During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
It doesn'tmatter if they're CM's or not. everyone affects the heinous standard. The one we've said we won't touch is the demon god of child molesters, so comparing Nightripper to demons like...I dunno, Mazmezz, Socothbenoth, Shax and so forth, is important
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Maybe, but I doubt there are many others. Lamashtu has redeeming qualities. There is one Daemon who will make it, but most demon lords...kinda edge one another out in terms of monstrousness. There's like a couple who may be worth discussion
Edited by Lightysnake on Aug 20th 2020 at 2:54:19 AM
He hasn't appeared in an adventure yet, but neither did Dahak when he was approved as a CM. And even if he's not, the book he's in still lists all his atrocities, so yes, he has done stuff.
Yeah, for a TTRPG, there's no issue there. Szuriel's backstory and details are way enough for why she keeps.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Though, it looks like Nightripper had his victims BEFORE becoming a demon lord.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Alright I'll give a tentative ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
for nightripper then.
The only demon lords I would say are worse are Deskari (who made the Worldwound with the help of Areelu Vorlesh) and Cyth V'sung (who has created a ton of fungus related monsters to infest and corrupt Golarion), and the latter does have some vaguely sympathetic traits (such as being filled with self loathing and suffering from Horror Hunger.)
Edited by Bootlebat on Aug 20th 2020 at 2:59:26 AM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Switching to a slight yes to Nightripper. This really should have been in the EP.
Seriously has anyone claimed the Flash movie yet?
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Same as Mir He's a 'nascent' demon lord so he's not exactly top of the chain...him starting as a human is important, since demons are a nasty lot.
Like...Andirifkhu is a patron of torture. Socothbenoth is a rapist. Deskari is behind Areelu in opening the Worldwound, Jezelda has her followers kidnap humans to hunt them for sport, Shax is the lord of torturers and murderers whose dogma is all about destroying hope, Sifkesh enjoys twisting mortals into sin and depravity before consuming their souls upon their death, Xoveron wants mass extinction to reign over empty cities forever...
Fiendish divinities are a nasty lot.
Yes to the Nightripper.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Jeez...I see what you mean by "most demon lords...kinda edge one another out in terms of monstrousness" ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Edited by ACW on Aug 20th 2020 at 6:05:00 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Would Xoveron count ?
Since he seems to be an Omnicidal Maniac of sorts.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Okay I feel like I am being somewhat ignored. Has anyone claimed the Flash movie yet or not? If not I would like to.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Check the dates, if it's not feel free, you don't need to ask
And everyone...Scraggle and I have PF covered. Please no "does X count they sound nasty". If they do, we will get to them.
Meanwhile, I have a cut I'm not very happy about: From Wolf Hunt. Ivan Spinner comes back to life in book 3 and ends up working with the heroes. He's the same sadistic prick, but he has one line where one of the villains threatens his grandmother. Ivan makes it clear he doesn't care about her enough to put himself in danger, but he clarifies she still means a lot to him.
Cut on behalf of redeeming feature.
Edited by Lightysnake on Aug 20th 2020 at 3:09:16 AM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Okay looks like no one has. I put my name down. I would be willing to collab if anyone is interested.
Cut Ivan for a redeeming quality.
Edited by Bullman on Aug 20th 2020 at 5:14:46 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
A Jeff Strand cut due to Paul Saetta Syndrome? Cut requested.
So will Nightripper go with the top 4 since he's not from a specific adventure?
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Definitely old; I don't think the writeup even had his last name.
EDIT: Then again, considering Paul Saetta Syndrome was created by Garth Ennis, I shouldn't be surprised,
Edited by ACW on Aug 20th 2020 at 6:19:34 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Cut Ivan.
Woah that takes me back. I was only a lurker when he got proposed.
Nah it's not the only time strand has bad guys who are horrifying with actual redeeming qualities. The bad guy from my pretties is a real horror show but loves his son.
Edited by miraculous on Aug 20th 2020 at 3:18:06 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
to Nightripper/Ne Riktus Scroon.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Madame Valda and Ivan Spinner.
I'd like to be put down for Terrifier 2, if I may be, please. Also, just a heads up, it's being released not this year, but next year.
Edited by Stellarvore on Aug 20th 2020 at 5:34:17 AM
The line:
“He thinks he has power over me because Grammy means so much to me that I’d put my life at risk to keep her safe. She does mean a lot to me. I don’t want anything bad to happen to her. But I’m not that committed to her safety. I just think it gives me a bit of an extra edge if he thinks he has more power over me than he actually does.”
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Eh, barely, but yeah, that's a cut.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Cut Ivan.
Nightripper (but seriously Bootle, you can't just do the bare minimum, you have to have an entire encyclopedia about the character {exaggeration but you get my poin})
Valda
cut Ivan (sort of like a precursor for tomorrow) also guessing no one else in the book comes close?
Edited by nwotyzal on Aug 20th 2020 at 3:42:31 AM
Sigh...I've got one another. This one hurts way more.
We need to cut Fantomas. Someone released the final book of the initial Allen/Souvestre run, and Fantomas at the last minutes of life reveals he loves his brother and his daughter. I'm not sure if the revival run by Souvestre invalidates this, but here's the dialogue:
He explicitly says this is why he's refused to kill Juve in the past.
Edited by Lightysnake on Aug 20th 2020 at 3:45:31 AM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
I'm not worried about whether it's 953 or 999; we can just say over 900.
BTW, are any of the demon lords possible candidates?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts