Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard (MB) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List
Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a MB has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's MBs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any MB link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an MB link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved MBs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their MB equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:36:43 AM
Goku Black
Huh not sure? Do people want new eps. Or is just a rewrite okay ? I'll leave it to you guys.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Not the Eye
I could go either way. Eps would be fun, but I do get if people think it is too much work for character(s) we know counts and already has an entry.
IIRC Doc didn't you do an EP (and even writeups!) meant to encompass the games/timelines you felt he landed in?
The wifi here sucks
I'm not opposed to new effort posts but the only one who might actually need it is the Four Swords Adventures version.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
My original EP was written with the idea that Ganondorf, as a singular recurring entity, had to qualify. Since we're now taking each appearance individually (or at least, on a timeline basis), some of the context changes. There's four versions worth giving individual entries, so to break it down:
- The Wind Waker and Twilight Princess Dorfs are easy keepers and can probably go straight to the rewrite. My memory's not clean enough to do so myself at the moment, so anyone can take them.
- Ocarina of Time Dorf ends the game on a kinda shnasty Villainous Breakdown. He previously got a pass here because he segues into the above two versions immediately afterwards, and that pass probably still remains, but I figure this is worth mentioning.
- A Link to the Past is a SNES game and those aren't exactly richly characterized, especially since this version debuted before Dorf got his personality set in stone. This one I think really should get its own EP because I genuinely don't know if he makes it here.
Put short: Wind Waker and Twilight Princess should be good, Ocarina of Time is a maybe, and A Link to the Past should be done from the top.
Also thank you all for the warm welcome back, my friends. I missed you guys dearly. < 3
Pleasure Doc and unless anyone's got questions I think we're probably fine to rewrite the first two and EP the latter ones.
The wifi here sucks
I'm in agreement with Doc. I think oot Ganon is fine since he does bounce back but I'm not opposed to an EP for him. Actually is no one minds, I'd like to look into the Four Swords Adventures version and EP him.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
It's been a while but imo it depends on how well she bounces back from the betrayal and how much she helps Link defeat Yuga (think May Day where her response to the betrayal is to completely ruin her boss' plans)
Edited by papyru30 on May 27th 2023 at 11:12:03 AM
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Hi, I've been thinking about getting back into the MB threads and with all this Zelda talk has made wonder about Hilda from A Link between worlds, it's just I want to know of other people think Yuga betraying her is too much of a mark against her
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Ignore, misread.
Edited by WetFlannels on May 27th 2023 at 10:56:57 AM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.He was cut a few days ago for flying off the lid too much and being subject to slapstick too much
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Classy, Refined, Unstable
The flipping his shit I could get but the slapstick? That was in his first appearance where he really doesn't do shit. I don't recall there being slapstick for his American expedition. He gets enraged out of panic when Hiccup falls into the slave hold since he's aware he's losing his ticket to America and the slaves are known to despise Vikings. I thought his VB would've been nullified by him somehow joining the people he once enslaved in Book 12 but eh, he wasn't a confident post of mine compared to Furious.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.Here's the post that got him cut
Caesar
Aight with the recent Ace Attorney talk going on on CM, I unfortunately have a cut to bring up. From Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth 2:
- The nefarious yet seemingly-affable Simon Keyes, a circus animal trainer, poses as an innocent defendant while truly manipulating the entire game's events from the shadows. In the first two cases, Keyes sets up an assassination attempt on the president's body double; and convinces Miles Edgeworth to go against the Prosecutorial Investigation Committee (PIC) and gets Edgeworth to defend him for murder. Intercepting the correspondence between Sirhan Dogen and Horace Knightley, Keyes tricks the Prison Warden into killing his former friend. In the fourth case Keyes sets up the Chairman of the PIC to kill an attorney, then gets Miles—who has been stripped of his Prosecutor Badge—to defend the amnesiac Kay Faraday for the murder. Even when defeated by Miles in the end, Keyes congratulates his Worthy Opponent and ultimately succeeds in "taking care of" all of his own and Dogen's enemies.
Simon is really, really damn good for most of the game, and even when confronted with his crimes he's hella good at Xanatos Speed Chess, but the sad fact is that when he's truly beaten? He goes through an extremely humiliating breakdown where he shrieks at everyone, cries for his father, tearfully whines that his victims were "bad" and deserved it, and when even his precious animals turn on him in anger, he gets humiliatingly slapstick'd by them and left a sobbing heap. It's a dreadful Villainous Breakdown that I think takes out an otherwise pitch perfect MB.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!Why does his entry say he congratulated Miles when he beat him then?
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
"Cut" Keyes. Unfortunate, but the VB is too much for me.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
He's broken and teary-eyed when he concedes. Like, post-breakdown, he's utterly shattered and doesn't really regain a lot of dignity.
Edited by Scraggle on May 27th 2023 at 6:07:34 AM
Ultimate Moral Compass
Cut Keyes
"No running in the halls!"Yeah, axe Simon then
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Hmm I thought Norbert not being the recipient with much slapstick in his plot where he stands out would've nullified his amusing injuries. The getting shot in the ass in book 4 isn't just the basis of a joke, he's mid chase against Fishlegs who attacked him first and Hiccup shoots an arrow at him, hitting his ass.
As for the VB? Eh I thought the book 12 appearance nullified it for me but he's not one Imma die on.
Also cut Simon.
Edited by WetFlannels on May 27th 2023 at 1:09:11 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Caesar
Yeah, his "congratulations" is like a bitter, pouty "well...you beat me" through tears, not any kind of meaningful Graceful Loser moment.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
The Moron
Having seen the VB myself, cut Keyes
Cut Keyes.
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Cut Simon. I used to think that his breakdown wasn't preventing since he still gets what he wants anyways but he really doesn't recover from his breakdown.
Cut Keyes
The Clown is in town (*he*/she/they)
Cut Keyes.
Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice. (also i'm fluid now)
I'm good with a Gabondirf split. Would he need reproposed as a formality?