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Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#85601: Dec 21st 2018 at 6:23:47 AM

So, Kisuke injected Yoruichi with a drug that turned her into a scantily-clad electric cat, and the last time we saw them was when they fought Askin.

Has there been any elaboration on what happened to her afterward?

Edited by Soble on Dec 21st 2018 at 6:24:53 AM

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Aquaconda Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#85602: Dec 21st 2018 at 7:17:46 AM

I think she refused to talk to him again.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: Aug, 2015
The Head of the Hydra
#85603: Dec 21st 2018 at 7:19:43 AM

Knowing what he did to her, I’d do the same if I was in her place.

Edited by slimcoder on Dec 21st 2018 at 7:19:56 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#85604: Dec 21st 2018 at 8:01:37 AM

With Bleach's usual terrible standards on tolerating abusive behavior, that is quite refreshing.

KnightofLsama Since: Sep, 2010
#85605: Dec 21st 2018 at 2:30:14 PM

I think she refused to talk to him again.

And there was much rejoicing from Sui-Feng

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#85606: Dec 21st 2018 at 3:12:18 PM

At what point did everyone decide to go with the Pinyin spelling of her name? I remember in the old official translations it was always transcribed as "Soi fon".

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#85607: Dec 21st 2018 at 3:15:19 PM

That's how Kubo spells it, apparently. From a databook or something.

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#85608: Dec 21st 2018 at 3:18:31 PM

And that's the correct Chinese pinyin but it's weird to see everything suddenly change. If i bought an old volume today would it say soifon or Sui Feng? It's like when Orihime's brother's name mysteriously changed from Kakei to Sora .

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Saiga (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#85609: Dec 21st 2018 at 3:22:16 PM

That's not really the same because it's not like Kubo is writing the English version.

bandersnitch Since: Aug, 2016
#85610: Dec 29th 2018 at 11:59:25 AM

There was recently a life-event for Bleach Brave Souls where among others, Narita was invited. It was revealed that the voice actor for Tokinada is Kenjiro Tsuda best known for his role of Seto Kaiba. Hikone is going to be voiced by Ayumu Murase most famous for voicing Hinata.

They also advertised that we are going find a lot about Yhwach in the novel, backstory, insight into him, probably how he is doing as the Soul King and what not. Also, Ichigo's VA can't pronounce "Can't fear your own world". He tripped over the "own world" several times.

If any of you play Brave Souls, there will be new characters from the final arc. So far we had: Shunsui, Byakuya, Komamura, Hitsugaya, Kenpachi, Yachiru, Unohana, Renji, Rukia, Shikai Ichigo, Urahara, Yoruichi, Bankai Ichigo and Yhwach.

The other Espada + Nel will get new transcended forms like Ulquiorra did. And Ichigo will get a new What If? form. This time it's this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cM06dNn1jc

     Pages 54 to 94 of the novels have been machine-translated. 

- Hisagi arrives in the Valley of Screams. There he finds a make-shift Soul King crystal barrier. Hikone meets him and refers to the container as his throne. The two discuss the idea of evil and justice. Hikone says that he only exists for Tokinada. He considers him justice and believes that the Shinigami are enemies, which was a call-back to Haschwalth's words, when he stated that the Shinigami are the enemies of the Soul King. Hikone knocks Hisagi out and may have used Senka on him. He leaves to join Tokinada on the battlefield.

- Hikone has grow exponentially stronger within the last few days. It's kinda like how Ichigo grew. Tokinada introduces Hikone as the Soul King of the next era. Kyoraku calls this the height of disrespect, whereas Tokinada calls it the height of respect to replace the Soul King, given the kind of existence the Soul King is. Harribel is simply disgusted that Tokinada would sacrifice a child to Soul Society.

