During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Weak ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Rodrigo. He does kill the most people.
Yeah tentative for Rodrigo
edited 28th Jul '17 3:50:31 PM by G-Editor
No to Rodrigo. There's nowhere near enough new stuff and it to surpass the issues with heinousness that I see
Messenger from another dimension.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I repeat, the AC II standard is way too high. As I said, one of the main themes is that Templars strayed away from their Well-Intentioned goals. While that should on a first glance make it easier to have qualifiers, it actually makes it impossible since all villains become equally nasty and it's hard to find one that stands out. Borgia only stands out because he is the leader, but if any of his Templar peers was the grandmaster, they could be even more nasty. Also, anymore votes to cut Savonarola?
edited 28th Jul '17 4:00:31 PM by emperors
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
I'm not sure if this was approved or not...but can this image of Felix be used as the Web Original image of not?
Yeah, I don't really see a compelling case for Rodrigo's inclusion. I have basically no knowledge of the series after III but Rodrigo still has a lot of competition in heinousness.
That seems a little generic to me.
Messenger from another dimension.
AC is a series where heinous standard kinda gets retconned in each time era. Hell, if Maxwell Roth was in AC II, he probably wouldn't count either.
edited 28th Jul '17 4:09:04 PM by emperors
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Oh, good, so we don't have to compare ALL the AC entries against each other.
I do repeat, though, that Rodrigo having the most people killed is enough for me to give him a weak yes.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Messenger from another dimension.
Yes everybody listed is a very easy keep. Only Savonarola should go IMO. The fact that Borgia gets weak yes from some people only convinces me he doesn't count. Weak upvote generally isn't a good sign.
Well this is awkward, Rodrigo feels like an easy yes to me in all honesty.
I'm doing my post on Nicol Bolas in about an hour, but I have an update on a favorite web comic of mine. Order of the Stick may actually have a candidate to match Xykon. PM me if you want any details since the current arc is winding down but still not currently finished.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Well if the majority of voter voting outweighs those voting ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
it means than the candidate in question pretty much count even if they are weak
I'm also leaning towards cutting Savonarola
edited 28th Jul '17 5:26:11 PM by G-Editor
@Utter Koala: How about this
◊ from a few seconds earlier.
edited 28th Jul '17 5:30:55 PM by SatoshiBakura
to Biara.
Abstaining on the whole inclusion/cut deal over Assassin's creed, I don't know enough about the franchise to vote in clear confidence.
A while ago I discussed South Park in this regard and because morality is ridiculous in this show, no-one can qualify. But would it be possible for the more grounded The Simpsons to ever have a CM? The closest anyone got to it was Cecil Terwilinger and Russ Cargill's plan to destroy Springfield, which may be the most canon-reprehensible thing anyone has ever done on the show
It's somewhat more plausible than someone qualifying in South Park but still pretty unlikely in my opinion. You'd still have the issue of things not being portrayed seriously enough even if the heinous standard is lower.
edited 28th Jul '17 6:22:02 PM by TommyFresh
Yeah, no to Rodrigo. While his actions may have been more onscreen than we remember, the fact remains Rodrigo does not stand out in the series and that is clause to keep him off the trope, permanently.
I'd say no, no one can qualify in The Simpsons. Even actual villains like Cecil and Russ are prone to many, many comedic moments and the general tone of the series is virtually impossible to take seriously.
edited 28th Jul '17 6:38:07 PM by Scraggle
Totally concur...and then there's, y'know, Hank Scorpio, a would be mass murdering tyrant who takes over most of the East Coast, kills a ton of US soldiers and tries to torture James Bont to death....but is like the nicest boss ever who's not faking any of it, encourages Homer to do right by his family, gives the Simpsons a beautiful fruit basket to welcome them to the neighborhood and gives Homer the Denver Broncos.
Heinous standard's too up there.And I didn't even mention Monty "let's block out the sun for kicks" Burns
edited 28th Jul '17 6:50:49 PM by Lightysnake
I am pretty sure Cecil and Russ Cargail haven't done any worse than Mr. Burns....no one counts.
I don't think Mr Burns has tried to destroy a city though
So Simpsons robbed the heinous standard of meaning before South Park? In other words, Simpsons did it, Simpsons did it!
Both ASOIAF's book and show iteration have Ramsay as a quote example. May I give some diversity for a series rife with the worst of the worst?
edited 28th Jul '17 7:00:32 PM by RJ-19-CLOVIS-93
That's Dr. Title, thank you!
Cecil isn't even the only person in his family who tried to destroy a city; Sideshow Bob once tried to nuke Springfield, and only failed because he picked out a nostalgic model of an atomic bomb that was a dud.
The Simpsons heinous standard is surprisingly high.
Ok so Biara now has 2 yes votes, 1 no vote, and 2 uncertain votes. Do we have anymore votes for this candidate that I have brought up at least 6 times?
The Unknown
x3 Page quotes cannot have spoiler tags.
Never mind, I don't think you meant that for a page quote.
edited 28th Jul '17 7:19:15 PM by Karxrida
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
@Satoshi Bakura: Yeah! Let's use that one! But you may want to download it or something to make it bigger.
Will do. Thanks.![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")