During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I understand your concerns, but keep in mind Carla is the way she is because of Simmons constant abuse and brainwashing, thus making him indirectly responsible for all of Carla's actions. Also their motivations are different Carla wanted to rule what's left of the planet as a God, while Simmons did everything just to make sure no one learned of his corruption. Plus the personal cruelty he inflicted on the heroes and his body count being in the tens of thousands I think he just heinous enough to qualify
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, I think this'd be Lucy's first CM.
Speaking of her, Hercules has a few, but does Xena have any CMs.
EDIT: I'll submit the Sonic and Arrowverse de-potholes once this week's batch is up: If you wanna see them.
Edited by ACW on Nov 19th 2018 at 7:14:00 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The MILF Virus
I'll give Mr. Derrick Simmons a ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
, honestly surprise this guy never got brought up again. Dude's probably the next worse guy behind Alexei and Albert "Complete! Global! Saturation!!!" Wesker.
I wonder if anyone's interested in checking this spin-off manga of Resident Evil called BIOHAZARD Heavenly Island, it's one where I think the last candidate could be found base on what I read in the wiki, but don't have much time reading it all the way considering I got a comic convention and a fashion show to work with right now.
Edited by TheImmortalAngelNewton on Nov 19th 2018 at 4:44:02 AM
"Are you the devil?" "Don't compare to me to those small fry" - Mir
Not voting on Simmons... I'm genuinely a bit worried we might be being a bit too lax with the standard here when every second villain is unleashing a horrific virus to cause massive casualties. I'm fine with leaving ones like Wesker (who basically sets the standard) or Lucas/Irons (who carve their own unique niche) but how many mass-murdering lunatics does this make now? Saddler, Lansdale, Goldman, Alexia, Marcus, Simmons, even Alex who we did vote down? I think we need to take another, serious look at this.
And we still need to replace that clunky and overly long quote on the page.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Any more votes on the Xenian Flower? Also, gotta put it on my pending list on writeups in case she got approved because needing to clear some of my to do list.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Gentle Laborer
I'm with Scraggs here. I played that game numerous times and i sincerely don't see Simmons standing out that much.
to Odate, Burton and Xenian tho
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Nov 19th 2018 at 10:53:47 AM
Burton, Simmons, Flower
Mmmm, yeah, guys, we need to look at what the standard is there. Like, Saddler hits it well as his ambitions are borderline omnicidal, and as for Lucas baker, he's the lowest tier prick on the scale...Alexia might get the alternate continuity clause, too
Even Saddler I'm a little wary on considering Wesker's plan to kill ninety percent of humanity but I'm a bit more lenient considering Saddler's otherwise one of the few operating on that scale, but Marcus, Goldman, Lansdale, Simmons (who we already voted down due to these concerns) even the Countess if that novel is canon?
Marcus I'm somewhat willing to keep given his role in creating all the misery of the series, but we may need to look at some of the others.
Thirding the page relook. When the general villain plot seems to be "Destroy humanity with bioweapon", I think the heinous standard gets a little ridiculous for anyone with the resources to do so.
Lizzid people!
Abstaining on Simons.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Actually, that does sound unique.
Edited by AustinDR on Nov 19th 2018 at 5:17:13 AM
Like, Vincent Goldman for example... I think we were willing to keep him prior given he functions with a uniquely awful brand of villainy to children... except it's not really that unique considering Saddler's plan would result in the awful, horrific death of most if not all of the world's children on a scale that completely blows Goldman out of the water. Lansdale (who, admittedly, I did previously vouch for) I'm genuinely concerned is working in a pond that's too big for him to make the sufficient splash in, Beardsley doesn't measure up if that novel is canon, even Marcus has to share that role in creating the misery of the series with numerous other people meaning he the blame can't really be shifted wholly onto him.
Simmons? What's making him any different from the several other plague-making psychos who succeed at or try to kill as much or much more than him?
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Simmons personal creepness is what sells to me. Experimentating with thousands of woman to satisfy a sexual fetish? That's what makes him stand out for me.
Yep. This is RE, where Plague-starter Villains are the rule amount Big Bad. But those personal experiments are just so disgusting (and massive in number) that is just...wow.
12,235 woman used to satisfy his lust. That's...unique for the franchise IMO. Plus, he's responsable for another being as messed up as she is.
I stand for my
Edited by KazuyaProta on Nov 19th 2018 at 8:16:51 AM
Watch me destroying my country
Gentle Laborer
@Scraggle The Wicked North Sea belongs to series of non-canon sidestories published by Capcom's subsidiary company. As for the others...
The "experimenting on women" part does make him a little more special... I'll have to agree on that.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Nov 19th 2018 at 11:25:53 AM
The one I'm most comfortable keeping, weirdly, is Lucas Baker. Him and Wesker, anyways.
How many of you have read the Ashfall Trilogy?
One candidate that sticks out to me is Red from the third book, a knife nut who places his own bloodlust above his ability to keep his people in line, and even his own life. At the beginning of Sunrise, he seems more like your average warlord on paper, as he invades Warren in order to steal their property. Months after being driven back to Stockton, he later catches Alex and Darla stealing wire from his warehouse (that he didn't even use). He sentences them to have their hands chopped off, complete with sticky tar to stop the bleeding so that he can parade them naked through the frozen town. Prior to all of this, he hypocritically steals their supplies so that after being thrown out of the city, they would be left to die of hypothermia and shock.
