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Draghinazzo My love, has dressed me like a clown Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
My love, has dressed me like a clown
Dec 3rd 2018 at 4:55:35 PM

Unless the murderer is Kristoph Gavin.

What exactly don't we know about Kristoph?

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine. ...not really though.
Hobgoblin Cool Blue Magic from Jylland Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
Cool Blue Magic
Dec 3rd 2018 at 6:17:14 PM

Case 1 didn't end with the why, is what I'm saying.

Also, black Psyche Locks.

Every argument with Shantotto will eventually become a rap battle.
DonaldthePotholer from Somewhere in (not)Miami
Dec 3rd 2018 at 6:25:31 PM

I'm not so sure the Psyche Locks had anything to do with the (delayed) murder itself. I'm thinking that they had more to do with why he felt it was necessary to forge evidence.

That's the hanging thread here. Right now, we're lead to believe that it was because he wanted to outdo his younger brother:

  • If so, then why is Kristoph that insecure?note 
  • If not, then we're back to square one.

Yumil mad archivist from France
mad archivist
Dec 3rd 2018 at 6:38:46 PM

no the black locks were definitely about the murder of zach. They pop up literally when questionning his mobile, and he dodges the question by claiming it must be because he's evil.

the "why forge evidence" is pretty much spelled out in the game : he wanted to destroy phoenix because he was passed down in favor of phoenix for the case. It's horrendously petty, but that's gavin to you, and the motive the writers intended for him.

Edited by Yumil on Dec 3rd 2018 at 3:41:39 PM

Hobgoblin Cool Blue Magic from Jylland Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
Cool Blue Magic
Dec 3rd 2018 at 6:40:57 PM

Yeah, there's a lot of interesting fraternal drama that could be explored between the Gavins. Klavier becomes a popular prosecutor at a young age while being a rocker. Kristoph, meanwhile, focuses solely on the law and still has to wait a good while before he can manage to make a name for himself.

Every argument with Shantotto will eventually become a rap battle.
Demongodofchaos2 Best Dad from Reality Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Best Dad
Dec 3rd 2018 at 7:15:35 PM

@ Draghinazzo: Just a question, who's your favorite final case antagonist in the series?

Mines a tie between Dahlia, Simon Keyes, and the final antagonist of Spirit of Justice (Not saying who sincer you haven't played 3DS games yet)

I don't fight for good, and I don't fight for evil, I JUST FIGHT! Augus, Asura's Wrath
Draghinazzo My love, has dressed me like a clown Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
My love, has dressed me like a clown
Dec 3rd 2018 at 7:16:02 PM

the "why forge evidence" is pretty much spelled out in the game : he wanted to destroy phoenix because he was passed down in favor of phoenix for the case. It's horrendously petty, but that's gavin to you, and the motive the writers intended for him.

Actually Apollo offers some speculation that makes it even worse: Kristoph initially forged the evidence for his own use to win the trial, but for his own sake and not Zak's. Zak obviously realized his horrible character when he played poker with the guy, and so Kristoph repurposed the forgery to destroy Phoenix's career.

[up]Simon and Kristoph, probably. The only thing I don't like about the latter is that the way you take him down feels very underwhelming.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Dec 3rd 2018 at 11:18:37 AM

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine. ...not really though.
Hobgoblin Cool Blue Magic from Jylland Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
Cool Blue Magic
Dec 3rd 2018 at 7:19:51 PM Every argument with Shantotto will eventually become a rap battle.
Draghinazzo My love, has dressed me like a clown Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
My love, has dressed me like a clown
Dec 3rd 2018 at 7:49:19 PM

I agree with the post about the subtle characterization of AJ being one of its strengths, but I actually feel like the lack of exploration between Kristoph and Klavier's relationship is one of the faults of the game. His relationship with Apollo is established but also feels like it was under-used and barely mattered when he was caught in the first trial. IMO it might have been more effective for Kristoph to be caught later so that you could build a proper relationship of trust with Kristoph, only for that to be hideously broken later when you find out he's a total piece of shit.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine. ...not really though.
Hobgoblin Cool Blue Magic from Jylland Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
Cool Blue Magic
Dec 3rd 2018 at 8:04:12 PM

There definitely needed to be a tutorial case before Turnabout Trump.

Every argument with Shantotto will eventually become a rap battle.
SpookyMask Insert title from Corner in round room Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Insert title
Dec 4th 2018 at 1:30:52 AM

So huh, second anime season and stuff. Seems like they are making new episodes since presumable adapting one game isn't enough content for full season. I kinda wonder if anime original episodes will be better than first season's adapted ones

Time to change the style, for now
Hobgoblin Cool Blue Magic from Jylland Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
Cool Blue Magic
Dec 4th 2018 at 3:59:18 PM

Are they going to do 2-1?

