During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I guess it'll fall on me to write him up if approved then.
EDIT: I just finished writing it and will post if he's approved.
edited 6th Oct '17 8:30:38 AM by futuremoviewriter
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'm going to guess that this is indeed Pragmatic Villainy?
- Even Evil Has Standards: She's the head of the world's biggest drug cartel, but her employees are prohibited from doing drugs themselves. While it remains unclear whether that's a matter of principle for her or just a case of Pragmatic Villainy, failing to comply results in immediate and permanent contract termination.
How is that 'standards?' "Don't sample the product" that she's distributing to millions of people? It sure isn't based on moral opposition to drugs
I could imagine some weird double standard, there.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Goku Black
Found this on the darach from teen wolf's page is it disqualifying :
Well-Intentioned Extremist: The Darach has a pretty good motivation for her behavior: after Kali killed their pack, leaving only her emissary severely injured, she genuinely believed that the Alpha Pack are a danger to everyone and need to be stopped at all costs. Too bad she resorts to human sacrifices to achieve that end.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
I've brought up reasons to cut the Darach about four times now that I think are quite compelling and think we need to discuss this a final time as nobody tends to respond.
Goku Black
yeah cut her I read the other entries and she's not that bad and her goal is good at least in her head. Plus according to her page what happened to her. I if she wanted to kill all werewolves on the planet then yes too her but it seems she's only after the pack specifically so yeah.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Well, discussion date for the final season of Teen Wolf is in two days, FWIW.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
the problem though is she has a good Freudian excuse and unlike Luca blight and Ardyn she didn't go overboard to the point it didn't explain why she does that. Also the other 5 entries seem much worse from there character pages alone
edited 6th Oct '17 9:28:03 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Just one question: is crying or at least shedding a tear a disqualifying factor for a supposedly CM ?
edited 6th Oct '17 9:40:27 AM by MovieFan2000
One timeline version of Myers was cut for that one reason. Hell, movie!Jason Wynn didn't make the cut because of a brief expression of grief over his deceased right hand.
No, a Complete Monster might cry because their plan was stopped.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Case-by-case basis, ultimately. If it's an indicator of empathy, it's an instant cut.
Goku Black
For grief or remorse or because the author intended symphaty then sure. If not then its fine.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Goku Black
Could we please cut the darach though.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to the President.
Henry Evans cried in one scene in The Good Son, but that was clearly insincere because the next moment he's emotionlessly planning to kill his mother.
I only bring it up in case it wasn't clear.
That's 8-4 on the President now.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Make that 7-5.
edited 6th Oct '17 10:11:34 AM by futuremoviewriter
Goku Black
Switching too no after hearing everyone's opinion.
edited 6th Oct '17 10:07:01 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Goku Black
about jason if he didint make the cut because his hand. wouldnt that be more narcissm than actual emphaty as we have zamasu/ goku black who are quite friendly to each other but count because there the same guy.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Abstaining on the President. Cut the Darach.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Poppy, Unnamed President.
Goku Black
keep in mind for teen wolf the other entries are a guy who brainwashed his daughter and wanted too wipe all werewolves out for petty reasons and cause he could, an evil spirit that existed for years and killed many people as well as takes over someones body to torture that guys friends, a werewolf who killed 114 people, someone who abducts and experiments on teenagers which lead to there death and a nazi who reaps the souls of people. the darach does not seem that bad even with resources used to keep the other people and the other 5 i mentioned have no reason to be like that while she does have a reason and in all honestly she could count in season 3 alone but show had a heinousness spike and she has a lower body count than all of the above.
edited 6th Oct '17 10:38:51 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
As I also brought up? Jennifer, the Darach, has a redeeming quality. Word Of God confirms that she did love the werewolf Derek and she hesitates when attacking him in the last battle.
Nothing in the finale has changed this and it's past time we cut.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
If it's shown, that's fine, but we can't rely solely on Word of God for redeeming qualities.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I still gotta side with no vote on president. And I won't even provide a writeup for him.
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