This is the thread we use to talk things over with people who have received a suspension notice. A lot of the time the notice goes out just so we can explain how seriously we take certain things, not because we want the person to feel bad and go away.
If you're suspended, give What to Do If You Are Suspended a read, then post here to begin your appeal. We try to respond to appeals in order via batch posts every few days. If a moderator has responded to your appeal, you will receive a notification in your private messages, even if you're suspended from PMs.
The Forum Rules
apply here.
Don'ts
- Don't be rude. Rule 1 applies here, too.
- Don't try to negotiate your suspension outside of this thread, such as by sending Private Messages to moderators or posting elsewhere. Such activity may be thumped or otherwise removed, and may warrant an additional suspension block if it keeps happening. All communications have to take place within this thread.
- Don't respond to other suspended users. This is a place for you to discuss your suspension, not others'.
- Don't post multiple times about your appeal if it hasn't been a few days since your last reply from us, since it makes it more difficult to compose responses. If you've posted, we're likely looking at it, and kindly request you to be more patient.
- Don't make another account to try and get around your suspension. This is called ban evasion and will get you bounced. (Again, read What to Do If You Are Suspended if you don't know what these words mean.)
Edited by Synchronicity on Jul 15th 2023 at 11:35:01 AM
~Neeku-Nekku-Nakuru-Nikua: Ban appeals that consist of accusing other people don't fly. And until you have successfully appealed the edit suspension, you shouldn't comment on Complete Monster at all.
~Rm74: Aye, you should be fine if you don't ask or recommend edits. Then again it's borderline, so not discussing trope examples at all while edit banned is also fine.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Okay, apparently I need to explain further. I won’t accuse anyone of anything, I won’t bother anyone, and I won’t aggressively vie for any monsters to be added like I did. I will behave and only propose, no other interactions that’s it. That way I can still add in my proposals and I won’t be a bother who breaks the rules for no reason other than ego. Is that better?
Thank you for clarifying.
However, while this does answer some of my questions I'm afraid it raises others and has left me confused, since it contradicts my understanding of the information presented on the Edit War page.
Specifically, "If person A adds/deletes something, person B removes/restores it, and A changes it back, A is edit warring. If B changes something, A reverts it, and B changes it again, B is edit warring. However, if A adds/deletes something, B removes/restores it, but it's C that changes it back, no one is considered guilty, but it should still be taken to an appropriate venue."
To be clear, I'm asking further because I want to understand the rules and where they lie so I can better follow them, so I want to clear up any confusion on my part.
It was my understanding from the above passage that in order to avoid an edit war I had to be concerned with keeping track of my own edits and that if anyone made a change to one of them that I disagreed with I should find resolution through the means previously outlined (P Ms, Discussion, Ask The Tropers, etc).
And that if an edit is constantly flitting back and forth between different editors each time (A does something, B changes it, C changes it back to As edit, D changes back to Bs edit) then nobody is guilty of an edit war, but the subject is clearly contentious enough that it should be taken to an appropriate venue to be discussed anyway.
And that my fault was therefore that I had forgotten the five day old edit was mine when I restored it. Hence wanting to know if there was a specific timeframe where I would be expected to keep track of my edits, whether I would be expected to keep track of them for weeks, months, or even years. Or in perpetuity.
But from what you are telling me now the issue was explicitly not that Distaff Counterpart was originally one of my old edits, but that I restored an edit at all, and as such would be a problem even if it was someone else's edit?
I'm afraid I might need this to be clarified for me.
As an aside, since it wasn't directly answered
Is there a specific timeframe in which I must keep track of my edits to avoid an edit war?
Edited by CrimsonOddball on Dec 3rd 2023 at 2:13:33 AM
he/him
At this point it's not just a question of how things are approached in the future. Your post in the policy thread has already made very serious, unsupported accusations about the behaviour of the mod team.
If you have evidence to support those allegations, you are free to contact the admins via the contact form (selecting "The Staff", not "The Moderators").
When your last suspension for poor conduct and offensive comments was lifted, you reassured us that you understood the need for an "emphasis on civility" and to "contribute positively and constructively". Unfortunately, your recent behaviour has been very different to that.
With that history in mind, and given the severity of the post that led to your latest suspension, we are treating this as a permanent forum ban and your appeal is denied.
The idea what I said was 'unsupported' is factually incorrect. These were not new allegations. All of them were answered a year prior, with support from the community. As I recall, we were promised an apology from the moderator who had minimized said Holocaust denial, but that didn't come because the moderator left the site. When it came to the issue of Madfoot, the moderator involved admitted his wrongdoing and stepped away from moderation of forums as a result.