- Ikomikidomoe has a third release command. "Hatch the deceased". This allows Ikomikidomoe to transform into the form of the soul that was used to create the Zanpakto. According to Harribel, Ikomikidomoe used to be an ancient Hollow who had lived during Barragan's time. It is unknown why it ended up as a Zanpakto or why Oetsu did it in the first place but it wasn't a voluntary thing and the noble families might have been involved. What is also implied is that Ikomikidomoe used to be the original ruler of Hueco Mundo. It seems to hate Barragan, Harribel and Aizen for sitting on his throne. Especially Barragan for turning his kingdom into a wasteland. It is a cylopean beast that somewhat resembles Hooler and is described as a beast that could end the world by simply killing everyone on it and far beyond any Hollow. This all also implies that Barragan may be equally ancient, like a million years old.

- The Espada release but Ikomikidomoe causes an explosion that heavily injures some of the Arrancar though Harribel can migate the damage somewhat with her water shield.

- Hikone can condense a Cero into the form of an arrow and fire it with a Quincy bow. The bow itself is hardened by Blut Vene. Apparently Hikone can do what Ichigo should, if he had bothered to train.

It is unclear why Hikone can wield the Zanpakto in the first place. Since it is a Hollow based Zanpakto, most Shinigami would commit Soul Suicide trying to wield it. Kyoraku wonders if it is because Hikone has parts of the Soul King inside him that he can avoid that. If that is true, that would have interesting implications for Ichigo and Ginjou who also would be able to wield Ikomikidomoe. But whatever it is, makes the three eligible to become the next Soul King.

- Kyoraku uses a new game. Yubikiri Genmen. If you lie to each other, your fingers get paralyzed on the first lie; your whole body feels like it is getting crushed by a fist on the second lie and finally, on the third lie, you feel unimaginable pain as if your viscera were being stabbed from the inside. It was a technique meant to extract information from the kind of opponent who lies during battle, but it worked on people 'other than one's own self'. This game had one single disadvantage. As long as the game is activated, the wielder is not allowed to lie.It's possible that Kyoraku tried to use this game against Starrk because he asked Starrk a few truth/false questions but Katen Kyotsu was not in the mood, so nothing happened.

- Kyoraku tried to make Tokinada lie by asking if he really had no involvment in the execution of Nanao's mother. To both their disappoinment, he really did not. Tokinada then uses the game against Kyoraku and making him admit that he and Nanao are hiding the Ise sword. Tokinada provokes Kyoraku further, wondering if he should make that secret public, which would lead to Shunsui's and Nanao's execution. But then Tokinada just laughs it off. He admits that he always had a suspicion and actually had tried to reveal the secret and execute the two in the past, but Byakuya's grandfather rejected the proposition. This entire scene was one of the few moments where Kyoraku completely lost his composure. Tokinada also revealed that the Tsunayahiro family was very adamant on getting their hands on the Ise sword.

- But Kyoraku gets back at Tokinada by making him reveal that Koten Kyoku is not the name of Tokinada's Zanpakto.Kyoraku figured it out because the kanji of Tokinada's Zanpakto are so similar to his own and Tokinada would be the kind of person to lie about such things. It's a fake release just like Yumichika's and apparently at some point Yumichika seemed to have revealed his secret. Or at least Kyoraku knows.

- The release of the Zanpakto is "Sip from the four seas; the heavenly shores entwine; equally duplicate ten thousands; and sharpe. Enrakyoten (law of the bewitching lucid mirror)." Interestingly, part of the release is to get wounded. The opposite of Isshin. Enrakyoten can manipulate light and heal so far and in its partially released state it can mirror attacks. If the spoilers about being able to copy Zanpakto are true, then Tokinada might just have copied Kinpika and Minazuki.

Edited by bandersnitch on Dec 29th 2018 at 12:11:40 PM

OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#85611: Dec 29th 2018 at 12:16:59 PM

Ayumu Murase also is Satan from Devil Man. Which fits a genderless being like Hikone.

Also so Barragan is why Hueco Mundo is a desert?

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Dec 29th 2018 at 12:21:35 PM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#85612: Dec 30th 2018 at 3:58:08 PM

Kubo did take it rather far in making the Quincy's as whole varying degree's of psychopaths instead of just having the psychopathy confined to fewer members who's strength justifies keeping them on board despite being potential team-killers.

