Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Showtime!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Exactly, hence why I said "them" instead of addressing Neeku
Here’s someone more appropriate to be a monster.
What is the work? Highlander The Search for Vengeance. The anime adaptation of the underrated Highlander franchise already has a monster, and his name is Marcus Octavius. It follows Colin Mac Leod desperately, violently, and stupidly seeking vengeance on Marcus because he murdered his wife and tribe centuries ago.
Who are the people? Kyala is Marcus Octavius’ equally psychotic and megalomaniacal girlfriend, technically concubine but still. She was once an Asian warrior who was seduced by Marcus into actively assisting his radical philosophy of building a new Rome out of blood.
What atrocities did he/she/they do? Despite not having the same amount of screen time as Marcus does, it is blatantly clear that she is even more unhinged than him. Her very first appearance showcased her stabbing her sparring partner in the eye during training, before having sex with Marcus immediately after due to her being amused with her successful kill. She also knows about the catastrophic damage that Marcus caused with a lethal contagion, but doesn’t care, as she is implied to have had a hand in the massive body counts that impacted the present day. Later, she stabbed Gregor in the neck with savage glee, before sadistically using her helicopter to gun down her own troops in an attempt to kill Colin. Finally, she executed Colin’s present lover Dahlia as soon as she was defeated by her, using her final moments to mock her impending death and how much she looks forward to bring about the end of the world with Marcus.
Redeeming/mitigating/sympathetic factors? What better way to explain this clearly? You know Groomer from Road Rovers and Patsy from Class of 1984? Well, Kyala definitely has that megalomaniacal devotion to the main antagonist as Groomer does, and she had that deranged personality as Patsy, except that Kyala leans more into the Patsy category instead of Groomer, as while she does seem like she cares for Marcus, it is purely for sadistic and megalomaniacal reasons, as they both enjoy decimating the huge number of humanity and spreading their lethal weapons around the world. She even openly mocked the love of Dahlia for Colin after stabbing her, stating that he will die soon by him.
What makes him/her/them stand out? Despite again not having as much screen time and thus more chances of displaying any redemptive traits, she still stands out on this dark and violent movie as a legitimately sadistic and violent killer who used her immortality for destructive purposes and not to better herself or others. She may not be as personal as Marcus, but that doesn’t mean that she isn’t on her own side just as dangerous and evil as he is. She is treated with wariness and fear by her own minions in the very few times they interact with her.
Treated with fear? In the very few screen time she had available, as well as the very few interactions she had, Kyala is shown to be feared even more than Marcus himself, with even the smug, genocidal coward Gregor being visibly nervous and scared around her during his final moments. Kyala’s callousness due to her recklessly firing on her own troops just to get at Colin doesn’t net her any respect from her soldiers. Finally, during her battle with Dahlia, you can easily tell from the way they both desperately try to rip each other to shreds that neither women particularly like each other, especially considering the fact that Kyala did actively assist Marcus in decimating the entire world and turning the remnants into an elitist dictatorship.
Conclusion? Marcus and Kyala definitely are monsters and deserve to be together even in depravity and monstrosity as well. Both are unstable megalomaniacs who made the most out of their screen time as legitimate monsters due to their combined sheer hypocrisy and delusions of grandeur, with none of their alleged redeeming or altruistic motivations being enough to justify their actions.
Also, I really don’t know who did Heller. Like I said, he was there long before I showed up, so I can’t tell you who because I genuinely don’t know. I just tell you about him because I have read his entry a couple of times. Otherwise, sorry, but I am the wrong person to ask for this.
Edited by Neeku-Nekku-Nakuru-Nikua on Dec 14th 2023 at 1:16:26 AM
I’m gonna just abstain on Roygar and Neeku please don’t frantically post when people make requests or ask questions. No one is out to get you, it’s just a lot of text to copy paste over (please blank one of those) and really be sure a character is a Nazi expy before drawing a comparison.
No there, I’ve seen the movie and she’s genuinely grateful to Marcus and in love with him for saving her life. Also being evil doesn’t take away her caring about him and he’s so much worse anyways, the guide has ridden with dozens of evil armies including being a Nazi himself before he tries to enact the kill virus plot.
Edited by 43110 on Dec 14th 2023 at 4:17:49 AM
Neeku, the response to people questioning your proposal should be "answer the questions" and not "propose someone completely different"
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Ultimate Moral Compass
Especially someone who doesn’t count.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Kyala
So no on Roygar, then? And again, Heller has apparently been included for a while now, because by the time I showed up here, his entry was in the Ultra section, his name is there, and all that. I genuinely don’t know who put Heller in there or how long he had been there, because by the time I showed up, he’d already been added. So I am sorry but I swear I don’t know who put in Heller. I’m telling you the truth.
It's not no for Roygar. People just having questions about some potential redeeming quality you mentioned in the post. And some people want a second opinion from someone else who’s also familiar with the work.
Just relaxe and wait for more people to chime in.
Okay, but just know that I am not lying or covering anything up. I swear I don’t know the answer.
Showtime!
I am not saying you put Heller in. Noone is saying you put Heller in. I am saying I would like to get a second opinion and it would be best to get it from the person who propsed the current monster
to Kyala
Neeku calm down. We're not accusing you of anything.
Kyala
Relaxe, I believe you. You don't need to panic everytime someone asks a question or you made a mistake. 
By the way, I fixed the second post so that the unintended mention of a redeeming quality is fixed. Now I revealed that he went to conquer U-40 for revenge and spite not because of Heller or gratitude, so I clarified that. My apologies. Hopefully that changes things for you.
