During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
The Draftsman of Doom
I concur with 43. People will have no problem finding anime films in the Anime and Manga subpage.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Sylvie thinks the anime films should be on the animated films subpage.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Mar 23rd 2020 at 11:12:38 AM
Lizzid people!
What is the exact argument going on here? But if it's simply tedious enough on its own, I'd just keep them under Anime/Manga namespace personally.
Never mind: I get the gist now.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Rockwell
Edited by AustinDR on Mar 23rd 2020 at 8:14:20 AM
Asamiya, Gopp, Strout and Rockwell
The wifi here sucks
Keep Anime films on the Anime and Manga page. Also Mir, I'm pretty sure webtoons count as webcomics
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
An Eldritch Troper
Just read Batman: Castle of The Bat. I vouch to cut Dr. Seltsam. When he was proposed, some people asked if his murders were part of a pattern. However, I did not see any pattern at all, he mentions a few of his highwaymen and a few of his victims, but there does not seem to be evidence that he killed numerous people for his experiments (with the exception of vaults full of fluid he extracts from living conscious brains) and there’s only one highwayman (Van Klooster) seen in the comic. There does not seem to be anyone who was killed by his lab’s explosions (which he rigged) sans himself and the Bat-Man. The reason I put this post up is because the proposer did not answer the questions about potential Offscreen Villainy or Fridge Horror, which I intend to bring up.
Yes there. We only see Thomas Wayne being killed onscreen in order to extract his brain ( It doesn’t end up in Seltsam’s hands, but at one point, Bruce and his servant walk through these vaults and there’s numerous jars of body parts well-preserved for up to 15 years. Bear in mind this happens before the twist that Seltsam is the story’s villain.)
Edited by Draxterrus on Mar 23rd 2020 at 11:31:13 PM
Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
Umm isn't that the exact definition of "evidence?" Okay, so we only have one or two victims to gauge—but if we've got visible evidence of previous victims and there's enough of that evidence to fill entire vaults? I think we're fine.
I'm Sad Frogerson.
I think the issue regarding Anime films is way bigger than just the Complete Monster pages. Like, I've never seen an Anime movie listed under a "Films - Animated" folder, it's always "Anime & Manga". If we want to a site-wide clean-up where we move those entries from hundreds of pages under a different folder, sure. But I think most people are more accustomed to the way it's organized now.
Edited by chasemaddigan on Mar 23rd 2020 at 11:29:37 AM
Showtime!
The wifi here sucks
Regarding the Castle of the Bat, the write up doesn't mention him killing anybody aside from Thomas Wayne, I haven't read the book but if he kills more people then the write up should mention that.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Yeah, the original effortpost wasn't the best case to put him up on. It was done by a known ban evader and didn't actually ever seem to address the previous victims, but...I'm reading the comic, and we do see a lot of chopped-up body parts on the shelves.
Yeah, it probably should.
So I feel as though Grandma Lois' entry from Paranormal Activity should be edited to show more of the info we learn about the coven throughout the series, because it's the same coven from The Marked Ones and Ghost Dimension. So how does this look?
Before:
- Sweet Grandma Lois is revealed as the worst the series has to offer in the third entry in the series. All of the horror stemming from the demon plaguing the family can be traced back to her. It is revealed that Lois is a witch and the head of a coven that bargained with the invisible demon, in return for personal gain, to surrender the first male member of the family to the demon. To that end, Lois allows her daughter, her daughter's boyfriend and two young daughters into her home along with the demon. Lois orchestrates the death of her own daughter and watches her boyfriend's brutal death when the man tries to rescue the little girls. The film ends with Lois about to conduct a ceremony with the little girls and the demon, fully aware that eventually her great-grandson will be taken by the demon and her granddaughters' lives ruined or ended, all because of Lois’s personal greed.
After:
- Sweet Grandma Lois is secretly a cold-blooded witch and the head of the Midwives coven, that bargained with the invisible demon, in return for personal gain, to surrender the first male member of the family to the demon, knowing it would pursue her bloodline until a male child is conceived. In the third film, Lois orchestrates the death of her own daughter Julie when she refuses to have a son and watches Julie's boyfriend's brutal death when the man tries to rescue her granddaughters from her and the demon. Lois then manipulates and erases the memories of the girls to brainwash them into having a male child, leading to her descendant Hunter being taken by the demon to use his blood to successfully create a physical body to wreck havoc in. Fully aware of the pain and suffering that would come with her deal, Lois is a heartless monster willing to sacrifice her entire family for personal greed.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Can you change Sweet Grandma Lois to Grandma Lois Featherstone and just pothole it to Evil Old Folks pothole to get rid of the Chained Sinkhole?
