Filk Song and its incredibly problematic definition

While I was doing some research in wiki archives (Including the Wayback Machine), I discovered this wiki used to have namespaces for fan music under works, until they got removed for, I presume, justifiable reasons. Now, I've been looking for the wiki's actual take on fan music, as it already has articles on other Fan Works, including Fan Fiction and Fan Art. The closest thing I found was the article for Filk Song... and that's where things start to get weird. The page in question actually describes a specific niche trend in music from the second half of 20th century, going into details about Filk subculture and various aspects of proto-fan-music. The examples, and a good chunk of wicks, however, actually refer to modern fan songs, and/or songs about nerdy things outside of that community. The wiki cannot decide on what is what, and the description doesn't help much. Do you believe we should do something about it?

Many Filk singers enjoy poking fun at themselves. You'll find plenty of self-referential and self-depricating humour if you go to a Filk concert during a convention. I'm not sure what is the contradiction here.

It's because from this description, Filk seems to refer to proto-fan-music, and a large amount of on-page and out-of-page examples are modern fan music, which probably doesn't qualify for many elements in its rather inexact definition. Thats another big issue. The description isnt very clear. Normally, the reader should get the basic idea from the first paragraph. I already tried explaining my issue with it on ATT, and it seems to me people are missing my point.

Edited by AoeAbility on Feb 26th 2022 at 7:45:41 AM

This is similar to defining Science Fiction as the stuff created by Mary Shelley and Jules Verne, and describing how many people dismiss the genre due to the Sci Fi Ghetto. The description could use some repair, but it is not "proto-fan-music".

Edited by crazysamaritan on Feb 26th 2022 at 10:57:11 AM

I understand, and again, my mistake is caused by the issues I already presented. The biggest, as I already said, was that I'm not sure if all fan music qualifies as Filk, and if not, why isn't there a category of people who make fan music, but not in a way that corresponds to this oddly specific type of music.

I don't know. This description makes my head spin. And good descriptions shouldn't, As You Know.

Edited by AoeAbility on Feb 26th 2022 at 9:07:34 AM

Is there any evidence that the description is confusing anybody else? I find the page description pretty clear. It describes where the term came from for interest and historical purposes, yes. It also says what it is used to mean currently: fan oriented music, regardless of style. That's the current use.

I believe the description should explain what the trope means first, and describe its history second. Look at the article for Yandere, for instance. It first explains what the trope is, and THEN talks about its history. You get what I'm saying?

Edited by AoeAbility on Feb 28th 2022 at 8:50:35 AM

I agree, and I do my best to write my own trope descriptions in that manner. If you can't get across what the trope is about in two or three sentences, maybe it isn't actually a trope.

We first need to make sure if TRS action is needed.

You haven't provided any evidence, nor offered any reason, why TRS is needed. You are the only one "confused" by the definition of the page and everyone else appears in agreement that the description could use some fixing.

Changing an article's description is not a TRS action.

Understandable. Just wanted to make sure we all know what we're doing. Not everyone from the ATT I posted earlier knows about it.

Edited by AoeAbility on Feb 28th 2022 at 9:10:42 AM

So, has any progress been made in that regard? Just asking.

If you think a trope is really problematic and you badly want it fixed, the onus is on you to do at least some of the work for it.

1. If you want to keep the scope more or less the same, but just want to rewrite the description to flow better, you do not need TRS. You can pitch a rewrite in this thread and other people can give their thoughts on it.
2. If you want to do a more drastic change to the trope, like amending the scope or making it Fan Speak, then you will need to take it to TRS and do the legwork for that.