It was disappointing, too. Right at the start of the manga, the Quincies were set up with the possibility of being both problems and victims, with the Shinigami the same (good and evil at different times to each other, but destined to work together eventually, if only to defeat a common enemy).

Even as far into the story as the beginning of the final arc, the manga was still pushing the concept of 'everyone is evil in war' and 'both sides have reasons and feel they're justified', which allowed for the possibility of the Quincies being no better or worse than the Shinigami.

And then the final arc went side ways.

But this was a standard problem for Kubo. Even before his health problems started, arcs would always start strongly, go side-ways and end in a rushed mess. The Substitute Shinigami Arc of the manga, the Soul Society Arc, The Arancar Arc, The Lost Agent Arc, The Thousand Year Blood War Arc. All five arcs had this in common: strong start, then wobbles, then sudden side-ways shift and rush a messy ending.

Even Kubo and his wife thought Orihime's outfit was too much.

That's an understatement. When Matsumoto and Yoruichi look modest by comparison, you've made a mistake.

It's a fake release just like Yumichika's and apparently at some point Yumichika seemed to have revealed his secret. Or at least Kyoraku knows.

That doesn't surprise me. Charlotte pointed out the problem with Yumichika faking a shikai when they fought over the pillar: All Yumichika's release did was turn one blade into many. It did absolutely nothing else. Someone who is supposed to be as experienced and perceptive as Kyoraku really should be able to figure out that Yumichika's faking his Shikai.

Regarding Hueco Mundo. I don't just want to know about the desert. I want to know about the eternal night as well. And why the desert apparently lies over a forest below the ground (given that Shinigami whose name I've temporarily forgotten was supposed to be canon but Kubo didn't have time to fit him into the manga).

Edited by Wyldchyld on Dec 30th 2018 at 12:58:05 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Kakuzan Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to. from Knock knock, open up the door, it's real. Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to.
#85613: Dec 30th 2018 at 4:37:55 PM

While there are quite a few things that show Soul Society not being super great(some present early, others from towards the end and the novels), Kubo went too far in making the Quincies as a whole incredibly douchey. The Nazi vibes really didn't help either.

Edited by Kakuzan on Dec 30th 2018 at 7:50:07 AM

Don't catch you slippin' now.
bandersnitch Since: Aug, 2016
#85614: Dec 30th 2018 at 7:01:29 PM

Only a minority of the Sternritter are imo evil. Only Quilge, Äs Nödt, Bambietta, Pepe, Giselle and Gremmy. Outside of Pepe and Quilge, they still were portrayed in manner that either invoked some sympathy/pity or made them entertaining. The other Sternritter, while more ruthless, can imo be categorized as either neutral or good, morality wise.Though I think that the idea that both sides were equally good/evil still stands. Individually, the Wandenreich may have more evil members, but collectively, the Gotei 13 is worse, since they committed way more crimes.

Even if every Quincy had the same morality as, let's say Szayel, it still wouldn't count as good vs evil. Because despite everything, the Wandenreich fights for a noble reason. To undo the original sin by bringing back the utopia that was the previous world and release the Soul King from his Fate Worse than Death. They would have essentially solved all the problems, Soul Society had, like Hollows or the horrible afterlife. Furthermore, the Quincy believed that if they did not fight, their entire race would face extinction, which is not untrue. The Shinigami tried to wipe them out twice and would have done a third time, if it weren't for Haschwalth's sacrifice.

The Shinigami on the other hand are fighting to keep a deliberate Crapsack World of an afterlife, that is Powered by a Forsaken Child, around. Not to mention they genocided the Quincy because they were trying to undo Soul Society's problems and the Shinigami were the ones who had started the Blood War in the first place, when they invaded the Lichtreich. Also, the Shinigami did act less good in the final arc, compared to previous ones.

