 20th anniversary creeping up after ORAS probably didn't help Z's chances.

That's most likely the reason. They probably wanted to make a theoretical "Z" but due to the 20th anniversary they were forced to abandon that idea for the next gen to celebrate it.

Really, while a "Z" would've helped X and Y the games had far many more problems that needed to be dealt with. A sequel or even a prequel would probably be better. Just start out a bit more fresh and such.

There was likely more setup for a prequel to X & Y than a sequel: You had 2 characters that would have served as either Rivals to a third "Defender of Kalos", or else actually be the Player Characters themselves.^note Said 2 characters also got shafted somewhat in Sun & Moon, primarily by having elements stuck onto them that didn't fit their dual-nature; I would have preferred that they had been doubles-masters including having the 3 Pledges. There was also the fact that 2 of the younger Gym Leaders in X & Y had older relatives that could serve in their steads in such a Prequel; either or both of said future GLs could have made for good minor rivals, with one of them, ironically, having Trevor's shtick in the Anime.

The only missing element would be the evil being^note not necessarily human that would either be effectively a Big Bad Wannabe to Lysandre, or else become X & Y's Greater-Scope Villain either by pushing Lysandre into darkness or else be the original founder of Team Flare with Lysandre as their Dragon.

There is the caution that having effectively 4 rivals in X & Y diluted things quite a bit, doubly so since they were all friendly. In my thought-project of converting Pokemon into Mega Man, only 1 of the 3 junior rivals had a notable enough style to get his own mode, and even that was an Informed Ability in the source material.^note Like other things in Gen 6, the Anime did it better, but nerfed its potential by, in this case, making the contest-equivalents girl only. Tierno for Top Coordinator! Perhaps the 2/3 "Defenders" would only grow so over time, with the Big Bad attempting to Divide and Conquer.

Edited by DonaldthePotholer on Jan 28th 2019 at 9:10:16 AM

Nah, you are reading far too deep into it. XY were very traditional, and the crumbs we got were very similar to those of DP, so, if anything, a third version, or paired third versions, would be the likely outcome.

But, alas, new gen for the 20th anniversary. And now cue Lets Go, and silence so far despite this year we supposedly getting Gen VIII.

Gimme Eternal Floette while we wait, if you please.

There is no way they wouldn't have taken to completion with the very obvious XYZ thing they had going on.

They were definitely going for Z as a typical third version, not sequels, prequels, or anything paired. Zygarde has just the one super form, and there's nothing in the story that really demands expansion beyond what we typically see

January is historically rather early for an announcement. I wouldn't worry about it

TBH, Zygarde having 2 secret moves in the code of XY could have pointed towards paired games, or something akin to what Necrozma got (2 mascot formes, AND a super, complete forme).

But, all in all, I'd expect a single Z.

Victini also has two signature moves (minus that one time an event Rayquaza had V-create). I don’t think that’s an indicator of anything.

And Kyurem had Glaciate by level up, and both Freeze Shock and Ice Burn in the code for BW, and I'd say that is closer to what Zygarde had in XY.

All you’ve done is show that correlation doesn’t equal causation. That might have been the plan. It might not have.

Also, Occam’s Razor. Given that they still went ahead with giving Zygarde its final form despite jumping past the theoretical game that would feature it, it makes more sense that there was only ever one final form planned for it, than that there was a second final form designed and abaondoned. They would have no reason to do that.

It's possible that they'd originally intended to make ZX and ZY, but I don't think the evidence points that way. Zygarde's current forms fit the lore pretty well, and thousand waves/arrows aren't really thematic to anything