Likewise, I object to the characterization of the previous thumps. During the same issues that arose last year around this time, it was pointed out myself and others had partially been punished because of the contents of private messages. Such a thing was discussed with the moderation, and moderation then admitted that such punishments had not been fairly dealt given.
I have accrued very few thumps throughout the entirety of that previous year. I have repeatedly pushed for a friendlier and more civil atmosphere in threads I have been involved with.
I have made accusations and I am willing to discuss them. Yes, I find it troubling during a time of rising antisemitism, T Vtropes chose to link Jewish people to Israel and ban antisemitism while dismissing these concerns as "pet issues."
T Vtropes moderation has given more leeway to people making transphobic edits and repeat offenders of rudeness and incivility. MY suspensions have been separated by a year with very different issues attached.
I have zero issues recusing myself from Wiki policy and OTC here, so I am a little confused why I am being given a permanent suspension here.
Gaming Fanatic
@Septimus Heap: I think I understand your remarks about the unnecessary link and the Oxford commas (I'm just used to applying Oxford commas to everything), but I don't quite understand what you mean by this:
- These are all details that should be stated in the example entry. The entry is supposed to work for people who know nothing about the work, and who are interested in knowing how the trope was used.
I assume that you're referring to my proposed tweaks to the Special Circumstances ZCEs, but I'm not entirely sure what kind of advice you're trying to give. On another note, I looked at the Ask The Tropers thread you linked, and I'll refrain from adding ZCEs and chained sinkholes in the future. Can I please edit again?
I assumed that the character involved didn’t fit too much of the trope. The character in question had committed acts that would make them a good candidate for the trope, but not to the level I thought was necessary to classify.
I will undo this edit if I am wrong.
Edited by Cggdd on Dec 3rd 2023 at 5:44:37 AM
I didn't see anything of the sort of an "Edit War" like you stated in the Reason For Edit page of the History, just a blank explanation for it with no rationale behind the deletion in the first edit I had made. The Second time I had put in the edit however when that one was deleted, the guy actually gave an explanation for its' deletion, but by that time I would have read it; I had already been suspended. So in the event of fairness, can't I just stick the Stupid Evil descriptor for Opaline Arcana into the YMMV page where there's little chance of causing harm so we can resume our daily schedule here?
Edited by Ohvist on Dec 3rd 2023 at 5:55:32 AM
Also, does anybody know how I can appeal myself or whatever? Because I don’t know what to do here, and I really would like to get back to work here. How do I appeal?
Ok. I will wait for agreement in the discussion thread (Or a few days without anyone replying) before reinstating an edit. And read the comments.
So I have received a suspension notice with the Watchers page. I would just like to say, I am just unhappy with the way the pages are edited. Troper tales aside, all of the examples and tropes are all based on context from the series and the comic. I will NOT put the tropes in if there is no certain examples.
However, I am seriously disappointed with the way some people are just removing and hiding the tropes without looking at the series and the comic book first. I am also working on getting the pictures for the page as I get that the context for some of the tropes are needed. However, with no permission from the creator regarding any pictures whatsoever, I gave more details following the current edits and still got a suspension. I do not expect to be unsuspended again, but I would like to ask why I am getting suspended despite my attempts to adhere to the rules and give more context to my tropes, and whether I can get my editing permission back.
Furthermore, I would also wish for people to see the series first before making edits. I get that it is a public page, but if you see the series, for even a tiny glimpse, the context is present. And also maybe some help on the side.
I do not wish to start an argument, I do not wish to yell, but I am tired from everything.
Edited by SophiaStones123 on Dec 4th 2023 at 2:50:00 AM
Lost in Space
SophiaStones123: If you wanted to have a good-faith conversation, you would not have attempted to ban evade. Since you did, you are now bounced.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
he/him
Moderators do not adjudicate cases that involve allegations of mod misconduct.
Due to that rule, the admins have confirmed that there's nothing more the mod team can discuss with you — and no scope for any appeal on this thread.
We've already reconfirmed the process for raising concerns about moderator behaviour. This thread isn't the right place for that — and neither is the Wiki Policy thread.
Any further posts here will not resolve anything.
Then I will present a case to the admins. Thank you for your time.
~Neeku-Nekku-Nakuru-Nikua: See Synchronicity's original reply. Your responses so far are a bit base and spent too much time accusing other people; perhaps you want to try again, responding to Synchronicity's points.
~Crimson Oddball: Discussing the readdition would have been warranted, yes. But I see that merely restoring someone else's edit does not automatically require discussion, it's best practice to have one however. There isn't a specific timeframe, as it depends on whether the edits can be considered part of a pattern. We'll lift the suspension.