Edit: A new part of Can't fear your own world has been translated. We are now at 107 translated pages. This time we get some character development from Grimmjow and we learn about Hisagi's inner soul world and the true nature of Kazeshini. Also, apparently, Yukio and Aura have their own little plan that seems to be beneficial for Hisagi. I will just copy and past the Grimmjow and Hisagi part, since that is imo easier than just explaining it in bullet points.

     Grimmjow 
Palace Courtyard:-

"It's only been half a day and your reiatsu has risen considerably."

Grimmjow told Hikone as he fought off the Quincies. Hikone answered with a smile,

"Yes! It is all thanks to you! Ikomikidomoe is indebted to you!"

Hikone's personality had not changed but his reiatsu kept rising by several stages. But Grimmjow was not surprised. Even back in the Rukongai, he had almost mistaken Hikone for someone else, because his reiatsu had been very different than when he was in Hueco Mundo. Things could turn unpleasant if he displayed any further evolution. Grimmjow knew another Shinigami who had evolved remarkably within a very short period of time and who continued to grow even during battle.

"...He is like Kurosaki.."

Grimmjow muttered as if in soliloquy.

"That's right! I will become the king, yes!"

Hikone replied brightly.

"Is that so? What a coincidence! I share the same opinion as yours!"

Grimmjow laughed aloud. Hearing Grimmjow's words, Ikomikidomoe, the zanpakuto that had turned into a beast, responded with a cocky laugh.

"Well said, young Arrancar..."

A voice seemed to reverberate from deep within the earth.

"A kid like you ruling over Hueco Mundo! Ha ha ha!"

"Well, what can I say... I don't know why you're a zanpakuto, but you're supposed to be on our side."

"On the same side? The hubris, honestly. Lee la runa. I had to crawl across the desert and travel by bus to reach Baraggan 2 ken* away, and you are 11 ken away."

{t/n: Lee la runa- Spanish for 'read the runes'. You know, as in 'read the signs' spoken in an annoyed tone. It was in Spanish in the text, by the way. This Hollow seems to like foreign and modern words, since he actually uses the word 'bus'; 'Ken'-Japanese unit of measurement of length}

Grimmjow laughed at those unusual words, baring his teeth.

"Apparently, it seems like I was right in coming here."

He moved towards Ikomikidomoe, his reiatsu boiling over. The reason why he decided to chase after Hikone ever since he had left Hueco Mundo was because of certain words; words that Grimmjow could never forget.

"I don't give a damn about what you want. I'll kill anyone who stands in my way and then devour them."

The memories of his past were what drove his base instinct.

-"Let us go together, Grimmjow."

-"You shall become our king."

Every time Grimmjow stepped in closer, his sinews tightened. Yes, it was evident that this Shinigami in front of him was dangerous. Yes, this child's youthful appearance was misleading and the creature's Adjuchas-like look masked by the reiatsu of a very high class Hollow was unnerving indeed. Grimmjow understood all that. This Shinigami named Hikone emitted reiatsu which was very similar to that of Kurosaki Ichigo but no Hollow hole had opened up for the world to see. It was essentially a living thing. If the soul itself is considered to represent the world, then; it was as if the hole gets punctured the more the world became crowded.

Ikomikidomoe, on the other hand, was the complete opposite. It was like the very personification of greed; pounding everything towards its hole. It could be referred to as a monster, the same as Baraggan, the former king of Hueco Mundo.

Sharpening his reiatsu, he walked forward.

-"We have come to the realization that we are not destined to rise above the Adjuchas level."

-"But you are meant for something far greater."

Grimmjow took another step further.

Thoughts of losing faded from his mind. He did understand, however, that this was not an opponent he could easily win against; in fact, if he wasn't careful, he would be the one whose neck would go flying instead.

But Grimmjow would never stop walking.

After all, this was an internal strife among the Shinigami; he would never become their foot soldier. Well, Grimmjow did come here of his own free will. He did not really consider Tokinada's ideas to be ridiculous. He, too, did not mind watching the world break down. He realized that this idea was unusual and that it was unfortunate that Tokinada was the enemy, but he had come all this way from Hueco Mundo because he thought that Tokinada's idea was not too different from his own.

