Policy on in-line use of work title redirects

So I questioned ~Beer Baron on why they changed a couple links in an example on Humongous-Headed Hammer from the subtitle redirects on a couple Elder Scrolls games, to potholes directly to the page. E.g. VideoGame.Morrowind became [[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIIIMorrowind Morrowind]]. By way of reply they pointed me at this Ask the Tropers query.

For reference, the example as originally written:

• The Elder Scrolls: The warhammer Volendrung, present throughout the series, is an artifact originally made by the Dwemer Rourken clan, though it later became associated with the Daedric Prince Malacath. When it was thrown across Tamriel, it landed in a place that became known as Volenfell, and later Hammerfell. As a weapon, it is often portrayed as a hammer whose blows strike so hard they either weaken or paralyze the target (though it lacks any enchantment in Morrowind). Its exact look varies between games, but it has always had a long, two-handed haft, connected to a gigantic brick of a head that acquired a spike on either striking face in Daggerfall.

I understand the argument for naming the work in full instead of using a redirect the first time when the example is for an individual game, but this seems like a bit of a gray area: the example is for the entire Elder Scrolls series, and the redirects are used in-line to mention a couple variations.

Yeah, like I said in the message, I'm basing it on that ATT post. I'm fully in favor of abbreviating to just the subtitle, as that makes for a much easier, less repetitive read than repeating (in this case) The Elder Scrolls X: Subtitle over and over, especially in-line.

My issue was more the use of the redirects themselves. It's my belief that works should be using their main namespace link and then paring it down (ex. [[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIIIMorrowind Morrowind]])

Edited by BeerBaron on Jan 24th 2024 at 5:41:06 AM

Using the redirect isn't really problematic, since it also takes you to the work page. I do prefer the link spell out the full name so it doesn't hop to a redirect and then to the page (e.g. [[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIIIMorrowind Morrowind]]), and that's the correct title, anyway.

Redirects are meant for search purposes. We don't have a technical need to make pages shorter where possibke.

So far, it doesn't sound like anyone has an issue with abbreviating to the subtitle, which is good. I don't think that part was even in question between Star Sword and myself.

Just the method of paring down the full name link vs. using the redirect, and it sounds like we shouldn't be using the redirect for that.

Ultimately, the function is the same (you end up on the work page) and visually, they look the same on the page. If using the full name saves a step, however minor, it's worth it to me.

The issue for me is that, as an editor, it actually adds a step if I have to pothole the entire work title instead of just typing the redirect from a subtitle that's the same as as the pothole's displayed text.

I mean, you don't have to, but if someone wants to and is willing to go around making that change, does it actually harm anything?

Unnecessary but ultimately benign changes are... fine?

Edited by RainehDaze on Jan 25th 2024 at 11:20:11 AM

I've always sort of been on the side of "who cares if it's a redirect", like not all redirects are just for search purposes and so going through a pothole when the actual title is already a redirect just feels pointless. Sticking way too much to the letter of the rule rather than identifying if it makes any difference.

^^ That approach is fine by me too.

It's probably one of those things where there's a "first come..." temptation too, by my argument against that is that most (if not all?) things where that standard is applied results in a few characters difference on a page. Using the redirect changes the "This article is the target of ____ redirects..." part on the Related page that can number in the hundreds for some series and I'm sure negatively impacts certain efforts and counts.

(x6) I always thought the only time we need to actually use the "original" article title and not a redirect are for trope names and listing works on indexes. Or if we need to use the English Localization title of a work with an originally non-English title.

Otherwise, just follow Wikipedia's deal and use the redirects if you want

There's no harm in using Birds of Prey (and the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn) instead of Birds of Prey (2020)