During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Woagh
Cut AM, I guess.
Lawrence is a strange one. We're definitely keeping SCP-106 proper, though.
Actually, if it is 106's backstory, why don't we just fuse the two together?
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Oh yeah, right.
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Dec 9th 2020 at 9:26:38 AM
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Goku Black
Honestly the way it's written sounds like Lawrence lost his mind thanks to something.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
It is not his backstory. As mentioned before, the canon is all over the place. I remember one story actually makes him sympathetic. Keep the original, cut Lawrence and AM.
Woagh
You know what? On the topic of SCP Canon being Nonexistent, wouldn't that have an effect on the heinous standards? It is restricted to one universe at a time, after all, and each SCP is basically its own universe.
I wasn't defending them, don't worry. I'm just curious.
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Dec 9th 2020 at 9:33:29 AM
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Yes to the quote from Wick...guys? Someone asks "thoughts on X"
Don't ignore them
Okay, I am not looking to start a debate with the heinous standard caused by Alternate Universe shenanigans. AM and Lawrence should be cut regardless of the heinous standards, their stories are too short and vague to make anything of them.
EDIT: Oh, and ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Wick Quote
EDIT 2: The editing: Thoughts on AM and Lawrence?
Edited by YearOfTheRabbit on Dec 9th 2020 at 1:33:21 PM
Lizzid people!
Sure, I like the Wick quote. Yeah, agreed with the cuts due to the ambiguity of the stories.
Edited by AustinDR on Dec 9th 2020 at 9:52:21 AM
The Dragon
Wick quote sounds fine. Should we count him as an incarnation of God, as his entry states that he directly inspired the Abrahamic God?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to the quote.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Am & Lawrence.
Goku Black
wick quote
to General Bazra Bearmors, Prince Rudo and The Emperor.
Hello. I wonder if anyone from Ninjago counts as a CM.
The Wick quote is good.
Current tally of Emperor votes by my count - 7 yes, 1 tentative yes, 1 leaning yes. I'll give it the day to let others speak if they oppose and draft a write-up tomorrow.
okay, this is getting kinda old now. Don’t just chime in and say if you wonder someone can count. Vote on somebody or something.
Overlord maybe?
Edited by nwotyzal on Dec 9th 2020 at 10:27:18 AM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to the Wick quote.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Goku Black
@Tv: Who do you want to suggest?
All the super heinous villains usually have redeeming qualities or tragic parts to their characters.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
yes it's the overlord.
Goku Black
Isn't he literally the darkness of ninjago's creation brought to life. Even the writers have said he can't be destroyed since he's a fundamental part of the balance.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
to Bazra Bearmors, Prince Rudo, and The Emperor.
Cut AM and Corporal Lawrence.
@Michaelthehero: I know nothing about the work Subject X, so I can't comment there. Sorry.
I've got another potential cut. Special thanks to 43110 and Scraggle for consulting me about it and giving me the okay to go with this.
The cut I want to propose is Mrs. Paterson from a creepypasta story "My Brother and I Kidnapped a Woman For Thanksgiving". To give a brief synopsis, it follows the Paterson family who kidnaps and cannibalizes on random people for Thanksigiving. The father tries to protest against this tradition offscreen and gets kill by Mrs. Paterson. The main protagonist, one of the sons, discovers about his dad's murder and kills his mother in retaliation before burning down the house.
Now, I want to cut this candidate on the basis of a lack of substantial plot. To be clear, a substantial plot is one that has unique characterization behind their characters and a clear plot structure (has exposition, rising action, climax, falling action, and conclusion). As for characterization, there is practically none of it, except for Mrs. Paterson. The two other characters who receive any plot relevance, the protagonist and his brother, have no unique personalities or motivations; they just oppose their mother and not much else. Mrs. Paterson does have a unique personality, but this feels like one of those stories where the antagonist gets made to be as despicable as possible just for its own sake. It's similar to the situation with Hatred, where the antagonist technically gets characterized, but there's not much else to the plot.
As for plot structure, it's pretty barebones and not enough to be counted as substantial. There's exposition in showing how the family operates and you could argue there is a climax when the protagonist anti-climactically murders Mrs. Paterson. However, there's no rising action and the plot rushes to its conclusion in three short paragraphs. The story feels like the only thing it has to say is "Mrs. Paterson is evil and deserves to die."
With the lack of any characterization or a well-structured plot, I'd say this story doesn't have enough substance to make it seem conducive for this trope, especially since it's only around 2,102 words long. What do you guys think?
Edited by DrUnknown on Dec 9th 2020 at 10:42:49 AM
Lizzid people!
Sure you can cut it. Honestly didn't want the story to be brought up in the first place out of embarrassment.
Cut Mrs. P. Am I the only one that thinks there should be a word count for fanfics and web writing?
Edited by YearOfTheRabbit on Dec 9th 2020 at 2:45:24 PM
The Dragon
Cut Mrs Paterson.
Okay, I know I'm probably treading on thin ice asking this question, but here we go. In the nearly 10 year history of this thread, has anyone ever proposed a Real Life person? And I'm not talking about a biopic either, I mean a real human being that actually lived in the real world. Make no mistake, I am well aware that this trope should never apply to Real Life, a notion that I 100% agree with, it's just that question just got into my head and I'm curious to know.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Cut Mrs. Paterson.
I don't think we need a word count rule personally. It's already pretty expected that they should have a substantial plot. And I think that covers it just fine personally.
Edited by Bullman on Dec 9th 2020 at 12:54:26 PM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Young Man is supposed to be a origin story of SCP-106. definite cut him (please note, the SCP canon is all over the place, so standard 106 isn’t going anywhere)
Iffy on SCP!AM, but I could see him going.
Edited by nwotyzal on Dec 9th 2020 at 9:38:40 AM