It's never officially stated if Lois' last name is Featherson like her grandchildren, so I won't do that but will follow your other advice. I really wished that Toby counted for this franchise, he's done enough heinous and onscreen actions but I believe there's a few hiccups.
- Paranormal Activity: Grandma Lois is secretly a cold-blooded witch and the head of the Midwives coven, that bargained with the invisible demon, in return for personal gain, to surrender the first male member of the family to the demon, knowing it would pursue her bloodline until a male child is conceived. In the third film, Lois orchestrates the death of her own daughter Julie when she refuses to have a son and watches Julie's boyfriend's brutal death when the man tries to rescue her granddaughters from her and the demon. Lois then manipulates and erases the memories of the girls to brainwash them into having a male child, leading to her descendant Hunter being taken by the demon to use his blood to successfully create a physical body to wreck havoc in. Fully aware of the pain and suffering that would come with her deal, Lois is a heartless monster willing to sacrifice her entire family for personal greed.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
What hiccups? Why does he not qualify?
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
He dosent have enough personality
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Given that Total Drama fanfic Lost and Found was reposted, I am going to give another shot to a fanfic example that was cut. It's a fanfic I normaly would not read, Hannah Montana fanfic I Didn't Sign Up For This
Miley Cy...er Stewart signs up for Stanford University along with Lily and Oliver. He and his band and preparing for American Idol when they are killed in an explosion.
Enter Drew
Who is Drew: A seemingly normal student who befriends Miley and Lily. After Olver dies, she gets involved with the latter. Unfortunately she holds some dark secrets.
What does she do?
Cheryl/Drew is secretly the mastermind of the explosion, that resulted in the deaths of eight people in total.
Miley discovers an ID in the concert hall belonging to Martin Eposito. When she confronts him, he give up nothing, only to die in a car bomb.
At some point Taylor, the girl Miley is with, is thrown down the stairs. Miley confronts a girl named Jeanette, who confesses and runs away. She is hit by a car and killed.
Miley discovers that two of the victims of the bombing where involved with Professor King. She finds from his pastor that his alibi is false.
Miley find the facebook page of someone named Cheryl and realizes they look like Drew. She contacts Lily, warning her, but she is knocked out by Professor King. King admits having an accomplice, but refuses to say who. Said accomplice, Cheryl, guns down King, pretending to be trying to save Miley.
Miley reveals she knows that Cheryl arranged the explosion, and then the deaths of Martin and Jeanette. She speculates that Cheryl snapped after he father died, but Cheryl reveals that she was the one who killed him.
Cheryl tries to kill Miley, planning to pin the crimes on her, but Mikayla tackles her. Miley grabs the gun and shots Cheryl dead.
Heinous standard:
Cheryl is the mastermind, and thus has the most involvement, plus the betrayal of co conspirators.
To grimdark?
Needless to say murder puts the fic a much higher standard then the show. That being said it is not that graphic, being rated T.
I have a question regarding Gran Torino's entry:
Does this note at the end is really necessary?
Lizzid people!
Going with a yes there. Seems like an AU.
Edited by AustinDR on Mar 23rd 2020 at 11:02:55 AM
I think Drew can keep. Look at those Victorious fanfics we have up, granted they are crossovers.
Lizzid people!
Because we go by the larger heinous standard of the work it's doing the crossover with.
Edited by AustinDR on Mar 23rd 2020 at 11:11:48 AM
So why does the Blair Witch in Book of Shadows count when you don't even see her? Unless I missed something.
Drew. Seems like a genuine reimagining.
For reorganizing in general: I have to question if examples like this are really conducive to making things easier to navigate. Will someone get confused and start shouting in frustration because they couldn't find Colonel Muska on the animated films page? Unlikely. I think we can in general chill with the requests to reformat things unless there's an actual practical disadvantage to leaving something the way it is. ACW has enough requests and edits he's gotta run as is.