During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I thought we already moved on from this?
I don't see the big deal between using "obsessively" or "greedily"
Also since Lighty said he'd like to call Castle Rock I added his name on it for the discussion dates, if that's alright with you lighty?
Yes to Karl, Onizuka, and Iselda.
edited 2nd May '18 1:50:10 PM by Knack
Call me... Del Noir...
Alright, EP time, ladies and gents...
What's the work?: 24 Hours to Live is a fast-paced action sci-fi film starring Ethan Hawke as Travis Conrad, a Professional Killer in retirement after the death of his wife and young son. Called back into the frey for One Last Job, Conrad is killed during this mission, but brought back to life by an experimental procedure that gives him 24 hours to live. Seeking redemption, Conrad decides to save the target he was hired to kill, and in the process wages war with an evil corporation and its corrupt leader. This leader is who I discuss today...
Who is Wetzler?/What does he do?: Wetzler is the psychopathic CEO of Red Mountain, and a man who is completely unable to see a person as anything more than a tool. Desiring to "change the face of warfare", Wetzler invents a procedure in which drugs are used to bring a dead man back to life. To perfect the procedure, he routinely has innocent men, women, and children abducted from African villages, performing Mengele-style experiments on them before having them murdered. It is shown onscreen that Wetzler has killed at least 70 civilians in the name of inhumane science, a statistic he is downright indifferent to.
When one of his men, Zera, attempts to reveal the man's actions to Interpol, Wetzler orders him killed, hiring Conrad for the job, fully intending to kill Conrad once he outlives his usefulness. Conrad finds where Zera is hiding, but he is shot dead by an Interpol agent named Lin before he can carry out the assassination. Wetzler steals Conrad's body, revives him, and derides his "lack of spine" for not killing Lin, and immediately orders him euthanized after he gets the information he needs. Conrad escapes, and Wetzler sends a squad to murder Zera, slaughtering cops and civilians alike in the process. Conrad saves Lin, but Zera is shot through the heart and bleeds out.
Wetzler keeps his right-hand man, Jim Morrow, who's also an old friend of Conrad's, in line by threatening to have his entire family killed, and gives him an ultimatum; kill Conrad and Lin, no matter the human cost, or watch his wife and kid die. Morrow has Lin's son Chris kidnapped, but Conrad and Lin save him. With 36 minutes to live, Conrad storms Wetzler's headquarters, with Wetzler revealing that he's sent a squad to murder Conrad's father-in-law Frank (played by Rutger Hauer), just to spite Conrad. Cornered by Conrad, Wetzler attempts to turn the man on Morrow by revealing that the man looked the other way while Wetzler had Conrad's family murdered. Why did he kill them? As he explains, "a man with no family has nothing to lose". Morrow turns on Wetzler, and coldly guns the madman down, as Conrad's clock reaches zero.
Freudian Excuse?/Mitigating factors?: Ha, nope. Unlike the rest of his minions, Wetzler has no loved ones or standards. He admits his only code is "doing whatever the fuck he wants".
Heinous standard?: Big Bad, sets it.
Conclusion?: Easy ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
.
Wetzler.
Has the Truth or Dare film been discussed yet? I think the Big Bad may count.
Iselda and Weltzer.
So what we decided about Shiliew from One Piece?
Ps: Would Arlong without redeeming qualities, still fail heinous standard?
Wetzler, and honestly? Cut Shiliew. He's barely done anything onscreen so far, several allies of the Straw Hats like Cavendish and Bartolomeo are implied to have similar rap sheets, and I don't think he was ever properly EP'd.
edited 2nd May '18 2:40:30 PM by HamburgerTime
Both Shiliew and Caribou (since cut) were added basically from their first appearances before the thread had begun in earnest; that's just not good protocol either way.
Seems like in the post I linked, most people agreed that Shiliew should be cut...and then discussion just kind of stopped. I wasn't aware of this thread during that time, so I'm assuming people just forgot to cut him?
Aside from Shiliew, wasn't there a candidate in Marineford Arc other than Akainu, who was cut a couple of years ago? Just out of curiosity, who was they and why was they cut?
edited 2nd May '18 2:52:59 PM by Kookosbanaani
Yes to Wetzler.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I don't remember that; the only character I could see it being is Vice Admiral Onigumo.
edited 2nd May '18 2:55:00 PM by HamburgerTime
The only One Piece CMs I remember being cut were Spanda, Caribou, and Saint Charloss. None were from Marineford.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
If the experiments are onscreen, Wetzler.
@ dragonfire Same happened with Gharnef.
I still support cutting Shiliew.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Owing to that I know nothing about One Piece, I'm abstaining.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yea to Weztler and Tommy, given your pfp is deadass from One Piece, I'm gonna trust your judgement and say the dude's a cut.
I too am in favor in cutting Shiliew
edited 2nd May '18 3:46:37 PM by G-Editor
Yea, pick a word, I couldn't care less which but please, afterwards let's go with a new topic.