It was because he knew. He knew that a trivial reason was enough for him to turn the world into his enemy, given his way. That was his sole purpose for fighting against Hikone and Ikomikidomoe. To ordinary people, this would sound ludicrous. When he was dominated by the overwhelming personality of Aizen, his desire was still suppressed. But during his battle against Kurosaki Ichigo, the words once spoken by his former comrades were brought to the surface. The very words, if neglected, would lead him to deny his own existence and bloodlust.

-"Devour us, Grimmjow."

The voice of his comrades resounded within his head; his comrades who had called him king and had later given up on their path to evolution. They, who had once become his own flesh and blood, now gave rise to Grimmjow's bestial instincts.

Halibel, the real ruler, who was also aware of Grimmjow's nature, never addressed herself as a ruler precisely because of this. She knew that the moment he called himself that, he would regain his instinct to kill. Even if he lost, he would invariably sink his fangs into his opponent's body.

Aizen's words were

"Do not deny your desires."

Condensing his reiatsu on the claws of both his hands, Grimmjow sprang forward, his face predative and ravenous, ready to plunder and bring about destruction.

"I am the king!"

     Hisagi 
A persistent jet-black wind rotates the cog-wheels.

A jet black wind scatters the young foliage.

Singing its worth, the same wind that surrounds life and death.

-"Dedicate."

He heard a voice.

Hisagi realized that he was standing atop a large tree. A shower of green leaves fell around him, giving off the illusion of a forest at first glance. Hisagi's feet were touching a thick branch; and through the small gap among the leaves, a clearing was visible little above the ground. The scenery appeared foggy and a gigantic tree came into view. Its proportions were massive enough to call it the Yggdrasil.

{t/n: Yggdrasil-Also known as the World Tree; a mythical tree that connects the nine realms in Norse cosmology. It is interesting to note that this World Tree is quite often depicted as the Tree of Knowledge from the Garden of Eden. And the Biblical 'original sin' was after all heavily connected to the Tree of Knowledge. And in this story, the kanji for the Soul Society's original sin is written in the same way as the Biblical one. Also, the tree symbolism comes from Hisagi's name; the kanji in his surname reads as the Japanese cypress}

"Ah... So you have come?"

Hisagi recalled that this was not the real world.

"....Since I had arrived at the Reiokyu."

Hearing metallic sounds and iron clanging behind him, he looked back and saw a huge windmill standing upon the vast plains visible through the branches. Even though it was a windmill, it resembled a cedar tree to which clung the odour of iron and oil that could be smelled from afar, the description of the scenery matching that of an idyll.

The red, rusty windmill had a cog-wheel with a pulley exposed to the outside; it kept rotating as the chain connecting it to the windmill's rope pulls it.

Hisagi now knew that this was the inner spiritual world of Kazeshini's; one that his heart had inter-woven.

Then, a black wind blew all around him; discolouring the green leaves as they all withered away. The cog-wheel of the windmill started turning vigorously as it violently rotated.

-"Dedicate."

That voice, again.

Hisagi replied to the familiar voice with his usual response.

"Discipline yourself. I will not do as you say. I will not fight to make you suck the enemy's blood."

Ignoring Hisagi's words, the black wind kept on blowing.

The lamp in the wind turbine lit up. It was as if the leaves, the branches and the serenity of the landscape, which had signified 'life', until the red rust-covered windmill withered it away, was on one side; and the fire lighting up the windmill symbolized the advent of 'death'.

"Good grief... I think there is something that I was able to understand."

The black wind now took on the form of a person and appeared behind Hisagi.

"Am I to understand that this is your form, Kazeshini?"

In retrospect, Kazeshini certainly did have a form like this.

"That's right. I am your shadow and the shadow of the world itself that you see around you. Depending on the manner in which the light strikes, this form may change its appearance, way of speech and everything. But, if you talk to me, you may find this form's tone to be very agreeable."

Exasperated with this unusually long conversation with the black shadowy figure, Hisagi spoke in annoyance,

"I see. So if you are capable of changing your nature, then all the chats I've had with you until now were all pointless?"

