Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Gruul.

It seems we will definitely be getting a Fighting Fantasy subpage. Found any good images to use Lighty?

Yes to Gruul.

On images? No, honestly, not really...On the bright side? Just six left now, not counting the game.

Edited by Lightysnake on May 9th 2019 at 6:31:06 AM

Greg, Razak and Gruul.

Does it count if he wants to kill them out of "shallow, self-centered pride"?

to Greg, Gruul and Razaak

"That fat headless rapist with mouths in his palms" who was that?

Y'golonac.

NOOOOOOOOO!

Anyways, since there are pretty much enough FF villains to fit a subpage, here is the description for a hypothetical subpage:

"The Fighting Fantasy series sees the player character in each gamebook deal with many villains that plague the world of Titan and other assorted realms. Here are the worst of the worst."

I mentioned "other assorted realms" to fit in the gamebooks set on Earth as well as potential sci-fi villains if you look into some of the sci-fi gamebooks.

Edited by xie323 on May 9th 2019 at 6:38:04 AM

Funnily enough, Ygy became one of my favorite Lovecraft horrors after Nyarlathotep and Cthulhu.

@ xie323, we are making a game book subpage, that will cover all gamebook entries, including Fighting Fantasy, mainly because I still think there would still be some CYOA and Which Way books with monsters in them (though neither of those titles is as dark as Fighting Fantasy.) There is also a Buffy CYOA style book with a possible keeper. I am waiting for some CYOA books to arrive from the library, one is in transit. Not mention the 3 entries from the Lone Wolf series. So for the best image of the game book page is from one of the CYOA entries. There is a lot of room for expansion from gamebooks in general, so it makes sense to put the Fighting Fantasy characters all there, I think the point of a subpage is to make the site less cluttered, if we end up with a ton of CYOA villains (there are 180 of those books) and some Which Way monsters and other monsters, we will just create more clutter and more subpages, rather than having all the gamebook characters in one subpage.

Yes to SNK Boss Razaak, Gruul, Gingrich Yurr, Franklin and Greg.

@ Lighty, do you think Gruul counts as a MB or is he too cruel?

Edited by Overlord on May 9th 2019 at 6:49:28 AM

Also, Gruul and Razaak

I think Gruul is way too evil

See that's what I remembered, which is why I opposed Myurr and Gruul as M Bs, most of the others proposed I had no problem with.

After the CM EP for Gruul, Gruul as a MB on the MB thread. He gives me some Palpatine vibes in that while he's a fun villain and very classy and manipulative, he's wayyy too evil with his experimentations to be a CM/MB crossover(through it seems that Heydrich would remain a crossover at this point).

We need to redo some the FF effortposts on the MB thread tbh, they were too abrupt, condensed and omitted a lot of detail, and poorly written.

Edited by xie323 on May 9th 2019 at 6:47:31 AM

So this is the proposed image for the game books page so far (found by ACW):

https://www.gamenerdz.com/choose-your-own-adventure-war-with-the-evil-power-master-preorder

Here is a bigger picture:

https://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/Z-Man-Games-Announces-War-With-the-Evil-Power-Master-Adventure-Book

But we can use your header suggestion for the Fighting Fantasy subsection in the gamebook page, because it would cover other monsters not in Titan.

So here is the gamebook page in the sandbox so far:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Monster/Gamebooks

I think Fighting Fansty will have the biggest section in that page, but I think Which Way books and CYOA can surprise people with some of the darker villains that get showcased occasionally (though the Fighting Fantasy writers have a Garth Ennis like talent to create a bunch of interesting, yet vile collection of villains).

Edited by Overlord on May 9th 2019 at 7:03:02 AM

I think it works.

Time for an effortpost regarding Bi-Han/Sub-Zero 1/Noob Saibot in the new timeline, as I believe he qualifies for Complete Monster. Forgive my poor structure as I don't post often. I originally posted this a few days after, but given that it's been a bit over 2 weeks since MK 11 came out, I think it's been enough time, unless I'm missing some rules

WHO IS HE AND WHAT DOES HE DO?

Bi-Han is the elder brother of Kuai Liang and the elder Sub-Zero. During the first Mortal Kombat Tournament, Raiden tries to save him from becoming Noob, but is unsuccessful. While he shows himself to be somewhat sympathetic due to being murdered for seemingly no reason, it all goes to hell from there.

Afterwards, in the short amount of screentime he gets, he:

-He is totally okay with and is complicit in Kitana, an abused daughter figure to Shao Kahn, being executed quite unjustly when she finds out Kahn would replace her with Mileena

-He makes it 100% clear that he doesn't care about Kuai Liang, the younger Sub-Zero for the uninitiated. While Quan Chi resurrecting him may have made him say that then, when Quan Chi is long dead in MK 11, he still doesn't show even the barest sliver of affection for him. He doesn't shed any remorse towards Kuai being robotocized either, but whether that's due to QC's influence is unclear.

-He may possibly be involved in the destruction of the Shirai Ryu, even if he didn't carry it out. At best, he was complicit in Sektor hiring the aide of Quan Chi to kill them. In an MK 11 intro, he even says their deaths pleased him.

