During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Another one.
Also no, and I don't like slurs in the quotes proper there either.
Goku Black
Might fit better under The Dreaded
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Okay, here's one that's not a tabletop one!
What's the work?
From the 1981 Legend of the Lone Ranger, starring Klinton Spilsbury and Michael Horse. John Reid is a boy living in a Texas village with his family...when an evil outlaw descends on the town and wipes them out. John is raised by the Comanche and becomes blood brothers to a young man named Tonto. Years later, John is a Texas Ranger and runs afoul of his nemesis: Butch Cavendish.
Who is Cavendish?
Played against type to say the least by Christopher Lloyd, Bartholomew Cavendish, known as "Butch the Butcher" is a cruel outlaw who fancies himself a soldier, making a name for himself riding out and slaughtering those in his path. Butch massacres John's village, with only John and his brother Dan, away at the time, as survivors....now, Butch is plotting a takeover of the US, years after crime. Introduced to us with narration proclaiming that some call him a monster, others call him mad. But concludes that Butch "was everything bad." Taking two of his own men for failing him, Butch has them executed for firing squad. When pointed out they acted like any other man would have, Butch coldly responds he doesn't want men 'like any other.'
To kidnap president Grant, Butch gets a traitor within the Texas Rangers. To also eliminate problems, he has a newspaper magnate murdered and hanged in his office, having the Rangers lured into a trap....Butch has them massacred, with only John surviving after his beloved brother Dan dies in his arms. Butch also shoots his spy for the reason it'd look odd if the man wasn't at least wounded....now, John is saved by Tonto and decides to become a crimefighter, the masked Lone Ranger as Butch kidnaps Grant and uses him as a hostage to force him and congress to cede control of the US to him (not....really sure that would work, but I digress). So, John tracks down Butch, leading to a battle where John and Tonto save Grant, tear down Butch's outlaw gang and ends with John facing off with Butch. In a brutal fistfight, John wins...but refuses to execute a helpless Butch, leaving him to be arrested by Grant's men with the insinuation he will be tried and hanged for all his crimes.
Mitigating Qualities?
Oh, hell to the no. The film is allabout how bad and evil Butch is. He's a ruthless, murdering bandit, who conducts himself like a wannabe dictator, killing loads of innocent people, massacring the Texas Rangers...he's above the standard by far. And mitigating qualities...nope. Just a bandit with delusions of grandeur, and the film says clearly he's "everything bad."
Conclusion?
a happy keeper to Butch Cavendish, the third Butch to count.
Yes to Cavendish.
Wild Child
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Cavendish.
to Skull and Cavendish
"The Juice is Loose."
Yes to Cavendish. Second for Christopher Lloyd after Judge Doom right?
Edited by Bullman on Apr 25th 2020 at 7:58:52 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Yes to Butch.
- Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain: The fair boy-king William the Just, through the wicked influence of the time-traveling Moebius, came to embrace evil and became a sadistic despot known only as the Nemesis. The Nemesis has his legions sweep across the land to torture, rape and murder all they find, leaving entire cities such as the once-academic Stahlberg a complete ruin with its population put up on stakes. The Nemesis intends to come down upon all Nosgoth and turn the world into blood, ashes and chains before him, and even curbstomps the King Ottmar and his noble army, forcing Kain to turn back time forty years to undo William's carnage upon the earth.
- Vampire: The Masquerade: Nazi Sabbat Doktor Totenkanz was suspected to have been a male eugenics scientist who was sired by a Tzimisce for the terrifying passion he had for his work. Totenkanz used the Tzimisce's flesh-warping abilities to change his own gender and indulge to the fullest in her chosen proclivities, whipping up enormous, savage Sabbat war parties to murder as many people as she can. Totenkanz is given a wide berth even by the rest of the Black Hand for the sheer audacity of her slayings, and her chief regret only ever seems to be that Pol Pot still has her beat for sheer amount of people slaughtered. Totenkanz sires the equally vicious childe Weissrarech to carry on her Nazi ideals, and is scorned and considered a humiliation by the rest of the Sabbat she is dubiously loyal to, precisely because of how much of a hateful creature she is.
Edited by Scraggle on Apr 25th 2020 at 6:56:53 AM
The wifi here sucks
Yes to Caverdish abstain on Atomic skull. What's the third version of Butch to count after this and the Disney movie?
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Lizzid people!
Cavendish
One version from Dynamite Comics, because of course Dynamite Comics.
Butch Cavendish.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Cavendish. Yet another reason why I need to start going through my to-do list.
to Butch
The Draftsman of Doom
Goku Black
Cavendish
I wonder if the original cavendish would count ?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
to Butch Cavendish.
Mir: Yeah I was wondering the same thing. Unless I'm mistaken, every version involves him being a ruthless outlaw who massacres the other rangers, leading to John becoming the Lone Ranger.
Edited by MGD107 on Apr 25th 2020 at 6:44:30 AM
Butch Cavendish. I wouldn’t say it’s completely against Christopher Lloyd’s type, since most of the roles I remember him in are villainous ones: Kruge from ‘’Star Trek III’’, Judge Doom, and Rasputin.
To think that if it weren't for his sudden redeeming qualities right at the last possible second, Master Xehanort could have also been a Christopher Lloyd CM since he filled in for the late Rutger Hauer in Kingdom Hearts 3's DLC.
But anyway, Cavendish sounds like a keeper, and Atomic Skull... I dunno, he may not have the resources of the Elite or those countries, but I can't help but feel that he's still overshadowed. Probably going to abstain since I'm not comfortable enough to outright vote him down, though.