"Incorrect. You certainly understood one side of me, and that's why you could achieve Shikai by calling out my name. That is why, I..... this world of 'Kazeshini', has invited you in."

The shadowy form changed back into the black wind and passed through Hisagi's body, pouring words craving with desperation into Hisagi's soul.

"Dedicate your blood and life to appease my soul. Hurry."

Edited by bandersnitch on Dec 30th 2018 at 7:15:18 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#85615: Dec 30th 2018 at 7:02:38 PM

Can we not do this again with whitewashing the borderline Nazi-esque legion of fanatics who include an abusive sexual predator whose entire society is based around fanatic loyalty to a sadistic, tyrannical, borderline genocidal psychopath who mass murders his own people?

Edited by Lightysnake on Dec 30th 2018 at 7:03:27 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: Aug, 2015
The Head of the Hydra
#85616: Dec 30th 2018 at 7:05:18 PM

Ya know now that I think about it, the nazi-imagery is now bugging me.

Because of course the German-inspired group has to be nazi’s. Seriously Kubo, ya couldn’t think of anything more clever or creative than Goddamn nazi’s?

Edited by slimcoder on Dec 30th 2018 at 7:05:49 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#85617: Dec 30th 2018 at 7:24:07 PM

I mean I don't think calling them good is right, but I can definitely see a few being neutral, especially as the neutral ones don't engage in the pointless cruelty others engaged in.

[up] Japan sill use anything for aesthetics and looking cool no matter how insensitive it is, or the fans embrace an ideology thats Nazi or tyrannical the author portrayed as being very wrong. Zeon for example.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Dec 30th 2018 at 7:26:39 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
bandersnitch Since: Aug, 2016
#85618: Dec 30th 2018 at 7:37:09 PM

[up][up][up]

You know, that one could easily describe Soul Society with the same words. Like it or not, that there are depraved people on either sides, doesn't change that both the Wandenreich and the Gotei fought for what they believed would be a better world. And neither is really wrong either. It boils down to ones own system of ideals, which is better.

[up][up] The Wandenreich incorporates aspects from all of german/european history. From the Aesir of norse mythology, to Crusaders to Teutonic Knights/Knight Hospitalers to the Pickelhauben to Nazis and finally the angelic army, Jesus commanded. As much as we don't want to, the Third Reich is a part of that. Yhwach himself is partly Charlemagne, Odin, Jesus, YHWH, Hitler, Otto von Bismark, Wilhelm II. and after his defeat, Ymir.

The six pointed star symbolizes this amalgamation of cultures quite well, because it represents several real life symbols. It is the nordic Hagal rune, meaning hail, it is the IX monogram, the symbol of Christ, it is the Star of Life, that is associated with hospitals around the world and it is the the emblem of 6th SS Mountain Division Nord, representing faith in Nazism.

With the Nazi symbolism specifically it is because the Teutonic symbols were later adopted by the Nazis. There is also the parallel of the Germans and the Wandenreich fighting a war to end all wars, the idea of a thousand-year long empire, which incidentally also fits the Christian symbolism. There is a lot of parallel symbolism used by the Wandenreich that can represent several things. For example, they have incorporated both elements from the Aesir and the Asura, who in turn, despite being from two different cultures have a connection to the point that in Zoroastrianism they are one and the same.

In my opinion the religious and angelic elements are the strongest. Yhwach's goal, his actions, crimes, his origins and the how the final arc goes are greatly inspired by the actions of Jesus in Revelation.

Edited by bandersnitch on Dec 30th 2018 at 7:46:00 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#85619: Dec 30th 2018 at 7:39:45 PM

You know, that one could easily describe Soul Society with the same words. Like it or not, that there are depraved people on either sides, doesn't change that both the Wandenreich and the Gotei fought for they believed

'Fighting for what you believe' is not really mitigating when 'what you believe' is that a genocidal fascist should rule the world and be able to do whatever he wants.

