Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Took care of that fanfic.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
so it’s like a mixture of the work and genre. Ok still I think Hopgood can stay with he has little resources and is unique to still stand (a snuff filmer who arranges sexual assaults and films them is unique even for a 40s detectives story)
I think Hopgood is fine to keep from what I'm reading.
Not the Eye
Keep Hopgood.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
that does Remind me of one I still have to check from anime.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Jan 21st 2023 at 2:45:08 AM
Hi everyone. So this is will be my first removal after what my first EP went right now. Here is a character that after looking at their actions I honestly feel this character might need to go and that character's name is Masashi Sudoh/Scissors.
- Masashi Sudoh/Kamen Rider Scissors is a detective who uses his position to cover up his illegal acts. Asked for a larger share of the profits by his partner, Sudoh kills him and plasters him into the wall of his own shop to hide the evidence. When Shiro Kanzaki offers him an Advent Deck, Sudoh agrees in order to use the Contract Monster he's given, Volcancer, to feed it to anyone who knows of his crimes, doing so to countless people who've come too close. He later attempts to kill a reporter inspecting his shop and Shinji Kido after he offers peace, along with anyone close to him to keep them quiet and hold Yui hostage from Shiro. With his crimes discovered, Sudoh follows it up by feeding two cops attempting to arrest him to Volcancer before he succumbs to the same fate as them. Despite having little screentime, Sudoh was the first demonstration that some Riders were selfish people with only their own interests in mind, willing to stoop to absolute lows.
My main problem with him is the fact he fails the massive heinous standard of the series hard especially compared to other villains who did so much worse than Masashi. While he is a minor villain some villains have way fewer resources or screen time than him and yet manage to stand out.
Let me give you a rundown of the crimes others committed.
- Takeshi Asakura: He kills his own family such as his brother, murders hundreds of police officers, killed 4 riders, and then attempts to kill a girl. All on-screen btw.
- Satoru Tojo: He killed riders with even the alternate versions of them before targeting Yui just so he could become the hero.
- Jun Shibaura: Brainwashed many people just for them to kill each other, as said early attempts to brainwash Japan leading to many people going insane and then using all the riders just For the Evulz.
- Ryuga: Kills Femme and then attempts to kill both Knight and Ryuki.
- Then we have the other characters such as Alternative, Alternative Zero, Imperer, Odin, Zolda, Knight and Femme. All attempted murders with Femme having a murder; Zolda, Knight, and Femme are heroes showing how high this heinous standard is right there
Every single one of them is all from themselves. I could have just gone on about those horrible acts but you get the idea of where I am coming from at this point. Then we move to Scissors himself.
He murdered his partner just because he wanted to share the money. This act was completely off-screen. Attempts to kill Reiko which is completely standard in the series. Even though he says he will silence anyone who gets in his way no one is seen being silenced by him. He tries to kill Shinji which is also standard. Kidnaps Yui but it does not make a difference considering that Tiger and Gai did the same thing with one of them attempting to kill Yui. Finally, he kills two police officers with the help of Volcancer before his death.
That's all he does. Literally.
It also does not help the fact he has an entire police department while also having a position to conceal his activity meaning he has more resources than everyone I have listed.
The entire series itself is about murder and whenever one is something horrible or worse. Shibaura uses manipulations as humans before making them kill each other all for giggles and then tries to brainwash Japan causing many people to go insane. If that's not enough he even feeds humans to his monsters which honestly makes Scissors look like a saint in comparison making him even less chance of passing the standard. That's not all there are many more kills in Rider such as Satoru Tojo that hold more weight.
So overall, I think Scissors fails the general standard of the series by not having any unique crimes, and influence and is one of those "With Two Episodes to Stay Alive Guy" with nothing that actually leaves an impact on the series. But I'll leave it up to you all as always.
Edited by Echidna on Jan 21st 2023 at 7:15:27 AM
Professor Gigachad
Just from reading the writeup and seeing the other villains, man this guy is incredibly underwhelming. At first, I thought maybe his feeding people to monsters could help, but apparently, he isn't even the only one to do that and everyone else has him beaten in body count with equal or less resources.
I am saying cut for now, if someone has a really good argument maybe I will reconsider but for now that just seems far to little.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Leaning to cut the guy with his own scissors.
IPP Wick Check created.
An Eldritch Troper
Cut Kamen Rider Scissors.
Not feeling the Blue quote from Cognetic.
Edited by Draxterrus on Jan 21st 2023 at 10:08:12 PM
Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
Happy to see this is back.
I've unfortunately got a CM who seems a cut, and that's Ronald Taylor from Mass Effect 2. Here's the present write-up.
- Ronald Taylor is Jacob Taylor's father and cares only about himself. Serving as Acting Captain when his ship crashed on a remote planet, Ronald discovered the food on the planet caused neural decay in whoever ate it. Restricting the ship's rations to him and his officers before killing them, Ronald exiled all the men so that he could keep all the women as his own personal harem for years. Ronald eventually activated the distress beacon only to save himself after the men became dangerous, and when confronted on what he's done, Ronald only comes up with excuses on why he wasn't to blame.
No disputing that he degenerated into a selfish monster by the time you find him, but in the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC, we find in Jacob's file a letter from Ronald, and it's quite telling. You can look at it here, at the end of the page.
https://masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/Shadow_Broker_Dossiers/Jacob_Taylor
While the letter definitely gives off the feeling of regret, what stands out is that Ronald signs off by telling Jacob that he loves him and that he's proud of him, and there's no indication he's just putting up a facade.
So what does everyone think? As despicable as his actions were, I feel like this is a bit too disqualifying.
Was this written before or after Ronald went off the deep end ?
Edited by Beast on Jan 21st 2023 at 7:46:25 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Before, I would imagine. But I thought a CM can't at any point show love or regret?
Professor Gigachad
Unless there is something to specifically subvert that yeah it would be disqualifying regardless of when it happened, at least in my eyes.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
That does look disqualifying
That sounds disqualifying right there.
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
I might wait for someone else familiar to chime in.
IPP Wick Check created.
I was actually thinking about bringing up his entry too. While the game doesn't downplay how despicable his actions are, the game also doesn't delve away from the pressure put on him, his desperation in the early period of the crash, and his legitimate feelings. Maybe he could fit better under Moral Event Horizon for his later actions, but I think there's too much pathos to his character to be a Complete Monster.
Yeah, TBH, as bad as Ronald is...
I'm fine to cut him there, and the Kamen Rider example
Best Smile
Cut Scissors and Ronald Taylor
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Goku Black
Cut Scissors and Roland.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Keep Ares and Hopgood
Cut Scissors and Ronald
Not the Eye
Cut Ronald and Kamen Rider Scissors
Saw the Reincarnated as a Slime movie last night; I THINK the villain might qualify but I don't know enough about the franchise as a whole to evaluate whether or not he meets the HS. Would anyone be willing to tackle that?