To-do list:
- Sort any wicks for Courtroom Antic between the new pages (Courtroom Antics (with an added "s") and Unconventional Courtroom Tactics) if they apply; otherwise, remove them.
50 wicks were checked here, and the results are as follows:
- Correct: 7/50, or 14%
- Misuse, General Antics: 13/50, or 26%
- Misuse, Other: 3/50, or 6%
- Unsure: 4/50, or 8%
- ZCE: 23/50, or 46%
Now, obviously ZCEs are the biggest category here, but that's par for the course with a trope on the Time Immemorial Index. A lot of those examples boil down to "character engages in antics", which is too vague to have any meaning beyond "antics happen". For the ones I could get context out of, most of those were misuse, of the "antics happen" variety. Three of them were entirely irrelevant, either not taking place in the court or, in the case of one, not actually seeming like an antic at all. Then of course there were four I couldn't sort just due to the situation being vague enough to go either way.
What's to be done about this? There's not a ton of wicks, so a rename wouldn't be impossible, but I'm iffy on it. See, to my knowledge this is a real-life term, or at least one that sees some other search results beside TVT. If that's the case, we can't just rename the concept, and we can't just water the meaning down by broadening it while keeping the name in tact. Of course, if it's not a pre-existing term, then all bets are off, and either a rename or an expansion would be a solid plan of action here.
Whatever we do, the description could use some work. It, like a lot of ancient tropes, seems to prioritize style and comedy over actually describing the trope, which can't possibly help anyone to understand the definition. And if by some accident I've got the definition backwards, then the description still needs help to clarify that, and it would also mean the laconic is wrong.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Sep 23rd 2022 at 8:11:35 AM
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Or maybe Unorthodox Courtroom Behavior (or Unorthodox Courtroom Behaviour), replacing "Win" with "Behavio(u)r" to focus more on the actions than the outcome.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Jul 12th 2022 at 12:08:27 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Filthy casual
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I could get behind that.
Edited by TheUnsquished on Jul 12th 2022 at 6:10:39 PM
(Annoyed grunt)
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I'm a little worried that that would also just devolve into "people act silly in a court". Behavior is much broader.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
We could mix and match the first and third word in the "[adjective] Courtroom [noun]" format when the time comes to make a crowner, since it seems like there's support for having "Courtroom" as the second word.
Edit: Ninja'd, but we could leave "behavior" off the crowner and use words like "tactics" instead.
Edit: And we could mix and match adjectives with the "[adjective] Lawyering" format as well.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Jul 12th 2022 at 12:12:58 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
I do like tactics because that shows we're talking about stunts being pulled to do something(achieve victory ideally) rather than just weird stuff going down in the courtroom.
CSP Cleanup Thread | All that I ask for ... is diamonds and dance floors
Trans Siberian Anarchestra (it/they)
Filthy casual
Does [adjective] Lawyering have a chance of encouraging misuse? Such as lawyer shenanigans outside of the courtroom?
(Annoyed grunt)
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I never really thought of that. The definition of "lawyering"
refers to the practice of law, which I suppose isn't exclusive to court cases.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Jul 13th 2022 at 10:11:15 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I think we can call it and fire up the next crowner.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Calling in favor of using Courtroom Antics instead of Courtroom Antic for the supertrope when we do the Trope Transplant.
Do we already have enough names for what to call the trope for when a lawyer tries unorthodox methods to get a winning verdict?
Maybe the names I put in this post of mine and the ones I and other people posted after it could work; I don't think most of the names I put in the post I made directly before that one would work.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Jul 15th 2022 at 2:25:57 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I think we have enough. But no harm in waiting.
Edited by WarJay77 on Jul 15th 2022 at 1:12:58 PM
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I think you're right, especially after seeing how many options there are after putting the crowner together.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
She / Her
Plus, we can still add other options if we need to.
I voted up Unconventional Courtroom Tactics and downvoted the "Lawyering" options because x7 is correct, lawyering includes more than just arguing court cases. (I'm a paralegal)
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Calling in favor of Unconventional Courtroom Tactics. I'll turn it into a redirect for now so mod intervention isn't needed when it's time to do the transplant.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Alright, what do we have to do to get this transplant rolling?
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
The supertrope for wacky, outrageous court proceedings needs to have a description drafted (it could probably be done at Sandbox.Courtroom Antics, since we decided to call it Courtroom Antics with an S instead of Courtroom Antic without an S), and it wouldn't hurt to clarify the description of Unconventional Courtroom Tactics (probably at Sandbox.Unconventional Courtroom Tactics) to indicate that it's more about what a lawyer tries to do to get a favorable verdict than the verdict itself.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Jul 18th 2022 at 1:19:27 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
We might want to write both descriptions from scratch since the current... is bad.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
The Only Sane Gal
I agree. The current description is difficult to understand, and would likely lead to this same situation again.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
The description is actually why I didn't move the page right away. I figured sandboxing it would be ideal; I turned the new name into a redirect to save everyone a trip to the Locked Pages thread.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Well, I might throw something onto Sandbox.Courtroom Antics if nobody else does.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Okay, that sandbox has a description now. It's not perfect but it's something to start out with.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Has anyone done any work on Unconventional Courtroom Tactics? I mentioned Sandbox.Unconventional Courtroom Tactics as a potential location for a sandbox, but I was wondering if someone might have done it somewhere else (like a personal sandbox).
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 2nd 2022 at 3:46:46 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Crown Description:
Consensus was to move Courtroom Antic's current definition (unorthodox or even silly methods used in an attempt to win a court case) to a new name and reuse the name Courtroom Antics for a supertrope. What name should be used for Courtroom Antic's current definition after the old name is used for a supertrope?
If it's about the action and not the outcome, what about something like Unorthodox Lawyering, Unpredictable Lawyering, or Unusual Lawyering? Hopefully including "lawyer(ing)" doesn't lead to confusion with Bunny-Ears Lawyer, even if that trope isn't specifically about lawyers.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.