Soul Society's key players have shown the ability to challenge the status quo and for introspection. By definition, the Vandenreich cannot do the same because it is little more than Yhwach's personality cult.

bandersnitch Since: Aug, 2016
#85620: Dec 30th 2018 at 7:44:34 PM

The reason Shinigami and Quincy are fighting is because the Quincy want to change the status quo desperately. In fact, the problem is that their desire to change it is too extreme, while the Shinigami were in the opposite direction and needed Ichigo to change in their ways. And even, it is clear that they are sill not at a good place, considering that they still enforce the Soul King system.

There is a reason the arm representing progress was fighting for the Quincy and the arm representing stagnation for the Shinigami. The Quincy care for how the world should be, no matter what and the Shinigami for how the world is, no matter what. Neither side realized that ones needs to balance the two extremes, so that proper change can happen.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#85621: Dec 30th 2018 at 7:51:18 PM

Again, though. The Vandenreich's entire cornerstone is devotion to a sadistic fascist. Nothing will change that. And the goal of the Quincy was stagnation.

Edited by Lightysnake on Dec 30th 2018 at 7:51:47 AM

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#85622: Dec 30th 2018 at 7:55:32 PM

Bander, the problem isn't that Soul Society doesn't have serious issues, it's that you like to pretend the Vandenreich have good qualities that they never display in the text. Its why seeing you play Devil's Advocate for them all the time is confusing and now tiresome.

bandersnitch Since: Aug, 2016
#85623: Dec 30th 2018 at 8:04:42 PM

[up][up]

Yhwach didn't realize that, hence why Aizen had to explain it to him. And regardless of what kind of person Yhwach is, he was trying to create a perfect world with neither fear, suffering, nor death.

[up] But it was shown in the text. Like entire thing with the Soul King, for example. It was shown that he suffered from a fate worse than death and that Yhwach wanted to save him from that and also prevent that Ichigo suffers the same fate.

Also, subtext is important, since it is part of Kubo's writing style to put a lot into the subtext, so that people can debate over that. By his own admission, he would be proud of this entire discussion. Whether that is good thing or not, is for everyone themselves to decide, but it is how Bleach is written.

Edited by bandersnitch on Dec 30th 2018 at 8:07:09 AM

Kakuzan Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to. from Knock knock, open up the door, it's real. Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to.
#85624: Dec 30th 2018 at 8:06:35 PM

And now I'm sorry I brought up the Nazi thing.

Edit: I am now wondering if how Soul Society is run (or used to run) is intentional social commentary or not.

Edited by Kakuzan on Dec 30th 2018 at 11:11:07 AM

Don't catch you slippin' now.
bandersnitch Since: Aug, 2016
#85625: Dec 30th 2018 at 8:20:36 PM

It is based on Feudal Japan, after all. Intentionally or not, it criticized that to some degree. The story of the Soul King, does parallel what happened to the Emperor. The Emperor was just a figure with no real power. Once the emperor did, but after the Shogunate was created and the shoguns cam in power, the emperor lost his power. It was now the Shoguns who had the power. This also marked the end of the classical Japanese period (the Heian era) and started the beginning of the feudalistic era (the Kamakura era). That roughly mirrors the story of the Soul King, who lost his power and is controlled by the Shinigami. The loss of his power and the rise of the Shinigami marked the end of the old world and the creation of Soul Society. Squad Zero is I think based on the Council of Five Elders, who pretended that Hideyoshi is still ruling, despite being dead. The same thing with the Soul King, who is in truth rather dead. Which might give some idea to what the Gorosei from One Piece hides, since they are also based on the Council of Five Elders.

But I think Kubo stated it is a philosophical commentary. There is no life without death. We need death and fear to progress. Or rather we can progress despite death and fear existing. So, Yhwach represents the misguided belief that the world is better without fear and death, when it is perfect. Given the heavy parallels to Christianity and that Yhwach's world is the end-goal of all abrahamic religions, Kubo might have either intentionally or unintentionally given commentary to that.

Edited by bandersnitch on Dec 30th 2018 at 8:22:26 AM


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