During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Entity Video, is it possible to find one of him in the finale?
Yes to Excellinor.
Any other opinions on this Joker video? How do video submissions work for this trope by the way?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iLIHzolww1k
Entity video
Edited by SailorVenus372 on Jan 20th 2022 at 11:08:36 AM
I’m plotting my schemes wherever I go! They’re perfect in every way…
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Joker vid
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
She seems bad, and may even have a role in the slavery, but compared to Alvin who wants to go full genocide, I'm not sure she's bad enough, though I may be missing something.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Professor Gigachad
I was actually going to submit that one I seem to have missed it, joker video.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
She also goes with the genocide, she and alvin are both on the stealth dragon to steal the jewel. It's just Alvin who finds it in the scuffle and tries to unleash the plague
Edited by WetFlannels on Jan 20th 2022 at 7:13:12 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I mean, she goes along with it, but she doesn't think of it...you know, with her additional crimes, I'll give her a VERY cautious yes.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Classy, Refined, Unstable
I know there's people who deal with the drafts but does anyone send off the videos to be validated?
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Yes to Excellinor and now to close out Diablo, I give you Malthael.
Who is Malthael?
The Archangel Wisdom, born from the ruined form of Anu with the rest of the first angels, the Angiris Council, leaders of Angelkind. Malthael is the eldest of the Angiris and their leader. In this verse, Angels are beings of pure light and energy, each representing an aspect of reality or virtue: Malthael was Wisdom and the one who found the Worldstone, with the angels vowing to protect it.
The Great Conflict, war between the High Heavens and Burning Hells, dragged on without end for ages. Upon the discovery of Sanctuary, Malthael abstained from voting on the fate of humankind...after the destruction of the Worldstone, Malthael left the Council and began to wander the halls of Pandemonium...the order he desired was broken and humanity no longer figured into it. Malthael believed the human capacity to choose between good and evil was flawed. One goal sprang up in Malthael's mind: the eradication of humankind. Imprisoning many, many souls within himself from Pandemonium, Malthael became the Angel of Death. With a few co-conspirators, Malthael sowed some chaos and death in the world to keep his actions secret...
Malthael used the latent Black Soulstone, intending to corrupt the angels so they'd be his brainwashed servants to eradicate humankind...Tyrael deciding to seal away the Stone made him alter plans and he slaughtered those with Tyrael, reaping their souls. Not seeing Tyrael as an enemy without the demonic taint (yet), he spared him for the moment.
And then Malthael unleashed his Reapers. Descending on mankind, they slaughtered everything in their path, devastating entire kingdoms while Malthael intended to use the Black Soulstone to consume all humankind's souls while he fed off the reaped souls of those his reapers killed.
To prevent the angels from stopping him? He struck right at Heaven, horrifying his former brother Imperius at how far he was going. Imperius didn't care about humanity, but trying to kill the angels made him realize Malthael was way too far gone.
The Nephalem hero/es eventually confront Malthael at the heart of Pandemonium, who absorbs the Black Soulstone and all its power. Defeated, Malthael loses control of the spirits inside him, that rip their way out, Malthael writhing in agony before he disintegrates and bursts apart...
and unfortunately freeing the Evils and Diablo's dark essence...
Mitigating issues?
There's...no issue with heinous standard. Malthael's genocide is horrific and he attempts to corrupt the angels into tainted slaves of his own. Now, for a while I had dismissed Malthael for good intentions, but uh...he's not well intentioned. At all. He's a straight up Knight Templar so obsessed with destroying demons and it's eventually revealed by one weapon he'd been plotting the potential reaping of human souls a long time by crafting the Soulsmasher to shatter human souls...
Malthael's Reapers absolutely massacre everything in their path. Humankind is devastated by Malthael to the point that Diablo 4 has revealed about 90 percent of humanity is gone, with him barely stopped from wiping out the rest and...not just killing them, but taking their souls in really horrific fashion.
As to his intent...Malthael hates demons, but that doesn't make him good. While he does spare Tyrael at first due to lacking a demonic taint, Malthael later goes full back on this by assaulting heaven and he has no problem infecting angels with the Black Soulstone to corrupt them for his own devices.
Conclusion?
Thinking Malthael is a yes.
Professor Gigachad
I'm the one that handles the videos, I need to wait for the mods to approve them though, your one of the Sorceress is already pending.
Goku Black
Malthael
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Alright thanks for letting me know
Also Malthael
Professor Gigachad
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Malthael. Aside from going back on sparing Tyrael, it seems like a "not worth it" than anything redeeming.
Out of curiosity, are the any "good" (or at least not completely evil) demons in the series?
Think we need a page? This makes 8, and even though only 7 are on the VG page, the tree will be unwieldy.
With a page, we can have:
- Diablo and Mephisto
Specific Games
- Lazarus
- Izual
- Maghda
- Adria
Other Media
- Malevolyn
Not sure where Malthael would go (seems like he's all over; Literature???).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Professor Gigachad
That structure looks good to me.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Malthael is the villain of Diablo 3's expansion, he'll go with games.
for other potentials, Astrogha might keep from the book Moon the Spider and Balzael from the most recent book (one of Malthael's chief lieutenants)...Urzael, Malthael's right hand is close, but he may be too genuinely loyal to Malthael
Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 20th 2022 at 11:40:35 AM
Ultimate Moral Compass
Malthael
Goku Black
@acw:Their was a settlement of demons who gave up their evil ways. Lillith wiped them out though.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
to Miphisto, Light, Cho Sang Heon, Excellinor and Malthael.
Oh, hell yeah to Malthael, I remember you mentioning him keeping here a while back over on the MB thread and glad to see it came to fruition.
If someone wants to check Urzael or the novels, btw? Go for it.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
No good deed...Though I take it Lilith herself isn't bad enough?
Edited by ACW on Jan 20th 2022 at 2:42:33 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lilith might be bad enough from the Sin War, but Diablo IV's trailer shows her return, so "wait and see" is gonna be in full effect. No gonna waste time discussing someone set to be the big bad of an upcoming game.
Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 20th 2022 at 11:43:18 AM
I have a brand new video to submit as well this time of Evil Entity.