REDEEMING QUALITIES

None whatsoever. He isn't loyal to the Lin Kuei past advancing his goals (nor outworld), he doesn't give a shit about his little brother, and he is out to kill everyone he finds to have powerful minions and be... A sort of dark overlord? That's the best I can gather. Regardless, he has no positive qualities to speak of other than saying he didn't kill Scorpion's clan, which is a half truth considering he was complicit in it, as he was a high ranking member who possibly had some jurisdiction in Sektor hiring Quan Chi to kill the Shirai Ryu

HEINOUSNESS

He's not as threatening as any of the current MK C Ms (Quan Chi, Shang Tsung, Shao Kahn and Shinnok), but he sure as hell seems to want to be, given the idea above. In his ending in MK 9, he does exactly that, same with his MK 11 ending. This guy could be as heinous as Shinnok or Quan Chi in terms of threat if he got the power, but for now he only has it in terms of his desires. By MK 11, even his brother has given up on him, recognizing that he was never good at all, Kuai only thought he was because he was naive.

VERDICT

I think he deserves this, 100%. He's not as bad as any of the 4 C Ms, but he definitely wants to be. He shows absolutely no love for anyone, he doesn't have any loyalty to anyone, he doesn't care that he's a wraith because it suits his "purposes" (Vague, but given his ending, it's become an Evil Overlord), and while he's not powerful enough to pull off much, given he can't even beat Sonya Blade, his endings where he does get things done are more than horrifying enough if you ask me.

Edited by ShiningCrimsonZero on May 9th 2019 at 10:07:07 AM

to Greg, Razak and Gruul.

Grull

Greg Toberen

Razaan

...that's not how it.works.

Weil is as heinous as X!Wily. Wily is the cause behind the Maverick wars, which have killed as many people as Weil's crimes.

And the Pokemon CM don't live in the same continuity as Darkrai.

Now. For your candidate, he didn't had moral agency issues?

Edited by KazuyaProta on May 9th 2019 at 9:03:01 AM

Okay, one more for tonight! From Stealer of Souls...like Xakhaz and the Archmpage of Mampang, we bring one evil archmage...Mordraneth.

Who is Mordraneth?

An archmage and necromancer, and one of the nastiest, known as the stealer of Souls, known and feared in the whole world of Titan with agents all over....plotting to dominate the world, the archmage has been kept in check by the mages of Pollua led by the Great Mage Vanestin...unfortunately, Mordrenath has captured a wizard named Alsander sent to spy on him...the hero is sent to save Alsander, but learns Mordraneth has discovered how to give life to the fears of his victims...

Now, Alsander is found tortured, like most of Mordraneth's victims, but...here's the worst side of it. Mordraneth? Has been fooling everyone with his location and plans. In fact, Mordraneth has been launching attacks, killing hundreds to reap their souls....now, Mordraneth reaps the souls of the dead and raises them as slaves, but here's the kicker...all his victims? Mordraneth has killed and/or captured thousands to reap their souls...but that's not all. Mordraneth tortures them with their worst, most horrific fears, to power his magic: nightmarish illusions, magnified to horrific levels, keeping the souls, some stolen from the realm of the dead, in horrific limbo, tortured by fear and pain to empower his plots....and he plots to use this to conquer, kill countless people through natural disasters and unnatural magic, reap those souls and keep the process going, mixing the fear with his illusion magic to manifest it as real...the hero has to stop him before it's too late, with many fates being agonizing ends and Mordraneth stealing their soul as well.

It ends with a battle with the Archmage in the heart of his Empire of Illusion where Mordraneth is...actually very easy to defeat. Unfortunate. Still? Mordraneth engages the hero, who ends up slaying the wicked necromancer. Mordraneth falls, liberating the souls from his dark grasp, as the hero returns triumphant.

Heinousness?

Okay, so...what sets him apart? The soul thing. This is hands down the worst And I Must Scream fate replicated on TITANIC scales. This easily sets Mordraneth apart, bar none of any other baddie. Pass.

Mitigating Qualities?

And that's a negative.

Conclusion?

And a hell yes to the Stealer of Souls.

Debatably at first, but definitely not by Mk 11, where he 100% has moral agency. He arguably even has it in MK 9, as it's implied he's just biding his time and in his ending he betrays Quan Chi

Unfortunately, I don't think Bi-han makes it. He's nasty, but he never gets as bad as he could be, and there's agency issues with him, given he was stripped of his redeeming qualities when he hit the underworld.

Even if we cast aside agency, he never hits the nastiness others do. He just doesn't do enough.

Also, it's midnight somewhere so next up...

Edited by Lightysnake on May 9th 2019 at 7:07:08 AM

My friends. Don't forget Shining Crimson Zero's EP.

EDIT: Lol

Mondraneth

mmm...

Edited by KazuyaProta on May 9th 2019 at 9:07:14 AM

Lemme also say this in no uncertain terms?

Avengers: Endgame. Here it is: Nobody counts.

I have gotten a lot of queries on Thanos's 2014 incarnation and while he is indeed nasty, and while he does decide to completely eradicate the universe and start over, Thanos's ultimate intentions of preserving life, while also being an omnicidal egomaniac who needs to prove himself right and have everyone be grateful for it? Not exactly mutually exclusive. Yes, he's awful and his actions are CM worthy but let's be clear? He loved Gamora since she was a kid. That is explicitly made clear as his redeeming quality in part 1 and nothing overrules it.

Thanos doesn't count, not in present, not in 2014, never. The arguments of "he never says he'll spare the Children of Thanos" aren't convincing because the Children are to a one proud to die in his service (or supposed to be)...Thanos commented regretfully on Ebony Maw's death in part 1 as well.

so the answer? No to Thanos. He's a clear nonkeeper.