Every argument with Shantotto will eventually become a rap battle.
Bluethorn Returning Assist Trophy from Smash Bros. Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Returning Assist Trophy
Dec 4th 2018 at 4:37:12 PM

Didn't they do 2-1 already? The wiki says it aired on October 6th.

My novel: The Armadillo with No Heart
Dec 4th 2018 at 5:19:40 PM

2-1 was the first episode of the new season.

Rise from the Ashes is what seems to be getting the shaft.

Golden Sun The Lost Age Liveblog (ongoing)
Bluethorn Returning Assist Trophy from Smash Bros. Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Returning Assist Trophy
Dec 4th 2018 at 5:22:05 PM

A pity, IMO. Rise from the Ashes is my favorite episode from the first game.

My novel: The Armadillo with No Heart
KusaMigeru from AAAAAAAMAAAAAAZOOOOOOON Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Dec 5th 2018 at 1:28:25 AM

They're probably saving 3-1 and 3-4 for when they do 3-5. I bet they're gonna show them as flashbacks during Phoenix's research in the hospital.

As for me, this filler case reeks of Murder on the Orient Express, which I quite enjoyed. So, let's wait and see.

Happy Holidays, everyone! Here's to a new year where we can be happy without getting screwed too much. In a bad way, I mean :P
Winter Silent Musketeer
Silent Musketeer
Dec 5th 2018 at 3:43:48 AM

3-1 will be getting an hour-long special next month. I've always loved the ending of that case.

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2018-10-30/ace-attorney-season-2-anime-gets-1-hour-prequel-special-in-january/.138815

Also, my understanding is that the Phoenix Wright trilogy was originally a set of GBA games and Rise from the Ashes was an addition to the DS rerelease. If we look at the anime as an adaptation of that version, it makes sense to omit that case. Ema's pretty much the only element to carry over to any of the later games, though I suppose the background does contribute to the Dark Age of the Law thing mentioned in Dual Destinies.

Edited by Winter on Dec 5th 2018 at 6:48:52 AM

asterism Pluto Loves You Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Pluto Loves You
Dec 5th 2018 at 3:59:45 AM

I didn't even think of that.

Yeah in hindsight, the Chief of Police forging evidence and blackmailing the Prosecutor's Office isn't exactly the sort of thing to inspire confidence in the law.

ED: It's funny how the Dark Age of the Law doesn't really kick in until after most of the corrupt people are removed from office.

Edited by asterism on Dec 5th 2018 at 12:00:27 PM

Devil Trigger
Kayeka World's biggest wannabe from Amsterdam Relationship Status: Brony
World's biggest wannabe
Dec 5th 2018 at 5:32:53 AM

[up]The new people probably forgot to pinky-swear to never do it again.

People say I have a problem with authority. I say that authority has a problem with me.
Weirdguy149 The most dangerous salesman from Sega Headquarters Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
The most dangerous salesman
Dec 5th 2018 at 5:38:06 AM

There were only, like, 4 corrupt people there. Granted, two of them were top prosecutors and another one was the chief of police, but semantics.

SEGA SATURN!
Hobgoblin Cool Blue Magic from Jylland Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
Cool Blue Magic
Dec 5th 2018 at 3:17:56 PM

Ace Attorney 4 had a better mood for a Dark Age of the Law than 5.

Prove me wrong.

Every argument with Shantotto will eventually become a rap battle.
KusaMigeru from AAAAAAAMAAAAAAZOOOOOOON Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Dec 6th 2018 at 1:54:14 AM

But technically, AA 4 was the Dark Age's rock bottom. It just began to end with Nick's innocence being proved.

Happy Holidays, everyone! Here's to a new year where we can be happy without getting screwed too much. In a bad way, I mean :P
asterism Pluto Loves You Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Pluto Loves You
Dec 6th 2018 at 3:45:48 AM

Yes, instead of one defence attorney forging evidence it was a different one for infinitely more petty reasons.

Devil Trigger
Bluethorn Returning Assist Trophy from Smash Bros. Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Returning Assist Trophy
Dec 6th 2018 at 4:49:55 AM

UR-1 was what actually triggered the dark age of the law; the Gramarye trial only contributed to it. That's why it didn't actually begin to end until after Turnabout for Tomorrow.

Also, I'm not sure AJ can be considered the point where the legal system reached rock bottom, since outside of Kristoph being arrested for murder and later being found to have forged evidence, the corruption in the legal system isn't really brought up in that game at all. DD has it tie into the plot a lot more, with said corruption forming the entire backstory to episode 3, the destroyed courtroom being symbolic of the court system in ruins, people like Aura who were personally affected by the corrupt legal system, and so on.

Edited by Bluethorn on Dec 6th 2018 at 8:00:15 AM

My novel: The Armadillo with No Heart
Weirdguy149 The most dangerous salesman from Sega Headquarters Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
The most dangerous salesman
Dec 6th 2018 at 5:10:15 AM

I'd argue that Daryan is a case where the corruption was there, but not spelled out.

SEGA SATURN!

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