Anyway, I'm about ready to say "Fuck it" and let someone else handle Onox and Veran, but I also need to get better about actually writing up the villains I'm effortposting. It's just frustrating for me because in Onox's case, I find it hard to make listing his crimes and such flow naturally, and in Veran's case any writeup I come up for her is either really short since her only real claims to fame are slavery and trying to destroy a village, or bloated with unnecessary details and smaller crimes such as her trying to execute Link's ancestor.
Edited by FriedWarthog on Apr 25th 2020 at 9:13:10 AM
Holding off on sharing the quick summaries of my other candidates for now. One of them again is Mr. Electric from Sharkboy and Lavagirl.
In the meantime, I watched this bad movie today and I hope getting another candidate makes it worth it. I’m not looking to spend a lot of time on this, but I’ll get in all the most important details.
I take it back. I guess I didn’t really slum it after all.
What is the work?
Blumhouse's Truth or Dare is a 2018 Horror thriller about a group of friends forced to play a sadistic version of the classic party game Truth or Dare by either answering a question with complete honesty or doing exactly what they are told to do. The penalty for doing neither is death. This group ends up in the game when a guy they meet in Mexico during Spring Break tricks them into the game out of desperation, but he is not the candidate.
Who is he and what has he done?
Calux is the demon that is the instigator of the game. The movie opens with him confronting Giselle Hammond in a gas station by possessing the clerk and forcing her to pick dare, prompting her to set a woman who is there on fire. Later on, he forces Carter (real name Sam Meehan) to zero in on Olivia Barron and her friends and bring them into the game in order to save himself. It is revealed that Carter and Giselle’s other friends are all dead as a result of the game too.
Years before all this, Calux was summoned by a desperate group of girls who they used the game with him to get revenge on a sadistic priest. However, all but one of the girls ended up dead too and the last girl, being the one who summoned Calux, sealed him away by reciting a chant seven times, cutting off her tongue and sealing him away in a jar back through the door from which he came. He remained there until Carter got drunk at the broken down mission and inadvertently set him free.
Since it is Two Truths and a Lie though, that means that everyone cannot simply say Truth to get out of a crazy dare. Calux first forces Olivia to confess that her best friend Markie Cameron is a serial cheater against her boyfriend Lucas Moreno. When the douchey Ronnie fails to complete the Dare of showing everyone his groin, Calux possesses and walks him off a pool table breaking his neck. Lucas completes a Truth, but then Tyson Curran is forced to stab himself in the head through the eye with a pen when refusing to admit he forges drug prescriptions to sell them.
Brad Chang is forced to come out to his overbearing father, a cop, but then Tyson’s girlfriend Penelope Amari is forced to walk across the roof of the dorm or something while drinking and falls but is saved. They find Giselle who is being forced to kill Olivia, but accidentally kills Penelope. For her failure, Calux forces Giselle to turn the gun on herself. Olivia is forced to sleep with Lucas who in turn is forced to confess he loves Markie and Markie is prompted by Calux to get the gun her father shot himself with.
Brad is later forced to threaten his dad with his gun to beg for his life and he ends up killed by his dad’s partner. Olivia is forced to confess a terrible secret to Markie though Dare (so Calux kind of cheated and I will get to the rest of that soon). Olivia, Lucas and Markie (after Olivia has persuaded her to not to kill herself) locate Carter and bring him to the mission to get him to perform the ritual that will send Calux away.
Calux gives Lucas the choice of killing Olivia or Markie and he refuses, thus he will be forced to kill himself. As Carter is about to finish the ritual, Calux kills him through Lucas and then has Lucas slit his own throat. Markie refuses Calux’s next dare to kill Olivia and Olivia brings him into the game and learns there is no other way to stop Calux. To save their lives, Olivia releases a video online in which she brings anyone who sees it into the game after detailing it and Calux targets his next victim.
Sequel Hook anyone?
Redeeming qualities? Mitigating factors?
Nothing to indicate he is Made of Evil (though nothing to the contrary either). There is no good reason why Calux does any of this shit. Also, even when something good seems to inadvertently come out of something Calux prompts in the game, it is easily overshadowed by all the horrible things though and the latter definitely outweighs the former by a long shot. He definitely has a personality and it is one of a gleefully cruel personal nature without any question. Even people not involved in the game whatsoever are not immune or safe and Calux clearly does not care or have any standards beyond inflicting pain on anyone he can. His signature is his constant evil grin, so yeah, nothing but pure pleasure here is the motive. He resorts to taunts too, so again, there is definitely character here.
Heinous standard?
About two dozen deaths and a lot of psychological torture and that is clearly not going to change moving forward. Whether or not anyone is an Asshole Victim is irrelevant and thus, it does not matter. Even Carter only passed the game on because he is afraid to die and he tries to make up for that by almost helping seal Calux away (though it could also be because Olivia is holding a gun on him).
The one thing that could hurt his chances here is Olivia passing on the game to everyone because she feels so guilty about how much she hurt Markie throughout the movie and does not wish to put her through anymore. But Olivia clearly shows a lot of remorse and regret for that and it does not make Calux any less of an awful abomination, especially because he is all too excited to keep going. Olivia also played a small part in Markie’s father being Driven to Suicide when he tried to come onto her after losing his job and getting drunk with her and afraid, she told him he would be better off dead. Again, small potatoes though.
Verdict?
I guess I will reserve the sequel too. to Calux.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Apr 25th 2020 at 9:59:16 AM
Need any help for writeups, fried? Glad to assist.
And yes for Callux. Stupid movie, but never been a bar.
The Draftsman of Doom
"The Juice is Loose."
Not feeling it. Way too much weird phrasing