During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Switching to abstain on Vander.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
don't agree with that comparison. Those guys have moments of deadly seriousness. Vander....really doesn't to the near same extent
Switching to a no on Vander.
Honestly the comparison that DOES jump to mind? Nero from the Storykeepers. Some goals might be nasty but it seems like a misread of character to say “This is a monster” when 99% of his screen time is focused on what a hilarious, pathetic loser he is.
[site glitched with a double post]
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Sep 10th 2020 at 9:26:22 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That I'm gonna heavily disagree with. Decken's torture of Hatchan, several of his murder attempts on Shirahoshi and his attempted destruction of the country, even before Hody hijacks the plan are treated with horror and magnitude.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Sep 10th 2020 at 9:20:21 AM
Even then, he's a joke, though. His plan isn't treated seriously enough from him and it's taken by Hody. I'm sorry, mate, I really think this one is a non-keep
It sounds to me like his crimes are kind of shared with Hody. If Hody is played completely seriously and has the same onscreen crimes than that doesn't look good on him.
That's fair. Like I said, YMMV trope.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Sep 10th 2020 at 9:32:44 AM
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Vander
I do have to say, we seem to be coming back to One Piece an awful lot, picking characters from movies claiming the likes of Crocodile can count since he just got arrested when in a manga vs. anime discrepancy, such a scenario would have been discounted on the basis of being a compressed adaptation. I think we've fished it dry up until more material gets released and personally... I wouldn't mind seeing some film keepers getting the ax.
Switching no to Vander.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Yeah, I've thought the placement of the Non-Serial Movie guys in One Piece questionable. All they are are taking arcs from the anime and basically adapting them into movie format. I'm not sure why that suddenly nullifies the heinous standard or every single redeeming quality all those other guys had.
That's really only the case with Movie Crocodile. Episode of Skypiea has Enel outright fail in his goal to go to the moon (where he even gets his redeeming qualities in canon) along with several notable differences from the arc's events (how they met Gan Fall, Satori attacking the Straw Hats on Angel Beach as opposed to Luffy, Sanji, and Usopp going to his trial, any outsiders being killed as opposed to there being a toll to enter Skypiea)
Episode of Chopper is even further away from that claim. Not only does it also have several notable differences from canon (an entirely new major villain in Musshuru, Wapol's plan going from 'become king again' to 'murder everybody in the country') but it takes place in a timeline where Alabasta and CP9 occured before the crew even met Chopper.
Movie Wapol isn't going anywhere, and I'd argue to keep Movie Enel as well. I could go either way on Movie Crocodile though.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Sep 10th 2020 at 10:13:55 AM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
I really don't care about One Piece. But I am reasonably sure both above points about the movie ones from 43 and Scraggle have been braught up before. I don't know what came of the discussion though. And to be honest I could go either way.
Edited by Bullman on Sep 10th 2020 at 9:18:00 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Wapol I can support keeping and Enel I don't really care about but I don't see the leg to stand on for Croc... he's been brought up before and I can't honestly see the logic to him staying: it goes up to the point where he's brought in for his crimes in Alabasta, that's part of his character arc and afterwards he gains redeeming qualities. It seems like cheating to count the compressed version and act like his path will diverge such that he never becomes a better person when there's zero indication he'll go on to be any different than his original iteration.
I'm just gonna say it now since it seems evidence is stacking up against him: cut Crocodile. He shouldn't be on this trope in the series or the movie.
Not sure why he went up in the first place... or why I was met with any resistance at all the last time I called for him to go but yes... get him off the trope now.
Ironically, I recall 43 being one of the people to vote movie Crocodile up when I made the EP. ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Times change.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Sep 10th 2020 at 11:00:09 AM
Did that sound like a chummy joke to you, Awesome? Trying a 'gotcha' on me isn't an appropriate course of action.
The Draftsman of Doom
Cut the Croc.
Knock it off with the smart-aleck attitude.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Sep 10th 2020 at 11:06:45 AM
Feels good, don't it?
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Cut Crocodile.
Edited by Bullman on Sep 10th 2020 at 10:04:29 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Actually since you tried to pull that: for the record "tentative" was the addendum I included there... thanks for telling the full story in your post.
I wasn't trying to do a gotcha moment or come off as a smart aleck. I was just saying something I found funny in hindsight. I genuinely didn't intend any hostility there.
But yeah, I'm cool with cutting Croc
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Sep 10th 2020 at 11:10:30 AM
Gonna change my![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
to an abstain on Vander.
"No running in the halls!"