On Yack Fest and Recent Events

Bumping again.

I don't know if bumping is very helpful in this case, patience is a virtue

Alright, bumping this because I found something relevant.

On this closed thread (which is about a troper disliking French Jerk), Fighteer said that any negativity or complaining threads can go to Yack Fest. I'm guessing the rules regarding complaining didn't follow through? If so, does that mean complaining threads are allowed on Yack Fest?

No. This got closed down fairly quickly. And I know of other threads that have been locked for complaining too.

Yeah, I was talking about "chat" topics in general, not complaining threads specifically. I worded the post unclearly.

Let's just hope the forum rules get a bit of an update lest the Hangout Thread would go in the way of TANG and Trash Heap.

Is the conversation regarding feeling discomfort in certain forums still ongoing or are we past that? I have my own opinion to put in, but if I've missed the chance then I'll keep it to myself.

I'm interested,please share your experience

I'm...probably the opposite of a lot of people here, in that I pretty much exclusively frequent the right side of the forum. Mostly Forum Games. Like, a lot. I'm not in any Discords or anything, though, and I don't tend to take part in the roleplay threads or the threads that require you to know a lot about others. I just hang around Forum Games cos it's light-hearted fun and I like it. I don't feel like we make people unwelcome. I think we try to be welcoming, and if someone doesn't know how to play someone will try to show them.

So I actually get the opposite feeling about where I'm welcome and where I'm not. I don't go on the left side much because I don't know how the places work. I don't know the rules. I try to post in OTC from time to time but I never stay there long and I almost always end up regretting it because that's the place that makes me feel left out. I feel like it's mostly the same people, I see a lot of the same names, they all talk like they know each other and you're supposed to know everyone. I feel like I don't know the unwritten rules, and I'm always afraid to say much because I'm worried someone will take offense to what I say.

I also feel like you're meant to know the general...accepted opinion, I guess? of a given thread before you go in. And I'm not good at that.

This is just my experience, though. I'm sure it's different for other people.

Sorry again if this isn't the right time to say this.

It's really not as bad as you think. Just pick a few topics on OTC that interest you to start with, see if you can find something interesting to post about the subject, or just join in a discussion right away. Don't worry too much about introducing yourself or fitting in, people are generally very welcoming and helpful to newcomers.

Oh, I do know people can be very welcoming, and I have had good experiences there and all. I've just also had bad ones, and I thought it might be useful to the discussion to give my perspective as someone from the "other side", I guess.

Edited by Murataku on Apr 14th 2021 at 10:25:18 PM

Can you give a more specific example?

Unfortunately I can't remember any of them in detail since they happened a fair while ago and I've mostly just dropped in and out ever since, but I've had people use opinions I expressed to make assumptions and have a go at me personally, someone continued to quote and attack and pick apart one sentence I said long after I'd left the discussion entirely, there was a discussion about male rape victims in one of the threads that got uncomfortably close to downplaying the severity of a victim's trauma, and if I'm being honest in the US Politics thread dehumanising language and harsh generalisations of huge groups of people seem to just run rampant.

As I’ve admired before OTC can get pretty jumpy around new people. We’ve draw a lot of trolls over the years and have had to deal with all sorts of supremacists dropping in.

I’m probably one of the OTC regulars that’s been around the longest (I started posting in OTC during the Arab Spring, over a decade ago) and it’s certainly true that there’s a ton of history between the posters there. I could reel of a list of what topics get which posters to disregard reason and get emotional and even which posters I saw do/say things years ago that I keep in mind whenever I see them post. There are posters in OTC who I'm pretty blunt with because I’ve had the same argument with them for years, also often because I’m trying to prevent them saying something stupid and getting themselves a ban (again in many instances).

If this was the Men’s Issues thread and several years back then I think I know who you’re talking about. For a long time there was a poster in the thread who didn’t believe there was such a thing as gendered issues that impacted men and should be addressed from the perspective of helping men.

If memory serves they either got banned or were told off enough by the mods that they stooped participating. I certainly remember fighting with them for what I believe was years. Amusingly I considered them a prime example of both the barriers men face having their suffering acknowledged and proof that the obstruction mainly comes from men (the poster in question was male).

I suspect what you’re seeing there is talk about groups as a collective that’s not intended to be applied to every individual in that group but is a statement about how they act as a collective. There’s also the loose language issues that’s popped up particularly in the Russia and Israel threads over the years. Where people will use the name of a country or political party when making a statement and the intention is that they’re talking about the government/leadership/elected representatives of that group but people are lazy and don’t want to type “The Russian government” every time and instead say “Russia”.

