During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
Absolutely enthusiastic yes, then.
The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
Yes to the 'First Wave'' duo.
Alright, there's one other minor Gua me and Lighty agree is worth a post. From season 3's "Unearthed" is Bishop.
Who is Bishop? What has he done?
The Gua operating under the identity of Bishop initially just seems to be a particularly dickish member of Ann archaeological expedition headed by a portly man named Speidel, excavating the Hammer of Thor itself. Bishop's aggressive, assertive demeanor — coupled with the support of the guards and his right-hand Mr. Ash, who are also Gua — lead him to forcibly take command of the operation, putting him at odds with "Crazy" Eddie and Jordan who are undercover to rescue Cade from between dimensions with the hammer. Bishop's cover is eventually blown when the hammer is found and he decides to cut his losses there, murdering Speidel by breaking his neck.
Capturing Eddie and having him beaten bloody by Mr. Ash while interrogating him about his identity, the truth of the Hammer comes out. The Hammer is actually an ancient Gua device that can punch portals across space and time, existing in two halves — one on Earth, the other with Cade. Reunited, the Hammer can create a portal that would allow entire armies to overrun Earth, resulting in the complete genocide of the human race. Bishop is eagerly working under Mabus' direct order to make sure this happens to the letter, laughing at Jordan while he tries to cut her apart with an axe that he'll make sure she's at the forefront of humanity's slaughter. Thankfully, when the portal's activated, Cade makes a timely arrival, gutting Bishop with an axe and sending him through the portal.
Any mitigating factors
None of the usual... for the standard, Bishop's really unique for a random, one-off Gua in that his aspirations and end goal set him apart from even significantly higher-ranking Gua who aren't aiming for anywhere near this amount of bloodshed even with their participation in other Gua invasion plans. It's true he's acting under orders from Mabus, but Bishop is a sadistic bastard in his own right, taking glee in petty little details like mocking Jordan over the inevitability of Cade slowly freezing to death between dimensions and seeming nothing less than eager to singlehandedly facilitating the utter destruction of all humanity. Almost no Gua in the show gets this bad with so little resources and screentime.
Conclusion?
I'll leave that to you all.
Thoughts?
Going with a yes on Bishop.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Reid, Cain, and Bishop.
Call me... Del Noir...
Jumping in to say to Reid, Cain, and Bishop.
To The Bishop
Yes to Reid, Cain, and Bishop.
Saw Ant-Man and the Wasp! It was quite a bit of fun and that was one of the craziest climaxes I’ve seen in years! Fisher and Ghost DEFINITELY do not count though as each is a WIE and were both VERY identifiable.
We've long wrapped up discussion on that, Future.
Alright. The final First wave post. I give you...Mabus.
Who is Mabus?
Mabus is the ultimate ruler of the Gua who makes his appearance in season 3. Having risen to the top based on his exceptional power and ruthlessness, Mabus enforces a rigid, totalitarian government on the Gua. Not just conquest, but extermination. See, the Gua were once a peaceful, pacifist race, who were invaded. The gua were hardened into being conquerors, but Mabus goes a step further. Mabus is revealed to be pushing for an all out invasion and was the one responsible for the infiltration and the murders of countless innocents, as well as the project that brought Cade into the Gua's attention: identifying 'problematic' individuals and eliminating them and those close to them. Cade was just the only one who escaped.
In season 3, Mabus has his consciousness smuggled into earth where he proceeds to take on a Husk. The issue is Mabus is so powerful that his Husks...burn out. Quickly. Forced to confine himself to a sort of life support tank in the meanwhile, Mabus ramps the war up, ordering things to get bloodier, and to expedite the Second Wave. The Gua military leaders protest this, arguing that Mabus is trying to bypass their laws, with one general saying he can't just pretend the council doesn't exist. Mabus just kills him on the spot and asks if anyone else has any cute little objections.
