Duplicate Trope: Status Ailment

Some people think this is a duplicate with Status Effects, I say that there's enough neutral (simultaneously good and bad) Status Effects, that it should be split between Status Effects, Status Ailment, and Status Buff.

Previous Standard Status Effects thread, here.

Edited by Malady on Dec 5th 2021 at 6:14:14 AM

Unlocked but clocking due to weak OP (we want something more substantial than "some people think...").

Didn't that thread vote to merge it with Standard Status Effects? What went down?

I have a feeling the "I say that there's enough neutral" will provoke a wick check of sorts.

I've thought the issue was that these are too The Same, but More Specific for subtropes and should be merged into Status Effects, or a cleanup effort to be made to move post-rename Status Effects wicks to its subtropes.

Also, you're proposing to split the trope... to itself and the existing tropes... which is already how it is, so I don't understand what further actions are requested.

The Standard Status Effects thread did vote to merge Status Ailment with Standard Status Effects (23:1 according to the crowner) but I think people wanted Status Ailment to get its own thread.

Anyways yeah, we did need a wick check for this one. Personally, I don’t see any reason not to merge.

From a cursory glance it looks like we're partway there — the new SSE page mentions Status Ailment (not bluelinked), and Status Ailment's already been de-indexed. So was this just stopped in the middle of merging?

Edited by Synchronicity on Dec 5th 2021 at 9:28:43 AM

The Standard Status Effects TRS got closed because what was needed there (rename and moving wicks to Status Effects) was complete, I don't recall any actions about actually merging were made. Also I see that Status Buff and Status Ailment are blue linked at Status Effects (lower, in the list).

I'm still in favor of merging Status Ailment into Status Effects, but since this thread is proposing the opposite by claiming that there are enough neutral Status Effects examples to move negative and positive examples to Status Ailment and Status Buff, respectively, we're going to need a wick check that shows that said neutral examples exist, so I'm not going to vote either way unless we get one.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 5th 2021 at 12:20:48 PM

I think if we don't get sufficient evidence we should go ahead with the merge.

Yes, that.

I'm fine with doing that. Would the same be done with Status Buff, or are we leaving that out of this?

Edit: Status Buff has significantly more wicks than Status Ailment on top of having a proper example list, so maybe we can leave that one alone.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 5th 2021 at 12:46:50 PM

IMHO, if a good argument to keep it isn't presented, I think Status Ailment wicks could be moved to Status Effects, and Status Buff could be questioned in a separate TRS.

Edited by Amonimus on Dec 5th 2021 at 9:54:45 PM

That sounds like a good idea.

So, how many Neutral examples do you want? I know 2, and that one of those 2 is drawing inspiration from something...

Ah! The typical Berserk status! Shuts down all options, but Attack goes way up, usually.

We're asking for a Wick Check that sorts the examples by category.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 5th 2021 at 2:42:35 PM

You said: "we're going to need a wick check that shows that said neutral examples exist"

But if the goal is to find said "neutral examples"... A wick check of Status Ailment would not be where I'd go looking for them?

But okay... I'll start one here: Status Ailment Wick Check.

Edited by Malady on Dec 5th 2021 at 1:00:19 AM

As I keep reminding people, wick checks aren't just about misuse. They're about use in general. If they exist, a wick check is indeed how you'd find them.

A wick check of Status Effects, not Status Ailment, would be how you'd prove that there are neutral examples of the former. Sorry for not making that clear earlier.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 5th 2021 at 3:42:44 AM

I'd use the old Standard Status Effects wick check, but it seems it didn't exist, ah well.

Status Effects Wick check here: Status Effects Wick Check.

Note: Beneficial Disease is used for some statuses...

Edited by Malady on Dec 5th 2021 at 4:40:09 AM

Looking at the wick check and playing a fair share of RPGs, the term "status effects" is often used as a catch-all term to refer to Status Buff and Status Ailment together, i.e. the two ways someone's neutral status gets affected.

I don't really see a neutral use for the term, though. Like the main reason you'd apply a status effect is to either hurt/hinder the enemy or help/aid yourself/the team. Anything else can be captured by Non Standard Status Effect (ETA: i thought that was a trope, but it's not, whoops! Still recommend this)

I say split Status Effects into Status Buff and Status Ailment

Edited by amathieu13 on Dec 7th 2021 at 7:17:29 AM

We're still waiting for the wick check to see if a split is doable.

Ah, I saw Status Effects Wick Check and went off that but it does only have 17 wicks checked. Ok, but is still my general opinion on the matter

Edited by amathieu13 on Dec 7th 2021 at 7:16:00 AM

Is it checking 50 uses or 50 wicks?

Edited by Malady on Dec 7th 2021 at 5:29:50 AM

50 wicks. The completed wick check will show how the trope is being used.

Since the clock is about to expire and the wick check hasn't been completed, I was wondering if we should vote on whether to merge with Status Effects, as suggested here.

Probably.