I specifically try to add my qualifiers when talking about Israel and Russia, but even I don’t bother in all instances when talking about groups.

I feel I should note that those are two different things. Personal attacks are a violation of the rules and people should and do get thumped for them (though rule breakers are a common enough occurrence in OTC that a level of dealing with it until the mods arrive is required).

Arguments being picked apart however is part of discussion, that’s part of having conversations about serious topics. Sometimes people do just say things without thinking and generally if you’re willing to say “Yeah I wasn’t thinking when I said that, I now understand I was wrong” people will let it go (though some people do have difficult with that).

This is a good point, even if there aren’t unwritten rules if we’re making it seem like there are then that’s a problem. Do we have a Herald for OTC? Someone who could act as a guide for people who want to poke around the area but are afraid of getting their head bitten off?

Edited by Silasw on Apr 15th 2021 at 11:06:37 AM

Well, in these cases you should definitely holler a mod, and you could always approach the mods with any issues. We also have a thread here where you can bring up problematic behaviour.

And the herald for OTC is Best Of. No idea if they're still active, though.

Edited by Redmess on Apr 15th 2021 at 12:53:58 PM

Cheers for such a detailed, thought-out answer. I don't have a lot to say in response other than I'll keep what you said in mind when I poke around there. I can see why people might be jumpy with newcomers given how serious some topics can be. And yeah, we're probably thinking the same guy.

Cheers for the link. I didn't know that thread was a thing. And yeah, I'll remember to call mods if I need them.

Edited by Murataku on Apr 15th 2021 at 9:03:49 PM

Yeah, admittedly, I avoid OTC altogether because it scares me and seems a lot more intense and serious than the rest of the wiki. As left out as I can sometimes feel in the Forum Games section, I know I'd never feel comfortable in OTC either.

If you feel nervous about it, you can always start with the non-political topics.

It's not that, I just don't feel like I'd enjoy the atmosphere or the seriousness of the discussions, nor would I enjoy the sheer size of the threads. I used to get nervous just posting on the CM thread, I'm just not cut out for OTC. Maybe it's because I've got a negative mental image of the place, similar to how some right-siders see the left-side, but I just can't imagine myself enjoying being there.

What about the size of a thread makes it non-enjoyable? That’s not a perspective I’ve encountered before.

Social anxiety combined with the feeling of being an intruding newbie to a well-established community, that's what. It's probably just a personal issue, but it is an issue for me, and it's why I can't imagine myself fitting in over at OTC. I'd just feel out of place the whole time.

Hmmm, I suspect that I’ve actually been posting in OTC so long that I don’t think of the community as that well established. I can think of many former regulars who don’t post anymore, that’s before factoring in all the former regulars who got themselves banned after crossing the line to many times. OTC very much does cycle people and have new people come in.

We get new people in OTC all the time. It's totally fine as long as you don't burst in the front door and start telling people what's what. Asking questions is a good place to start. Pick a topic that interests you and hop in. Just try not to do it in the middle of a heated debate.

Ask something about rockets in the Space thread, for example. Please, it's what gives me a sense of purpose and self-worth.

Edited by Fighteer on Apr 15th 2021 at 8:51:20 AM

Oh, I'm sure that's true. Again, I'm aware that my concerns are more irrational than anything, but stepping out of my comfort zone is hard and I'd probably feel overwhelmed by it all, at least at first.

I guess it just goes to show though, with how isolated the different forums could be, people not wanting to venture out of their corner is a real problem, and it makes the other sides feel a bit more alien, with tropers you might not know and a culture you wouldn't know either.

I do post on FG and YF from time to time, but I never really felt like I could call myself a "Right-Sider" because I feel so much more "at home" on the left, and the threads at least feel more comfortable for me to post in. On TRS or Projects I never feel like I'm out of place or like posting might be a bad idea because nobody really knows me, which as discussed before, is sometimes still a problem for me with Forum Games and Yack Fest, partially because I don't frequent those places enough to really know anybody there on the same level as they know each other. And with OTC, I'm sure if I actually checked it out I might enjoy it, but getting to that step itself can be difficult for me, and maybe only me, but I know others have had similar issues with TRS and Projects, where I'm most comfortable.

TL;DR: I do think the opposing cultures within the forums creates too much culture clash at times and can make people scared to check out the other parts of the forums, even if they're just as welcoming and fun.

Edited by WarJay77 on Apr 15th 2021 at 8:57:14 AM

The reason I almost never go to OTC is a mix of "too many posts to read" and the fact that I, personally, come to TV Tropes to get away from the heavy stuff I see on social media.