We see the bad future, where Mabus initiates the Second Wave through Cain, killing millions to billions of humans, driving Cade to try to stop him by any means necessary. Cade fights his way to Mabus's sanctum in the mid-season finale, but the fight is inconclusive. Mabus is seemingly defeated, but his essence survives, taking a new body. Mabus attempts to transfer to new bodies, a process that is agony to the victims, and eventually kills them when Mabus's possession burns them out. Mabus ends up also commissioning the Hammer of Thor to split space and time and facilitate the invasion through Bishop....but also? In a confrontation, Mabus possesses Jordan and flees in her body. He then initiates his final solution,' purging the resistance members' outposts, massacring and destroying them before luring Cade to him. Deciding to create a new host body for himself? Mabus, in Jordan's body, rapes Cade to impregnate Jordan with a special child, intending on using it as the perfect host later. Thankfully, Jordan ends up released frm Mabus's control, but Mabus, through playing around, initiates the next wave...Cade is visited by a mysterious being who turns out to be trying to guide him on the right path, and shows him a vision. This being is from a world Mabus invaded, and we see Mabus has done this before: invading worlds, enslaving them, taking all they have to offer and finally exterminating them in complete genocide. Mabus cares nothing for the Gua, nothing for their traditions, or anything but his own lust for power.
Finally, Mabus attempts to mind rape Cade and team into the belief the entire series has been a delusion in a mental patient's head. Marshaling the invasion force in a sphere containing the consciousness of millions of Gua to throw Cade off, Mabus and Cade have their final battle and Mabus attempts to convince Cade that he's actually an undercover Gua, so convinced of his humanity he even fooled himself. Not buying it at the end? Cade crushes the sphere of the Gua force, against Mabus's hand. the resulting energy backlash strikes Mabus, who is torn apart with a final scream, gone at long last. Without Mabus and the Gua army decapitated, the Gua are forced to end the invasion and undergo reforms as a government, Cade and team departing happily...their journey over at all.
Heinous standard?
Nobody comes close to Mabus. Mabus is, hands down, the heinous standard of first Wave with almost any crime you can think of. He's a murderer, a torturer, a mind rapist, a body-stealer. He attempts mass genocide, he literally rapes Cade and Jordan as well. Mabus is easily the worst in First Wave and vaults over the baseline.
Mitigating Qualities?
Zero. Absolutely zero. Other Gua? Have standards. Other Gua have codes, or abide by their laws. Under those laws, Mabus is not supposed to be a totalitarian dictator and he wantonly violates every taboo the Gua have to make himself one. It's implied Mabus is responsible for their darker turn as a species and his virulent racism surpasses all other Gua. He never approaches anything resembling redeeming qualities and his care for the Gua is nonexistent with Mabus even coming close to admitting he'd sacrifice them all if it got him what he wanted. It's worth noting that until he really takes center stage, the Gua don't truly know what Mabus truly is and he's overseen multiple planetary genocides without so much as a twinge of remorse.
Conclusion?
The ultimate example in First Wave.
Yes to Mabus.
Mmhmm, Mabus is a yes.
Ultimate Moral Compass
to the First Wave quartet.
First Wave quartet
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
to all of the candidates that I missed
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Goku Black
First wave quartet
Are all the Octopath entries going to be added to the Final Fantasy subpage since the game is spiritual successor to the Bravely Default series?
Yes, that's been clarified. Right under the Bravely Default tree.
to Dr. Reid, Cain, Bishop and Mabus.
A Spiritual Successor to a Spiritual Successor?
When will the madness end!
Anyway, Lighty and Scraggle's proposals.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So, I've read and re-read the effortpost, and still am not quite sure what happened to Cain. Is he now trapped in the loop?
Also, Mabus: Is he actually Believing Their Own Lies, or is he just pretending he did to try and trick Cade?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
to the First Wave quartet. Man, was this a busy night!
Yes, Reid is a supremacist and a sadist, as Scrags said.