Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard (MB) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List
Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a MB has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's MBs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any MB link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an MB link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved MBs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their MB equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:36:43 AM
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Nice to inform, but if you want to propose her, I recommend doing so at the proposal thread.
Hello, welcome and I look forward to it, though we try to avoid giving plot details until a new release has been out for two weeks.
An Eldritch Troper
I just noticed that Tabs has added the links for both the proposal and cleanup threads (this one) to the page source for Magnificent Bastard, but the links are commented out. May we be allowed to post the links onto the page itself (removing the comments)? I remember we had a link of the old thread before the temporary shutdown.
Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
Wet's just asked about that on the Restart thread, I'm sure we'll get an answer soon.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
It's been sorted for both!
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Having rewatched 16 Blocks this week too in order to see exactly how the movie played as the version with the alternate ending—in the past, I'd only ever seen the alternate ending separately from the movie rather than with it, I realize there's a couple other details with Nugent's entry I wanted to iron out too.
Current:
- 16 Blocks: Det. Frank Nugent is an NYPD cop seeking to keep thief Eddie Bunker from testifying against him and other corrupt cops involved in witness tampering. Nugent himself threatens a witness in order to give him a heart attack. He arranges for two drug addicts to kill Eddie and when this fails because of his former partner Det. Jack Mosley, Nugent arranges a plan for Eddie to be killed attempting to escape. Jack protects Eddie and Nugent tirelessly pursues them throughout the city, making use of a stolen police radio to track them and later the stoic Nugent is barely phased when Eddie holds a gun on him. When the crooked Jack decides he will testify instead of Eddie, Nugent resolves to have him killed to prevent it. In the version with the alternate ending though, Nugent decides to order his man to stand down instead of kill Jack and then even puts himself in the line of fire to try to save Jack, clearly feeling guilty when he fails.
Suggestion:
- 16 Blocks: Det. Frank Nugent is an NYPD cop seeking to keep thief Eddie Bunker from testifying against him and other corrupt cops involved in witness tampering. Nugent himself having threatened a witness who had a heart attack as a result. He arranges for two drug addicts to kill Eddie and when this fails because of his former partner Det. Jack Mosley, Nugent arranges a plan for Eddie to be killed attempting to escape. Jack protects Eddie and Nugent tirelessly—with both his wits and his instincts—pursues them throughout the city, making use of a stolen police radio to track them and later the stoic Nugent is barely phased when Eddie holds a gun on him. When the crooked Jack decides he will testify instead of Eddie, Nugent resolves to have him killed to prevent it. In the version with the alternate ending though, Nugent decides to order his man to stand down instead of kill Jack and then even puts himself in the line of fire to try to save Jack, clearly feeling guilty when he fails.
I know it's not necessary to bring every little change here. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't acting without permission though is all.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 19th 2023 at 2:09:30 AM
I don't think the second addition is necessary. We can infer he's bright and tenacious.
Fair enough. The final version will reflect that.
Caesar
So I was just reminded of this one, someone I've been meaning to bring up as a cut. I did him nearly 2(?!) years ago and truly felt he passed then, but on reflection I think he can go. From Danny Phantom:
- Frederich Isak Showenhower, known to all as Freakshow, is the theatrical ringmaster of Circus Gothica, using his magical staff to control ghosts into being his ghoulish circus performers. Beloved by teenagers countrywide, Freakshow uses his circus to mask strings of robberies he has his ghosts pull off for him, and enters Amity Park with intent to do the same, controlling Danny Phantom himself as a new slave. When beaten and his staff broken, Freakshow is imprisoned only for a time by the Guys in White before outwitting them and escaping, taking control of the legendary Reality Gauntlet in the process. Dubbing himself "ringmaster of all reality" and forcing Danny and his friends to recover the Reality Gems for him while threatening their families, Freakshow takes control of reality itself and comes within a hair's breadth of ultimate victory and instilling his reign of terror permanently.
Freakshow's great and I love the dude but he's ultimately tricked into his own defeat by the hero pushing his Berserk Button of being insecure that he's not a ghost, which—while Played for Laughs—was frequently shown to make him get pissy and ego-offended.
I give some leeway to his final defeat being "Danny preys on his ego and tricks him" because he's a cartoon villain and it's not the only MB who's had that done to them, but the fact that Danny does so by preying on Freakshow's "ghost envy" which is established as his Berserk Button that makes him pissy, irrational and insecure—even if not to a full-on Villainous Breakdown extent—is enough for me to say he should be cut. All credit to jjjj for initially having heavy doubts on him and for, ultimately, retroactively convincing me when I looked back on the arguments recently!
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Freakshow also is shown to be free and be a ghost later on in the Grand Finale, meaning he still eventually got what he wanted in the end. He got to go out a high note there. I know that's not the strongest argument, but it's…an argument. Hahaha. (Shrug.)
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 19th 2023 at 8:51:09 AM
Yeah always been iffy on him. Cut Freakshow.
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
I think I'm with future on this one. Keep Freakshow.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Does he do anything in the finale? Only thing I remember from that was Vlad saying this isn't so bad before the meteor yeets him.
Edited by WetFlannels on Mar 19th 2023 at 3:50:53 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Caesar
Nah, I can't hold that finale towards him, it's a blink-and-you'll-miss-it cameo that makes no sense in-universe and was likely an animator's error more than anything. His last proper appearance has him beaten by his berserk button being pressed and him being tricked with his own ego.
Edited by Ravok on Mar 19th 2023 at 8:53:09 AM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
It's a Freeze-Frame Bonus. We have no idea how he got to that form. He has no dialogue and no follow up from his last appearance. It might've been an animation mistake.
![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
'd.
Edited by jjjj2 on Mar 19th 2023 at 11:53:06 AM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Anybody BTS address it by any chance? Also, mistake or not, it's still in there and it's noticeable—even if not notable.
Woagh
Leaning cut on Freakshow.
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Don't think it makes a difference if he doesn't do anything and his last major appearance was an emotional breakdown?
Edited by WetFlannels on Mar 19th 2023 at 3:57:56 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Lies and Violence!
Yeah... I'm not going to count a Freeze-Frame Bonus as evidence of a recovery.
I think I voted yes last time? I don't have a large stake in this one way or another. If Ravok was the one who did him before and says he should go now, then I trust his judgement. Cut Clown Thanos.
Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Mar 19th 2023 at 12:01:49 PM
Caesar
Yeah, I absolutely love the dude and I did earnestly feel he kept then, but rewatching the eps recently I think it's made way too apparent that Freakshow has a heavy Berserk Button that sends him into—frankly—mini-tantrums that Danny is able to exploit at the end even when Freakshow has all the power.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
I brought up Freakshow once before and still feel he doesn't count. If I remember right, he throws a fit over said Berserk Button (which he reveals on a whim) and gets tricked into his defeat. Cut him.
Well he was among all the ghosts helping to phase the Earth so that the ghost-energy meteor would pass right through it, so there's that.
You know what, screw it. ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to keeping Freakshow. Unfortunate as it is, there's not enough to argue against it.
Cut Freakshow
Cut Freakshow. I believe I abstained even then.
I am going to make a post for The Glory, which is a K-Drama about a victim of severe bullying in high school hatching a complex plot over 16 episodes to get back at her bullies. I intend to propose the main character Moon Dong-eun as an MB.
As the series just finished on March 10, 2023, I will make my post on March 24, 2023.