During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Alan Sylvasta and Gideon, ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Zobek. Abstain on the Zoranj siblings for now.
Gideon
Any votes on my Cioccolata quote? So far nobody's responded.
Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Jul 15th 2020 at 2:40:11 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
to the quote
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So Fan Works is approaching size limits. How do we want to split it? Give Fanscription its own page? Give RWBY and MLP their own pages? Something else?
Edited by ACW on Jul 15th 2020 at 6:48:06 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Alan and Gideon
Cut Vath. I'll vote on the new effortposts later.
@Lightysnake: I haven't seen the show, but I have watched parts of the movie in preparation for this discussion, and I can vouch for what Username is saying. In the scene at the reserve at least, Trout is played utterly seriously (except for possibly his defeat) and he really does try to leave all those bears to die in the fire.
Edited by falcontalons on Jul 15th 2020 at 5:13:50 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
And he's aware they're sapient?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Having played Battlefront 2, it did appeared that Gideon "cared" for Iden and Del at first, but like G-Editor said, there was no hesitation or remorse in him attempting to kill Iden and Del once it was clear that they were defecting, and killing Del, and if I saw it correctly, I believe his face was quite smug just as he shot Del. So even if he had redeeming qualities, they were LONG gone by the events of the game. While he did accuse Del of letting him down and also accuses Iden of taking his squad from him, it rings quite hollow given his lack of remorse for killing his former friend, and being an downright hypocrite as he basically let Iden down by going against her command of helping people escape from an planet being attacked by the Empire, with casualties most definitely intended. He also intends to kill Iden's daughter as punishment for Iden's "betrayal." He does call the squad, his family, but considering he was perfectly willing to kill them without remorse or hesitation, and was willing to kill their daughter out of spite, so yeah, it's quite clear that Hask doesn't geniunely care about them at all. And with that, combined with Hask's lack of care towards his past family, I can say for certain that Hask subverts any redeeming qualities he seemed to have established, so I think I’m comfortable giving him an .
Goku Black
For the ncis guys give me a bit. I'll watch that episode and report back on what happens if you don't mind.
The bears talk in the show. Theirs no way for him not to.
Edited by miraculous on Jul 15th 2020 at 5:10:01 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Hmm, I think Trout JUST edges over.
So how should we split the Fan Works page?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
to Sylvasta and Gideon. I'll wait for miraculous to report back on the NCIS guys before I cast a vote.
Not sure at the moment; I'll think about it and give an answer later.
Showtime!
to alan, gideon, and the cioccolata quote
Goku Black
Give fanscription it's own page. At least that is it's own work. Not sure I like the idea of doing based on x fanwork pages. Those aren't really franchises.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Cool. Anyone else going to change their vote on Trout?
Goku Black
Uh if he knew that fire would kill them.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
That might be best to give Fanscription its own page. Any header/quote ideas?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I'll officially switch to an abstain on Trout.
Edited by falcontalons on Jul 15th 2020 at 6:14:01 AM
Remember we did approve Steele. Another villain from a kids show who didn't have any game breaking crimes outside of attempting to deliberately sabotage an attempt to save the lives of dozens of children. Just like Trout tried to deliberately sabotage an attempt to save the lives of dozens of sapient creatures.
Edited by username2527 on Jul 15th 2020 at 6:37:50 AM
Still maintaining my on Trout. I could see him qualifying if murder wasn't attempted by anyone else in the series through. Steele I feel is a bit more of a standalone, especially when that movie came out.
Gideon, who's the other candiate? Gleb? I'm not sure if he gets enough character and even you were doubting this G-editor.
Vath, he dosen't even fly past the heinous standard in Artix games imo redeeming qualities aside. For all the humor, I do remember the games having a high enough heinousness standard
Edited by xie323 on Jul 15th 2020 at 7:02:13 AM
It is not clear to me if Trout was the One, who started fire. If he did, i would be more confident giving him Yes.
"The Juice is Loose."
Yes to Trout, Gideon, and Alan. Abstain on the NCIS guys. I will have to rewatch the episode.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
He didn't start the fire; the electric fence around his preserve just happened to set the forest aflame.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Yeah, that's correct.
Edited by falcontalons on Jul 15th 2020 at 7:13:36 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Trout doesn't START the fire, but he deliberately doesn't save the bears when he could (if I'm understanding correctly).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Uh that does sound a bit too indirect. At least steele you know intentionally sabotaged the mission. That sounds more apathetic then evil.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
He didn't start it but he is indirectly responsible for it since he built an electric fence that had a dangerous amount of voltage so when it broke it caused the fire. Trout only cares about his safety in this situation and deliberately foils an attempt for them to escape. The Evil Laugh as well as taunting he engages in shows he very much wanted them to die from it out of petty racist spite.