Also, I am sorry but I am on edge. Ever since I got blocked because of my conduct from earlier, I am very paranoid over what I say or do that would get me booted out, because I don’t want to look like I am unprofessional and disrespectful.
Edited by Neeku-Nekku-Nakuru-Nikua on Dec 14th 2023 at 1:29:40 AM
Not the Eye
to Kyala
Here is Heller’s EP. Heinousness section does imply that there is more Ryogar’s code of honor that EP’s imply, so it seems it is best we as Vengeful Bale for opinion
Showtime!
Yeah, if you edited the character page that's... probably not great. We're not really supposed to decide information is inaccurate based solely on the character being proposed as a CM
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
The Ultimate Lifeform
“ The only one to almost reach his heinousness standard would be his second-in-command, Roygar, but even the latter has something of a code of honor and is willing to die with his soldiers with dignity”
Can you refute this? Please do so calmly, we need to relax on the panic posts Neeku.
RIP Toriyama
Abstaining on these posts, have heavy doubts on the validity of things.
- Dune (1984):
- Baron (Will post soon)
- "The Beast" Rabban is a hulking brute who serves as the Baron's powerful fist in attacking Arrakis. Leading the charge in slaughtering House Atreides, Rabban personally, torturously murders Dr. Kynes with a smile on his face. When tasked with carrying out the genocide of the Fremen, Rabban accepts the mission with relish, taking every opportunity he can to massacre the Fremen. His own troops fare no better, as Rabban repays a soldier who failed him by crushing the man's skull in a petulant rage.
- Dune:
- Baron
- Glossu "the Beast" Rabban is the most evil of the Baron's nephews. A barbarous sadist who believes strength to be the defining morality of the universe, Rabban rejected his own loving parents to instead follow in the footsteps of his uncle the Baron, valuing the man's power and ruthlessness. Becoming a hated warlord across the galaxy, Rabban murdered his own family and subjugated his homeworld to brutal tyrant in order to solidify his moniker of "the Beast". Rabban's crushing tyranny sees him head up Harkonnen "pleasure houses" for sex trafficking of countless people; oversee slave pits where he routinely murders the weak, infirmed and elderly; and force children to participate in "hunts" in which Rabban tracks down and kills them fornsport. Rabban has personal enmity with a variety of allies to House Atreides, from murdering Duncan's parents in front of him; to torturing Gurney's village to death before gangraping and strangling his sister while forcing the man to watch; and poisoning a major water and food supply of the Atreides homeworld. When he is tasked to rule Arrakis with an iron fist, Rabban ushers in his reign by butchering 3 villages and torturing the village children to death in front of their parents for fun, and later leads the genocide attempt against the Fremen with relish.
Okay, first off, panic posts? Don’t call them that, because then you make me out to be some hysterical, immature idiot. I was only explaining why I panicked, that’s all. Second, so Roygar and Heller were both out for revenge on U-40 because the planet had rejected their plans to make the species immortal in exchange for their shape shifting. When they became exiles, they fashion a Nazi-like empire where they establish themselves to be a fearsome force in the galaxy. Now to refute your claim, Roygar’s “code of honor” is just a superiority complex at best and manipulativeness at worst. He was readily willing to throw away the lives of his own soldiers against Ultraman, and he sent waves after waves of the monsters that he brainwashed after him solely to destroy the hopes of Planet Earth and leave it vulnerable for invasion. As for his dignified death? He may have chosen to die in the exploding ship, but he only did so as a last laugh against Ultraman, because he wanted to torture Amia, and when he knew he couldn’t get the chance and got cornered, he let himself get killed so that Heller would capture Amia instead. Not only that, he also used his last words to taunt Ultraman that Heller will kill Amia and destroy Earth out of spite. Did that clear things up for you?
Showtime!
Given that we've discovered your Godzilla EP was almost entirely incorrect, no, it doesn't. I don't think I can trust any of your eps
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
I did not call you a hysterical immature idiot and the accusation that I said the equivalent is insulting.
![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
Neeku, you kept posting extremely defensive posts that didn't actually answer the questions while going on about something that no one accused you of, and given that it turns out your post for Godzilla was apparently almost completely false, no that does not clear anything up.
Edited by Agentofchaos on Dec 14th 2023 at 5:38:17 AM
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
First of all, what are you talking about, Godzilla? This is Ultraman I was talking about. Different franchise. Second, I apologize, let me rephrase. Roygar’s alleged “code of honor” is solely him making up an excuse for his own superiority complex, and his care for his men, very easily undermined because he sends them all to die for the chance of invading Earth and killing Ultraman. Also, his “dignified” death is basically him buying time long enough for Ultraman to fail at rescuing Amia, who he already had preemptively sent straight to Heller just to spite him. Even his own final moments were not that of a honorable warrior, but as a madman taunting his enemy about how he is the better man, you know he basically says, “You may have defeated my forces and cornered me, but I still win. I took away your girl, my boss will make her suffer, and there’s nothing you can do about it. I wish I would see both of you die, but I guess this is the only way I will win this fight.”
Okay, is that better?
Mr.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
To Gaul, Rasputin, and Aamon.
For Godzilla we mean Spiel, Neeku I do not trust you, you have shown yourself willing to flat out make stuff up to make a character count and I have every reason to believe you're continuing that here
Edited by Agentofchaos on Dec 14th 2023 at 5:46:58 AM
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Library wasn't accusing you of doing Heller, just asking who did them since they obviously know the series.
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her