He operates on an eye for an eye mentality, and has an utter disregard for common law, or any code that emphasized fairness, mercy, or humanity, because as he claims, they were the laws of the "fat age", prior to the eruption of Yellowstone volcano. None of his actions endear him well to the majority of Stockton, who are more than happy to abandon him once they find out about Speranta, one of the few cities that actually succeeded in thriving during the volcanic ice age. Unlike the flensers, who are cannibal gangs that even he isn't above collaborating with, his actions are not pragmatic villainy, as it is made abundantly clear that satisfying his bloodlust comes before everything else, including things like ensuring that the citizens of Stockton remain loyal to him, or even his own individual survival.
Gentle Laborer
Why not just effort-post him?
I think Red can count, but we'd need to hear more. Would you be willing to formally propose him?
Now, I have a Korean tokusatsu CM to propose quite soon, but first? I have an EP I wanna have some fun with...
What's the work?
Bloodsuckers is a 2005 sci fi horror film that combines two of everyone's favorite things: space and vampires. In the far, far future, humanity has made contact with intelligent life. Unfortunately, they're vampires and they're hungry. Humanity has colonies under constant attack...and they're fighting back, with teams of vampire hunters who roam the wild frontier, taking vampires out. The hero is Decoy Protagonist Captain Churchill who is killed on a trap set by the vampires...so let's talk our villain...the leader of the Voorhes vampire clan (really)...Muco.
Who is Muco?
Played by Michael freaking Ironside (and nobody, NOBODY stands around, cackles and leers like Michael Ironside)...Muco and his brother lead the clan in attacks on humanity, tricking the colonies into letting down their guards by claiming they want to be friends, pinky swear...only to massacre them completely. By the time humanity's caught on, Muco has done substantial damage. In the film's start, Muco's brother is caught by the team and killed, to Muco's fury. Muco retaliates by setting a trap and having Churchill killed (more on this later), while alo ramping up the attacks...Muco has at least two other outposts and colonies butchered while working with a human traitor who believes in vampire rights and sees what they're doing as colonialism while trying to establish coexistence with the Voorhes and the other vampire clans.
Muco Has another colony attacked and mostly slaughtered as a message to the heroes who are rallying under the leadership of rookie hunter Damian...at the end, though? Muco ends up launching a trap to capture the heroes where he gloats (god Michael Ironside has so much fun as a gloating evil space vampire) on what they're going to do...Muco has realized humanity has some qualities humans lack. Muco wants to learn from humanity, discover these positive traits and incorporate their innovation into the Voorhes...and then launch an attack and exterminate humanity. Muco then reveals his dickish masterstroke: Churchill isn't dead. He's undead, turned by Muco and Muco? Is going to force Damian to fight him to the death for giggles. When his hippy collaborator protests the barbarity of this and asks Muco to show everyone what he's capable of (IE: mercy) Muco takes this in the most obvious villain route imaginable and shoots her, before directing his men to eat her alive...before commencing the unfair death match. Damian, however, manages to get the better of vampire Churchill and wins, and the crew fights back to defeat the Voorhes. Muco takes one of them hostage to buy himself safe passage, gloating he's going to murder his hostage anyways...
Just before Damian stabs him through the heart from behind, finishing Muco for goo and all.
Heinous standard?
Worst in the film. Muco is the head of the Voorhes and responsible for all they do. No other vampire is as organized or as vicious, and most of the worst in the film is down to his orders and directive. Pass here.
Mitigating Qualities?
One of the team is a heroic vampire, so agency is no issue...Muco does want to avenge his brother, but this isn't mitigating. He gets a scene where he points out he hated his brother and wanted to kill the guy himself. "But he was killed by a human, so I am obligated to avenge him." It's abundantly clear Muco had no love for said brother, and is just pissed off the guy got himself killed by humans which...impugns Muco's sense of vampiric superiority. Besides that? No, nothing. He cares nothing for fellow vampires, he despises humans, he kills people by the truckload and he's a total dick besides.
Conclusion?
Michael Ironside does it again, all.
Edited by Lightysnake on Nov 19th 2018 at 5:36:12 AM
Gentle Laborer
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
to Derek C. Simmons and Muco.
The MILF Virus
Muco.
Here's the thing with me about Resident Evil and it's standard. I don't really think scale should determine whether a candidate passes or not, but if they have something unique about them in their evil and whether they do as much evil as they can with the materials they've got. Simmons for me makes it because he does do as much evil as he can considering he has a pretty high body count compared to other villains considering he's only in one game, he's not Wesker who has numerous games, or Alexei who's a super genius with the materials of Umbrella to do her deed.
He also stands out with his experiments on the over 1000 women he personally tortured just out of his own lust, which no other villain can claim they have to. Also the argument about over 90% of the population of the world doesn't push through either because Wesker had a more powerful virus then Simmons, showing that Simmon couldn't reach that heinousness with what he got although he clearly shows he would if did have it.
"Are you the devil?" "Don't compare to me to those small fry" - Mir
Resources are not a "get-on-trope-free card" as has been established. How many people he killed and how powerful his virus is doesn't matter as much when there are numerous other villains working around or near Simmons' scale that kill/try to kill just as many or even more. You can be punching as hard as you can in your weight class and just not measure up when there are so many other similarly awful villains doing similarly awful things.
What I think tips the argument in his favor are those experiments with the women, which is a uniquely disgusting and awful crime in the series. Even then, I'm still a bit wary.
I will also note? Whether or not we go ahead with Simmons, the case for keeping Goldman and Lansdale isn't looking good right now, and I'm still somewhat dubious on Marcus.
Edited by Scraggle on Nov 19th 2018 at 6:49:12 AM
Muco.