~Bomber-Boi: In my opinion, the God Is Good example speaks a bit too little of how god is good in the series. You are still assuming that most readers will be familiar with how God is depicted in Christianity. Perhaps the Demon Slaying example might want to give an example of how the slaying typically takes place.
~Cggdd: Er, that wasn't the question - I was asking how you should handle the deletion of a thing when someone disagrees with the deletion.
~Ohvist: Stupid Evil isn't YMMV so it can't be put on the YMMV page. And yes, you were repeatedly readding the example - see your edits on the Nov 26th 2023 at 6:27:24 AM and the Nov 25th 2023 at 5:52:46 PM.
~Patches The Cat: Comments which in this case asked you to explain how the trope applied. Can you give an example of how the Always Someone Better example here should have given more detail?
What do you want me to say?! What else do I need to do so you can let me edit and propose again?!
It was only ever added-in twice. I CTRL-F'd for "Stupid Evil" in the page history and checked my edits on it just now. The word only ever cropped up 6 times: twice for the other bloke undoing the edits, and four times for me mostly because I went back to make some relatively minor edits to the first time I had the trope added in.
Gaming Fanatic
Again, I'm not really familiar with the Special Circumstances series, so I really can't go into further detail than what I already did. If it's not good enough, it might as well be covered up again until a troper who's more familiar with the series can patch it up further. I'll be more cautious about editing trope pages for works I'm unfamiliar with from now on.
Anyways, can I please get back to editing? I currently have a backlog of pages I'd like to touch up.
Edited by Bomber-Boi on Dec 5th 2023 at 12:35:21 PM
Thank you for entertaining my questions and clarifying.
I will note a minor concern that I am still suspended from editing, despite the statement that it has been lifted. Perhaps it's been forgotten?
If you or the other mods are aware of this and simply haven't gotten around to lifting it yet then I'm fine with waiting for a while.
Oh! Oh, that’s what you meant! Oh, jeez. I’m sorry. I should’ve started a discussion about the topic. I felt that she didn’t fit the category. I didn’t mean to start an edit war.
Edited by Cggdd on Dec 4th 2023 at 7:47:13 AM
I'd like the chance to edit again. The one and only issue I had was partaking in an editorial dispute over the naming of a season. I acknowledge that I was wrong to repeatedly edit out something. I wasn't familiar with how these edits are resolved as I only tried to communicate my stance using the PM feature but was never responded to. I tried to apologize about getting too eager to edit it in a way I thought made sense. I never really brought these kinds of issues before in the time I've been here nor do I want to repeat them.
I'll follow the policy as close as I can in the future and avoid future edit wars. Feel free to hold me to that, please let me edit again.
Edited by AcidicRafter2 on Dec 7th 2023 at 3:07:56 AM
Okay, I admit it, alright? I was childish, pathetic, irresponsible, and egotistical, and had been annoying and pestering these good people who have their own separate lives. I admit that I shouldn’t have edit warred, especially since now I know what it is, I have been giving these admins problems, and I was a little hostile about my reasons for some of my edits. I am new here, see, so therefore I have not gotten the chance to read the rules and obey them accordingly, but now that I have, I promise that I will follow them to the letter, and make sure that I don’t cause any more problems. If you forgive me, I promise that I will remain professional and respectful towards my fellow editors, I will only make productive edits including the reasons for me doing so, any questions or planned edits will first be discussed with the staff and confirmed, and I will not break any rules to the best of my ability. Please give me another chance Synchronicity and you will not regret it, I will not be a pest anymore.
Edited by Neeku-Nekku-Nakuru-Nikua on Dec 5th 2023 at 12:30:52 PM
Visiting from the Hoag Galaxy
Uh, sorry if this breaks the rules, but just a heads up: I updated my appeal a bit. I realized that I was just trying to make excuses and I realized how dumb that was.
Not Three Laws compliant.
Excuse me, I didn’t really clarify myself, I said that I will still do examples for Complete Monsters, but I won’t be a pest about it, nor act immature or entitled overall in my editing behavior, that’s what I said. So I will still propose monsters, but that’s all I will do, otherwise I won’t bother or ask the wrong questions or repeat the same questions when it should be obvious already. Also, I didn’t act like those other editors, where they openly say xenophobic things and profanity and think that makes them better than everyone else. I can promise you without argument or exaggeration that that will never be me. Did that clear things up for you?
Edited by Neeku-Nekku-Nakuru-Nikua on Dec 3rd 2023 at 11:47:32 AM